Possible small additions?

[matchbox2022]

I had one small and larger feature request only if possible and not too time consuming.

Bigger request first
I was curious about the possibility of comets. Basically a "very large" ice asteroid which has an ionized halo and particles of glowing gas streaming off for a few kms while moving throughout a system (making it super visible)....preferably in actual orbit of a star passing by a planet..where it would naturally speed up a lot. I figured that if I can get a ship into orbit, or even to follow waypoints....and if asteroids can move as in the meteor intercept contract this could be done too.They could be viewed from a distance as a typical comet would be from earth perhaps and with various colour tails....it is outer space, who knows, some could have red tails, green, or even just plain jane blue.
The nicer part beyond eye candy and an added space object would be an actual contract involving the comet once and a while.

I was thinking perhaps there could be a science contract where you scan the comet, then need to deflect it slightly so it doesn't create an issue with "shipping lanes, planetary collisions, etc". This scan contract would have perhaps 2 or 3 outcomes, one where you need to deflect it with a disruptor blast, one where you need to collect a sample since its a "rare material" for analysis, a third optional could be where you would need a deployable shield around another science vessel to assist it from the ionized particles.
Just a thought and a good use for the disruptor or for the eye candy.

Haha, whew, now that that's out of the way,
Smaller request
The other request involves a better capital ship take down secondary weapon.
I was still hoping for an exocet missile idea that is dumb fired like the disruptor and could share its animation/sound for some ease in getting it up and going. It wouldn't lock on to the target, and wouldn't be "destroyable", just a new secondary weapon that does shield and hull damage if it hits the capital ship (or a fighter....if you get super lucky). Basically the disruptor but with more range, ""possible"" new sounds/graphics, that does damage on impact with a target. We could also say they are nuclear tipped and therefore anything in the blast gets an EMP like effect for a few moments, basically exactly like what happens with the Leech....but with damage to the object that was impacted only.
Also, for bigger capital ships, a couple would be needed to destroy it, it'd be neat if AI could use them too in those scenarios, but have it be a pretty occasional event....they should be as expensive as disruptors as well to prevent misuse..or even possible to fabricate in the weapon lab.....


What do you think of both / the three ideas?

[Vice]

I like the comet idea (and is something I've thought about myself as an idea, among many other things, lol). In terms of possibility, it's probably beyond the scope of time at this point. It'd be more of a larger scale concept for that kind of dedicated entity setup and the interlinked functional systems it would require. As a visual only element, it would be more feasible, yet still need its own dedicated entity system, activation/deactivation system, collision system, pathway behavior system, and rendering routine to name a few. A couple things could probably be transferred from the asteroid system, but it would need a lot of other things dedicated to it. I'll keep it in mind though.

Some new/different secondary weapon for capital ship attacks (and also as you had described in your other thread on the idea here: http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtop ... 27&t=13203 ) in such a way is a possibility, it would just need some careful review and design consideration after what went on with Fulcrum Torpedoes in EM. With Exodus missiles being as powerful as they are and as effective as they are against capital ships now, the idea of weakening capital ships and/or Exodus missiles further with some new weapon would need careful review. If enough players were mostly after just wanting to make capital ships weaker and easier to destroy, I'd probably prefer to make a global change to their shielding and/or armor levels to adjust things as a whole. Certainly open to hearing additional thoughts on it from others as well though.

[Marvin]

Just a note, scientifically. Comets don't have tails until they get close to the sun. It is then that the ice melts and streams behind the comet's head. For example, the twenty-one pieces of comet which struck Jupiter were photographed while still in deep space ... and they were without tails.

[DaveK]

To make it even more fun, comets actually have two types of tails.

The dust tail is neutral (electrically uncharged) and is made up of tiny dust particles (think ciggy smoke). This one is the easiest to see

UV light from the Sun ionises the neutral gas blown off the comet. The solar wind carries these ions directly away from the Sun to form the ion tail, which typically glows blue. This one is not as prominent and is the one that swings around the comet as it loops round the Sun so it's always pointing directly way.

