Some tips for hidden systems, planets ?

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:57 pm

Well I failed at finding some hidden planet. So I used the Map on Junholt for this to help myself.

But I wish I didn't as I feel that I was cheating.

How to proceed to search for hidden planets or systems without cheating ?

I found nothing in the official manual that can help .
Some tips or hints would be greatly appreciated.

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:48 am

yeah i faced the exact same problem. I ended up looking around which systems there were hidden ones on the Junholt map. Finally i actually looked one up precisely. On the way back from this one though i did find a planet and then there was a distress call to a planet i knew wasn't in the known systems and i wrote down the coordinates and found that. So far though that's all i got. Sometimes i wonder when there's nebulaes far off if i head that way but then for all i know these are nebulaes of known systems. And sure you can see a star a few sectors away but not far enough that you wouldn't see it on your map anyway...

Completely random explorations is a bit too trying for me. You could go one way for hours and never find anything. I could throw my arms up, decide there's nothing that way, turn back and end up having been like two sectors away from a hidden system. When do you know you've looked enough? I have a bit of an explorer's mind but not THAT much. I'd rather it not be a complete crapshoot if possible.... At least i know in the coming expansion you'll be able to buy info from NPC's which i believe will include the location of hidden systems.

BvP · Post by **BvP** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:12 am

To find uncharted planets fairly reliably:

First get Atollski's nav log and get familiar using it for navigation/charting (I think v1.0 is working better for me than 1.01).
Here is a navdata.txt file that I removed the spoilers/uncharted systems from.

Then grab 'A Book of Hints and Tips' and go to chapter 'Exploration I - Finding New systems' and read the bit entitled 'Trilateration' (I think Marvin wrote it), this method works well for me.

Once you get the hang of it, it is not difficult to do, but I suggest you get familiar with using Atollski's program before you try using the trilateration function.

[Edited on 2-29-2012 by BvP]

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:12 am

Hi Munshine.

I always use Trilateration. Either with Atollskis Navdata or using pen and paper drawing circles.
Read the manual BvP mentioned above. If you need further explanation I'll be happy to help you.

Also a hint provided by MiaZ might help you. Look at your hull in 3rd person view and check the
light/shadows to see where the closest star is. Leaving a system and finding a new star will change
the light/shadow reflections on your hull.

Good luck!

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:50 am

From post: 132154, Topic: tid=9019, author=SeeJay wrote:I always use Trilateration. Either with Atollskis Navdata or using pen and paper drawing circles.

Originally, I tried triangulation after realizing that the Navigation map always displayed a "system name" for whatever planet was closest. Then SeeJay convinced me to use "circle trilateration" ... an exercise in geometry which made it much easier to picture (in my negatronic head) what was going on (computation-wise) when I switched over to Atollski's Nav Tracker.

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:27 am

Navigation map always displays a "system name" for whatever planet is in that system but this is not necessarily the closest planet to your current position.

The closest star to current position doesn't have much to do with the system name either.

Where there is a star you will find a group of systems all close together with each system named differently depending on the planet in that system.
The star will be at the cross roads of all these systems.

Finding the star using visual clues is the easy part.

Finding the planets that are NOT close near to the star or
finding planets by following the system name, then trilateration, Atollskis Navdata is very useful.
-

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:14 am

Hi guys,

Junholt is awesome and I think you guys have done an amazing work with it. Junholt's guides and tools are greatly helpful. I must thank you for the help you provide.

My mistake was to think that Atollski's mod would spoil me the game and I'm glad it won't as you still need to use the Trilateration method.

Too bad that I didn't keep searching for this hidden planet as I was close to find it at a few SY sectors away.

Thank you for the hints and the tips.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:39 am

You are welcome mate.

Not all stuff on my site is my own creations. I simply created the DataBase for the map
by exploring and getting reports from other explorers.

Others have created programs and documents that I host for them.

I use Atollskis Navdata with an empty file when I start and enter the planets that I will use
for the area that I will be searching in.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:34 pm

After a while, I'm more and more familar with Atollski's Map log and I'm beginning to enter some planets and stuff.

