A BIG THANKS and a couple of questions

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:04 pm

Hello everyone,

first of all, VICE, a BIG thank you for this game. I stumbled on it a couple of days ago on youtube while browsing new Privateer Gemini Gold videos. (and with this I'm giving you a marketing info

)

I'm really enjoying it and I possess ALL merchantile space simulations, I must say that Legends found its place in the TOP FIVE along with Elite II Frontier and Privateer (and no, X3 is not there

Too complicated and has no planet landings).

In my opinion there are several elements that make a trade space sim successful, and you scored 4 of 5. What is missing is station / planets locales, ala Freelancer. Even static images would be moody, I really hope for a new Evochron

I have some questions however, I would be very glad if you could answer them:

1) Range of view.

Sometimes distant elements are visibile, sometimes they popup out of nowhere, very close.

Once, during an approach to a solar system, I saw first a moon appear in the distance ( just a dot bigger than the stars). Then, after a halfway, the sun appeared, already BIG, and in the end, once the moon filled my view, the main planet popped out. BIG.

Is it a design limitation? I mean, since this game is focusing on realism (as far as it is possibile), this is quite a strange behaviour.

Again, I noticed it only because everything else is great.

2) Why am I not safe while docked in the hostile territories? In some places it becomes frustrating. It took me 1 hour of trials in order to dock in the main station in the Emerald system and sell my stuff, and then RUN AWAY.

3) Why there are no new military fighters flying around, like Wraith or Predator? Every Navy ship I encounter is a civilian one. Are these new ships only for the players?

4) This is a pure curiosity: would it be possibile, in future relases, to increase the scale of the planets? I ask it because the planets seems very small, even when I touchdown I can see the curve of the horizont. What do you think?

Thank for your time! Now I'm getting back to the game.

Koranis

[Edited on 6-19-2009 by Koranis]

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:15 pm

Originally posted by Koranis
2) Why am I not safe while docked in the hostile territories? In some places it becomes frustrating. It took me 1 hour of trials in order to dock in the main station in the Emerald system and sell my stuff, and then RUN AWAY.

You've got that down.

You've just learned one of the recommended techniques when trading in hostile territories.

Vice and our other members will be along to offer more tips and answer your other questions.

Welcome aboard!!! Here you are family.

-Knight

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:21 pm

Thank you for the warm welcome!

I have a ton of other questions, but I'll wait patiently

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:34 pm

Hi Koranis, welcome to the forum and the Sim.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:09 pm

Probably military fighters are in war zones.... not in common systems.

Post by **Vice** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:28 pm

Hello and welcome.

In my opinion there are several elements that make a trade space sim successful, and you scored 4 of 5. What is missing is station / planets locales, ala Freelancer. Even static images would be moody

Probably won't be including static imagery or other suspended stage. Fully real time seamless interactive gameplay is a pretty significant part of this game's design. However, with the new varied city scape option being added to the game, new variations on city appearances may be implemented at some point.

1) Range of view.

Sometimes distant elements are visibile, sometimes they popup out of nowhere, very close.

Once, during an approach to a solar system, I saw first a moon appear in the distance ( just a dot bigger than the stars). Then, after a halfway, the sun appeared, already BIG, and in the end, once the moon filled my view, the main planet popped out. BIG.

Is it a design limitation? I mean, since this game is focusing on realism (as far as it is possibile), this is quite a strange behaviour.

Again, I noticed it only because everything else is great.

That is strange behavior. Which solar system? Could be two primary objects are too close together and they are updating at the required rendering distances. Although less likely, it could also be a clipping issue.

2) Why am I not safe while docked in the hostile territories? In some places it becomes frustrating. It took me 1 hour of trials in order to dock in the main station in the Emerald system and sell my stuff, and then RUN AWAY.

Because you're in hostile territories. Docking does not equal permanent safety in this game. You are 'more' safe while docked, as most hostile ships will stick with guns to attack you and they may wait for your outside for a while, just taking a few shots at you occasionally. But you'll want to learn tactics on making the area safe before you dock, then quickly completing any buying/selling/contract reviews. Other tactics include using the station's central hangar pylon for cover, right clicking on the station's nav map icon to plot a jump point directly to the hangar (then with pitch at 0, jumping directly into the hangar), and once you acquire one, dock while cloaked.

3) Why there are no new military fighters flying around, like Wraith or Predator? Every Navy ship I encounter is a civilian one. Are these new ships only for the players?

In civilian systems, there can be many civilian ships allied with the Navy. You are marked the same way to other ships while you're on a contract for them (and even in between if you've been working for them). Military combat spacecraft are generally reserve for military war zones and then they often stay close to their carrier. If you want to watch some of those ships fly around, hang out near one of the carriers in a war zone.