There's a great image of Hale Bop here: https://www.dkfindout.com/uk/space/solar-system/comets/

[Marvin]

A bit of trivia about that comet. Nichelle Nichols' brother, Thomas, was a member of the Heaven's Gate cult. He died on March 26, 1997 in the cult's mass suicide that purposely coincided with the passing of Hale-Bopp.

[matchbox2022]

Hey Vice!
While you have the game apart I had a few questions about some "very small" features I think would help add to the game.

Other than the big discussion regarding "cruise missiles" against capital ships (the ones AI turrets can target / intercept) and the comet discussion here....


The three "small" ideas / questions are (since the part of them are already in the game);

1)

When the cockpit starts up in game or shuts down, all consoles "flicker" to life, and when re-entry occurs the hull glows and can be viewed from in cockpit.
How hard would it be to make these consoles flicker like that and a sudden flash of that re-entry texture when taking considerable hull damage (on impact of the weapon or missile)? Hence below 25% hull or so, without shields, a hull hit would have the consoles flicker as well as a heat texture flickering smoothly outside for the weapon hit? The flicker could last longer as well in conjunction with general system / hull damage and would go away once the repair system (or is repaired at a station or anyway possible) gets things above 25%?

2)
When engaging fulcrum jump in a nebula or gas giant, if the screen is set to transition to black, there is an effect which is completely coincidental where clouds are flashing in the darkness around you. I love it, it's always awesome and I think it was an accident as Im one of the few that prefer transitions to black when jumping.

This would be extremely cool to have occur in general in space, specifically for intense jumps like at wormholes or jump casters. It'd be a cool extra effect.
I don't know what the default white screen would have, but a little more activity of some kind would be cool.

3)
Finally, OTHER than using Alt-H to disable the head tracking hud info, is there any other text file you can create or option in sw.cfg one can edit in notepad to do this instead an apply globally? This as well as #4 I'd love to be able to configure quickly before game-launch through my batch file.

4)
Combat music seems to transition at 10k from a hostile, and when travelling quickly, it makes for basically a complete interruption in music and then back to the original track......reworking that whole system doesn't seem feasible.
Buttttt, would there be any way to SET a default transition distance (like in the script quest) for the music through notepad / a text file? So one could add a line in notepad to set the transition at say 50k, that way even if you don't see hostiles the music would play, and if just passing through, the interrupt would be far less abrupt (giving a player actual time to enjoy the track).

These ideas imply a large amount of stuff is already in game for it to work....just curious about how hard it would actually be and if you'd think about pursuing them? Other than...you know what people have ALREADY suggested..

Out of ALL these ideas, I think #1 would be the coolest / highest priority, if pressed for time, as it would add a lot more immersion with things already in the game.

[Vice]

Well, it's been nearly two months since I'd last posted in this thread I'm actually almost finished putting the game back together again for the next planned update. The feature set was finalized a few weeks ago, so anything at this point would likely be considerations in the future, and if it's feasible for me to continue with it for much longer. That said:

1 - This would probably be feasible, at least the flicker part of the equation. I've also thought about smoke/spark effects visible from inside the cockpit. Things may slow down a lot for me after this next planned update rolls out (partially out of personal necessity, partially out of clearing the to-do list it includes). If so, I can probably dig into something like this. Maybe send me an e-mail reminder a few weeks after the update rolls out (and if I haven't looked into it by then for the planned update itself).

2 - Yeah, that is probably a graphical anomaly for using the non-default color mode, which alters how it likely blends with other layers in the background (also likely that why it was left as a customizing option and not an integrated option). I may try that myself to see what it looks like.