But I'm a little confused with the Trilateration function .
Basically, what I understand from Trilateration theory it's calculating coordinates knowing distances between 3 objects. Each object is a circle's center . Each circle is intersecting with the other creating a crossing line (or border).

At the moment I'm trying to search again for the hidden planet using Trilateration ...
<< Caution spoiler >>
...with hints given after the IMG quest in the Pearl System.
At the edge of the planet Oasis, there is sometimes 200 sectors before getting to an unkown system in the SZ axis. But it doesn't seem to be a border in the SX axis

[Edited on 3-1-2012 by Munshine]

countjimula · Post by **countjimula** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:47 am

One easy way to find unknown planets is to follow the distress calls. They are not always in known areas.

Sorry if this was already said.

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:24 am

From post: 132146, Topic: tid=9019, author=Raynor wrote:And sure you can see a star a few sectors away but not far enough that you wouldn't see it on your map anyway...
Completely random explorations is a bit too trying for me. You could go one way for hours and never find anything.

A little example of my technique at finding stars.

Keep a close look at the part of the cockpit just along the front ledge above the radar and to the left and right sides of the mfds.
Star behind me I am flying away in search of new system.
<a href="http://s865.photobucket.com/albums/ab21 ... behind.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab21 ... behind.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

After jumping about 200 sectors,
Suddenly the light changes.
Here it is coming from the left.

Using that ledge above the radar and to the left and right of the mfds,
I aim for the star.
I keep jumping forwards ALT F2 until I jump past it. When that happens the light will suddenly change again.

Light changes again now its to my right.

Now I open the navmap.

-
I hope this helps the semi explorers like me who want to stubble across something rather than do any search pattens or trilaterations.
As a start you could try from 0,0,0 keep jumping north and you will see there is a system just north west, very easy to find using this method.

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by MiaZ]

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:54 am

MiaZ's method helps you find stars. Using that method, when I do find a star, I then spiral outward until I find planets. Notice that in MiaZ's example, the Nav map indicates system K434 ... that's the closest planet. But, as you spiral out, you might work yourself away from planet K434 and toward a different planet in the same system ... at which time the System name on the Nav map will change. Keep track of the System names and you'll get some idea as to how many planets are in the system.

Trilateration helps you find the planets. It tracks the crossover points between one planet and one or more other planets ... then calculates the location of the planet in question.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:56 am

Miaz, your technique is very interesting indeed and I'm sure it will be useful, thanks for sharing it.

caution spoiler !!!
Marvin, I've read carefully your instructions at finding news systems/planets. Yesterday I started again from Serene B planet instead of Oasis as it was at the Pearl System outer edge on the SX axis. I jumped to some 50 SX sectors away until I found an unknown system. After entering this discovery in the Map log, I clicked on the New Unchartered System Notification and went back and forth until I found the right sector next to the unknown system.

Then I clicked on the Attempt Trilaleration menu but it did nothing. I tried to go along the border between the Serene system and the unknown System. But soon after only 2 ou 3 sectors down away on the SZ axis, I found another unknown system that I entered immediatly. Tried again Attempt Trilateration but nothing occured .

I don't understand what went wrong with Trilateration function as the Serene/Serene B planet and two unknown systems/planets were Map log's entries (planet icons).
I also don't understand why the Map log window didn't toggle for the last finding as New Unchartered Notification menu was ticked

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by Munshine]

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:51 pm

Before I used the trilateration method, I used graph paper and a pencil, plotting out the borders between the system (planet) being hunted and known planets (very important: you need to use a border between a known planet and your target planet). It made it easier to picture, in my head, how trilateration worked.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:33 pm

Nice Pictures and explanation using light reflections. Only works tough having cockpit mode on, which I usualy have not for a clear unobstructed view
of the beautifull Evochron Universe!.....