4) This is a pure curiosity: would it be possibile, in future relases, to increase the scale of the planets? I ask it because the planets seems very small, even when I touchdown I can see the curve of the horizont. What do you think?

They may be varied at some point, but the overall size has been established based on feedback. From previous discussions about it:

The idea of fully realistically sized planets was done away with back around 2006 when Arvoch was released. There were too many problems with long descent times and atmospheric travel distances that their size was compromised to be between fully realistic and the marbles in the original Evochron. The current size has generally received the fewest complaints and most positive feedback.

... the size of planets has been balanced between being too small/unrealistic taking only a few seconds to descend and too large taking 10-20 minutes to descend. The current setup seems to generally get the fewest complaints with just occasional, relatively evenly numbered, 'they're too big' and 'they're too small' comments, so it's probably just about right for most players. A typical no-burn angled descent can take about 2-3 minutes, which seems to work out well for most and offers the intended tactical and resource recovery options.

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:58 pm

Thanks for answering so quickly!

Probably won't be including static imagery or other suspended stage. Fully real time seamless interactive gameplay is a pretty significant part of this game's design. However, with the new varied city scape option being added to the game, new variations on city appearances may be implemented at some point.

To be honest, I meant singular locations, like es. bar, shipyard, etc. Instead of doing everything from an UI, actually "move" around. Of course, I'm thinking about something simple and possible to implement.

That is strange behavior. Which solar system? Could be two primary objects are too close together and they are updating at the required rendering distances. Although less likely, it could also be a clipping issue.

Sapphire. I was enjoying sublight trip between the two stars, between Erato planets and Sapphire itself. The planets do not disapper and appear in the distance during the approach, rather pop out suddenly at shorter distances. This happens most of the time and in every system.

They may be varied at some point, but the overall size has been established based on feedback. From previous discussions about it:

The idea of fully realistically sized planets was done away with back around 2006 when Arvoch was released. There were too many problems with long descent times and atmospheric travel distances that their size was compromised to be between fully realistic and the marbles in the original Evochron. The current size has generally received the fewest complaints and most positive feedback.

... the size of planets has been balanced between being too small/unrealistic taking only a few seconds to descend and too large taking 10-20 minutes to descend. The current setup seems to generally get the fewest complaints with just occasional, relatively evenly numbered, 'they're too big' and 'they're too small' comments, so it's probably just about right for most players. A typical no-burn angled descent can take about 2-3 minutes, which seems to work out well for most and offers the intended tactical and resource recovery options.

Oh no

I'll have to try Arvoch then.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:05 am

Arvoch, Renegades and finally Legends are awesome.
You have to play both sequel imho. You'll like them.

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:39 am

The planets are of different sizes or is just my impression? Some of those seem bigger than others....

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:29 pm

I tried the demo of Arvoch Conflict, and the first thing I did was planet landing

That what I mean when I said the planet should be bigger!!

Anyway, congrats, even if the overall presentation and the ship models are a little rudimental (planets are beautiful though), the actual combat gave me a thrill that not even WC3 managed to give me!

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:06 pm

Glad you liked it!:)

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:14 pm

Yeah, I'm considering a purchase. The only reason I'm still "considering" is because on Day 1, when I discovered Evochron Renegades, I tried it and bought it once the demo expired. An hour later, when I was browsing the forums looking for advice I realized that Legends was actually the LATEST instalment... I could not resist so I bought Legends as well, on Day 1.

We are on Day 5 now and I still have to enjoy the Legends properly.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:23 pm

I can assure you my friend, it will take more than 5 days for you to discover all that Legends has to offer!
You could play for a lifetime and not visit all the systems!

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:09 pm

I have been playing Renegades and Legends for 4 moths and visited all systems but probably only about 1/20 of all Stations, Planets, Moons, Astroid Caves, Hidden containers and Hidden objects.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:22 am

Originally posted by Maarschalk
I have been playing Renegades and Legends for 4 moths and visited all systems but probably only about 1/20 of all Stations, Planets, Moons, Astroid Caves, Hidden containers and Hidden objects.

Lol.

1/20? Rofl

:P:P

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:42 pm

Originally posted by warsign
Originally posted by Maarschalk
I have been playing Renegades and Legends for 4 moths and visited all systems but probably only about 1/20 of all Stations, Planets, Moons, Astroid Caves, Hidden containers and Hidden objects.
Lol.

1/20? Rofl :P:P

Yup, and now that I have achieved most of my goals, I'm going to relax and explore the rest! LOL:P

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:45 pm

I bought Arvoch Conflict. I could not resist. SHUCKS! Now I'm playing both games at the same time!

(ehm, I broke my right ankle so I have a lot of freetime now....I work only 2 hours per day!

)

anyway.... Vice, you're pretty much a drug dealer!

From now on whatever you produce I'll be there.