3 - Yes, there is. The filename is 'ocrssettings.dat' and the created file needs to be placed in the \hud folder (also created if it doesn't already exist). And the values for each line in the file are:

Code: Select all

1                  ` default OCRS mode applied, set to 0 to disable by default
20.0               ` maximum pitch angle from center before the OCRS appears
30.0               ` maximum yaw angle from center before OCRS appears
1                  ` enables or disables digital compass and pitch readouts, 0 disables
227                ` level of shadowing for background, range 210 black - 235 for white

I wouldn't recommend changing the other values unless you are working on a cockpit that needs specific parameters for them, but the first value is the one you'll want to change if you want the system off by default.

4 - Probably not for detection range since it could then be used as a warning gauge for one player vs others (they'd be aware of hostiles nearby before others did and even before they picked them up on radar). The system is actually locked into the range and detection mechanisms, so it only changes when the number of threats in detectable range changes. One option might be to 'force finish' a track before changing to a different one, but I'm not sure how appealing of an option that might be to you or others.

[matchbox2022]

Thx for the reply!

Yeah I figured most couldn't be done feasibly, but man #1 would be pretty stellar "nudge nudge " smoke and particles would be pretty cool as well...I was just thinking along the lines of....well its not like it isn't already in there somewhere.

OCRS config? EXCELLENT!

[Marvin]

When engaging fulcrum jump in a nebula or gas giant, if the screen is set to transition to black, there is an effect which is completely coincidental where clouds are flashing in the darkness around you. I love it, it's always awesome and I think it was an accident as Im one of the few that prefer transitions to black when jumping.

I've been using it that way since the option was first introduced. It's easier on the eyes ... and probably the more correct way to imagine warp FX.

[Revenile]

Hey Vice, love the new update. It really gives the game a sheen it has been lacking for a while, and your continued support of this title just reinforces my decision to purchase at launch. Considering this is a 'additions' thread, I thought maybe I'd ask a simple question that probably has a complex answer of some kind.

How big of a scope would it be to add more trees/clutter to planets? Ever since Evochron Mercenary I've loved the fact we can fly down to planets, but aside from mountains and water (or lava or ice or whatever that planet is) there's maybe a city or two and the rare tree. I get why fauna aren't regularly around, as it could get annoying running into them all the time (but would make the planets more lively), but mostly the lack flora. I'm not meaning like huge forests of trees where you enter and can't see anything until the ship passes through, but at least on planets with grass, just feels like there should be more trees. I fully understand if it's out of the scope for a possible addition before you finally end development on this fantastic game, but since most of the planets I've been to don't even have a close by moon that's visible in the night sky anymore (Though I don't recall many in Mercenary either), there's not much to really look at on planets besides the simple (but lovely) water effect.

Also one I'm sure would be too much to add, but a simple cloud simulation of some kind would be a nice final polish thing I think, it's odd being in a lightning storm with rain, but no clouds for that rain and lightning to come from. Yes, I know there are clouds in the game, heck the new trailer shows some nice ones off, I'm just thinking maybe if a storm is present on the planet, thicker cloud cover would be more immersive, that's all I mean. Neither of these things would make me sad if they didn't make it in, this game is still great and still is my preferred space sim, but this is just me thinking aloud (or in text I suppose) on a couple things I noticed right away.

[Vice]

Glad you like the changes and thanks for the support. The biggest challenge with trees/plants has been performance, keeping them high enough to be present for functional purposes (biological sample recovery contracts) and a little eye candy, but low enough to allow for other effects to render at a solid framerate on a targeted range of system configurations. Adding more numerically would simply be a matter of changing a value as the system I'd put together is flexible in that regard. I don't know what kind of impact this would have currently considering the new graphics systems in place and I haven't evaluated different levels for a while. So I may give it a try and see what kind of results might be possible with doubling or tripling the number. If the performance reduction is as I remember, it will likely need to remain fairly close to where it is.