:P

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:37 pm

I've played too many space games with no or almost no cockpits:D. If i can't see the cockpit, i lose 50% of the immersion factor. (like i can't understand people who play with a 3rd person view). I just wish i could map cockpit view on one of the two axis of my gamepad (though even if i could, i probably wouldn't because there's too many controls to map to the axis already)

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:03 am

With cockpit mode of you still have first player HUD view and nothing but your HUD is dispalyed! which is Ideal for me!....

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:28 am

From post: 132303, Topic: tid=9019, author=Maarschalk wrote:Nice Pictures and explanation using light reflections. Only works tough having cockpit mode on, which I usualy have not for a clear unobstructed view
of the beautifull Evochron Universe!.....:P

I only used the default cockpit because it is best for showing this
and makes it easier to see and explain.
Some of the cockpit mods aren't so easy to use though, so if exploring I do a quick switch to default pit.

But even without a pit the same thing can be done by stitching to 3rd person view or
you can even switch to external view between jumps.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:02 am

From post: 132302, Topic: tid=9019, author=Marvin wrote: Before I used the trilateration method, I used graph paper and a pencil, plotting out the borders between the system (planet) being hunted and known planets (very important: you need to use a border between a known planet and your target planet). It made it easier to picture, in my head, how trilateration worked.

I've noticed during your explanation that it seems in the screenshot that you take a Sirius Star System as an example.

Have Sirius A and Sirius B to be childs from a parent star in a Sirius system node ?
Can you just use the Trilateration method when you aren't in game and one of the childs is selected ?
(Note: my tree with sirius planets is different than in your example and Trilateration didn't work either)

Is it possible that the hidden planet I'm looking for is so far away from a star system or from a known planet that it's in a lone system and then Trilateration method couldn't work ?

[Edited on 3-3-2012 by Munshine]

[Edited on 3-3-2012 by Munshine]

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:49 am

Distance isn't that important. What is important is that you use accurate coordinates for your known planet(s). It/they are your reference point(s). At every crossover, you know that you're halfway between a set of known coordinates and a set you're trying to find. Ergo, if you're a long way from your known planet (reference point) at crossover, then the planet you're trying to find will also be a long way off. In fact, the two planets will be an equal distance from you ... in different directions.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:55 am

Btw, the example (and the "light source" technique) belongs to MiaZ.

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:20 am

From post: 132369, Topic: tid=9019, author=Munshine wrote: I've noticed during your explanation that it seems in the screenshot that you take a Sirius Star System as an example.

If you're talking about the screen shot in this thread that I posted,
then that was not anywhere near Sirius.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:53 am

No, I was talking about this one :

As I'm not sure if there is something wrong with my mod's installation, maybe a good training would be to attempt Trilateration in Sirius System.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:15 pm

1. You depart Planet A, heading about west-southwest.

2. At some point, your Navigation Map shows you in a new system: Planet B.

3. At this point, you turn on the Nav Tracker.

4. Crossing back and forth, you find the exact sector where Planet B borders on Planet A.

5. Returning to Planet A space, you flip a coin to see which way to go:

Head toward the known planet (Planet A) along a cardinal heading.
Ergo, in the example, you can head either north or east.
You decide to go north.

6. Sooner or later, you should find yourself back in the Planet B system.

7. Continue to follow the border (between Planet A and Planet B) for about 150 to 200 sectors.

8. Make sure Nav Tracker is still on.

9. Again, cross back and forth until you find the exact sector where Planet B borders Planet A.

At this point, the Nav Tracker program can compute the location of Planet B ... in the horizontal. The planet will be on the side opposite a line drawn through the two crossing points ...

... perpendicular to the line, at a distance equal to the distance from Planet A to the line.

If you want to be more accurate, you can climb along the Y axis about 150 sectors and find the crossing point in the vertical. Usually, though, planets are on or near 0 degrees in the vertical.

Now, the Nav Tracker program has the data it needs. You can attempt trilateration.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:40 pm

■ Head toward the known planet (Planet A) along a cardinal heading.

That's the procedure I use. But, as you can see in the 4th diagram, a border crossing can be found anywhere along the red line. So, if going toward the known planet takes you into the space of a third (known or unknown) planet, you might want to double back and try any of the other three cardinal headings.