[Edited on 6-23-2009 by MMaggio]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:17 pm

LOL:P:P:P

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:11 am

Originally posted by Koranis
I bought Arvoch Conflict. I could not resist. SHUCKS! Now I'm playing both games at the same time!

(ehm, I broke my right ankle so I have a lot of freetime now....I work only 2 hours per day! )

anyway.... Vice, you're pretty much a drug dealer! From now on whatever you produce I'll be there.

So funny. Rofl

Buy Evochron products like t-shirts, hats. Good feeling while playing both games

[Edited on 6-24-2009 by warsign]

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:42 pm

I mean litterally. I have two PCs, one in front of me and one behind me. The one behind me is a single core but it's more than enough to play AC at maximum.

So, it's a matter of turning around, according to mood.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:44 pm

Awesome!

Koranis · Post by **Koranis** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:00 pm

It's the first time I use them in this way, I might add!

When you get to much freetime on your hands you get creative....

xman1 · Post by **xman1** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:09 pm

Originally posted by Vice

4) This is a pure curiosity: would it be possibile, in future relases, to increase the scale of the planets? I ask it because the planets seems very small, even when I touchdown I can see the curve of the horizont. What do you think?
They may be varied at some point, but the overall size has been established based on feedback. From previous discussions about it:

The idea of fully realistically sized planets was done away with back around 2006 when Arvoch was released. There were too many problems with long descent times and atmospheric travel distances that their size was compromised to be between fully realistic and the marbles in the original Evochron. The current size has generally received the fewest complaints and most positive feedback.

... the size of planets has been balanced between being too small/unrealistic taking only a few seconds to descend and too large taking 10-20 minutes to descend. The current setup seems to generally get the fewest complaints with just occasional, relatively evenly numbered, 'they're too big' and 'they're too small' comments, so it's probably just about right for most players. A typical no-burn angled descent can take about 2-3 minutes, which seems to work out well for most and offers the intended tactical and resource recovery options.

Maybe make this an option in the setup screen to us people that enjoy trying to get as close to reality as we possibly can get? It just looks weird having a space station that looks almost as big as the planet. I'm fine with getting where I am going at a slower pace too in an attempt at reality.

Also, if someone wants to mine valuable metals off a planets surface, then you have to pay the price to get there!

Another idea is to remove the speed cap on ships. You thrust and then come to a complete stop regardless that the afterburner is held down? Maybe a better way to simulate this is ever decreasing acceleration. Have acceleration start off hard and strong, and then as speed increases, have it slow up until there is no increase. That would feel real.

My ideal space game would be a mix of this and Independence War II. That is the holy grail in my opinion, though that may not count for much around here.

One more idea, maybe make jumps consume massive quantities of fuel. Maybe 100 units? Right now, I can explore the Universe without using my fuel at all by never going into IDS and just jumping everywhere. That part just feels a bit wrong too.

-X

[Edited on 6-24-2009 by xman1]

Post by **Vice** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:43 pm

Maybe make this an option in the setup screen to us people that enjoy trying to get as close to reality as we possibly can get? It just looks weird having a space station that looks almost as big as the planet. I'm fine with getting where I am going at a slower pace too in an attempt at reality.

You can't have 'two different realities' in a multiplayer game. The universe has to have finite rules and parameters for all players for fair gameplay. Stations are no where near as big as planets, although they may appear that way if you don't account for distance and you're closer to the station.

Also, if someone wants to mine valuable metals off a planets surface, then you have to pay the price to get there!

You do, watch how much you have to pay in resources to get there and back and observe the deduction from what you make selling the material(s) you mine. That cost is about as high as I'm willing to make it right now, unless/until enough players want to make it even higher.

Another idea is to remove the speed cap on ships.

Take a read through the other threads on this topic for points on both sides, pros and cons.

You thrust and then come to a complete stop regardless that the afterburner is held down?

Not in this game. The afterburner will override the input from the IDS and will continue to increase your speed. Turn off the IDS for even faster afterburner acceleration.

Maybe a better way to simulate this is ever decreasing acceleration. Have acceleration start off hard and strong, and then as speed increases, have it slow up until there is no increase. That would feel real.

That's close to how it works now for military burn (cruise). The taper could be added to the afterburner maximum as well for such a reaction.

My ideal space game would be a mix of this and Independence War II. That is the holy grail in my opinion, though that may not count for much around here.

It all depends on the specifics

One more idea, maybe make jumps consume massive quantities of fuel. Maybe 100 units? Right now, I can explore the Universe without using my fuel at all by never going into IDS and just jumping everywhere. That part just feels a bit wrong too.

You use fuel based on how far you jump. If you jump 100 sectors, you'll typically burn at least around 100 units of fuel. So you can't currently explore the universe without using your fuel, unless you're using an exploit I'm not aware of.

[Edited on 6-24-2009 by Vice]