There are indeed new cloud textures and fading/transition sequences in place with the new build. And rain does actually scale with the cloud level visible to the player's position. However, there can be gaps as part of the variation in place (cloudless rains being a possibility on other planets). Adjusting that is also a scalable option, although with performance a consideration as well. Which planet have you observed this most on? I'll experiment with that a bit also.

[Marvin]

With the current addition of texture levels being selected in Options, I can see where flora could be added to the High or Very High terrain textures. Either together or separate. Which would be interesting. Of course, with my old GPU, it would be more helpful if the options were separate.

[Revenile]

With the current addition of texture levels being selected in Options, I can see where flora could be added to the High or Very High terrain textures. Either together or separate. Which would be interesting. Of course, with my old GPU, it would be more helpful if the options were separate.

Yeah actually what Marvin said, possibly a separate option in the graphics menu, like "Planetary Tree Cover" where players could choose from a few amounts, or even just a "More trees" check box. I agree the game should be as configurable as possible for as many people to be able to play it smoothly, so it being an option people can tweak would offer the best outcome there.

Also on the clouds thing, I only really noticed it on one of the early independent starter system planets. The fact you did say they happen but only on some planets makes me realize I was too quick to mention it. I'll keep exploring around more before making a claim like that one again, because on the occasional planet it does give an interesting sight.

[Vice]

Confirmed that the performance hit is still out of required range (-30-50% or more depending on configuration and level) when increasing plants. Plant indexes also need to be aligned in multiplayer so players all see the same things anyway. So what I may do is implement a customizing option that would let the player set the level for the single player mode if they want to accept the hit for more plants.

[matchbox2022]

Hey Vice,

Info on the update -
From a guy that uses an old GPU, the new planet terrain from orbit does look good but man does it KICK performance. (Went from 45 to 18 fps in orbit)
These levels are ironically close to what Mercenary used to give me, so I'd stay away from planets typically.
I found my GPU was getting its butt kicked, however my CPU use is marginal from orbit.

Furthermore, I found that using Very High on Effects caused all textures on models to become black...so can't comment on how the textures look (Though I'd wager this is due to limited video memory or even the fact I'm still using a GPU with separate vertex/pixel shaders and totally understandable as I fall outside the minimum requirements with 256 bit DDR3 512MB and only slow DDR2 666Mhz system ram to make up the difference) The hit was about 50% on my fps just from that, so I'm not defn asking for a fix, just a "let you know" for anyone in that position. (I wouldn't be using it anyways at that kind of hit in open space).

It's kinda the nature of things, I need to upgrade.


About the flora and storms -
But on the topic that people were mentioning with flora cover and the crazy fps hit that would take,
I would definitely DEFINITELY second some kind of slider or at least a " none low medium high very high" setting for that.
If Normal were the current state of the game and scaling up and down from that.
I'd be willing to use a flora setting ironically set to low as a trade for better fps while using the newer planet textures / shaders (which again look fantastic, especially at low orbit, worth the fps hit).
Bigger, darker storm clouds would be cool where there'd be more scalable lightning / wind throwing you around...would certainly rather it be localized to the "cloud" though as opposed to it being the nature of the whole planet, but that seems like a harder job.

General system question
I recall at some point that planet side things were more CPU intensive but that seems to be the opposite now...any ideas what effects I could turn "up" to use the additional CPU cycles I have free? (I'm running at about 3.33Ghz from 2.33 and on one core its only using about 30% at times planetside with high planet terrain set, when set to medium my CPU cycles are used much more effectively...Also, With the new planetary effect on high GPU use is slammed at 100% from orbit, but on the surface is only at 80%...my only thought on this is limited system RAM speed being used for graphic memory and denying me a better fps?..I can't really be sure).

Also, I noticed the cloud transitions and lightning flashes (even on medium, and pretty cool). However I haven't seen many other new effects (other than the much improved planet textures), are there any on high/very high? I haven't checked out the flicker on hull impact yet.

[Vice]

Hey Vice,

Info on the update -
From a guy that uses an old GPU, the new planet terrain from orbit does look good but man does it KICK performance. (Went from 45 to 18 fps in orbit)
These levels are ironically close to what Mercenary used to give me, so I'd stay away from planets typically.
I found my GPU was getting its butt kicked, however my CPU use is marginal from orbit.

Furthermore, I found that using Very High on Effects caused all textures on models to become black...so can't comment on how the textures look (Though I'd wager this is due to limited video memory or even the fact I'm still using a GPU with separate vertex/pixel shaders and totally understandable as I fall outside the minimum requirements with 256 bit DDR3 512MB and only slow DDR2 666Mhz system ram to make up the difference) The hit was about 50% on my fps just from that, so I'm not defn asking for a fix, just a "let you know" for anyone in that position. (I wouldn't be using it anyways at that kind of hit in open space).

Yes, a below-spec GPU like that will be a bottleneck and insufficient for the load of memory and shader instructions required to run the effects. While the minimum requirements are still the same, they are now more 'requirements' in a sense with some of the new effects active, although you can still turn down the details to run it as it was before.

General system question
I recall at some point that planet side things were more CPU intensive but that seems to be the opposite now...any ideas what effects I could turn "up" to use the additional CPU cycles I have free? (I'm running at about 3.33Ghz from 2.33 and on one core its only using about 30% at times planetside with high planet terrain set, when set to medium my CPU cycles are used much more effectively...Also, With the new planetary effect on high GPU use is slammed at 100% from orbit, but on the surface is only at 80%...my only thought on this is limited system RAM speed being used for graphic memory and denying me a better fps?..I can't really be sure).

The GPU will likely be the major bottleneck holding back other things. The CPU will still be used if/how it can be, but can only chew through things as fast as other elements in the system will tend to permit. So in terms of utilization, there's nothing really to force higher performance since the required operations will still only go as fast as the processor is allowed to chew through them (and if the GPU is holding back each cycle/update, the processor will have less to do each cycle). Being below the minimum memory threshold also means you'll likely encounter various kinds of visual and performance problems that could include everything from blank surfaces to visual artifacts. Stability could also be a factor. The only effective way to improve performance would be to stay within the confines of what your system offers by dialing back the settings in efforts to better balance resource loads and improve framerate in general. At least perhaps until your next upgrade.

Also, I noticed the cloud transitions and lightning flashes (even on medium, and pretty cool). However I haven't seen many other new effects (other than the much improved planet textures), are there any on high/very high? I haven't checked out the flicker on hull impact yet.

Just that and what is stated in the changelog. I think you'll like the secondary display/light flickering effect. It was fun to implement and toy around with

[Revenile]

I'd be ok with the flora option being single player only. I totally understand the multiplayer issue with it, and agree that multiplayer should be as level and standard as possible for the best experience. In terms of my performance I have very minor frame hits when approaching planets with everything set to the maximum, so I'd be willing to see how my framerate in SP gets hit by flora options or modding opportunities to add more in.

I must give you thanks for even humoring the idea, I don't know many devs, indie or not who would give something like that a try at the request of currently 2-3 people.

[Marvin]

So what I may do is implement a customizing option that would let the player set the level for the single player mode if they want to accept the hit for more plants.

It might also work on a LAN where all the players are on the same page, flora-wise.

[Vice]

If anyone interested in the plant limit modification option would like to try it in test form (since the next update may be a while/uncertain), just send me a quick e-mail (starwraith.com > contact) from the address you'd like to receive download details at. A few quick notes on it. Each numerical increase in the value will specify a higher level for each placement group. There are 25 groups to which more plant indexes can be added. The default maximum value 24, so there are 25X24 total by default. If you increase the index value by one, it increases to the total plant count in range by 25X1. So if you apply a value of something like '80', it will have a net effect of 25X56 more plants indexes than before.

[Revenile]

Email sent. I'll mess around with it for a while, and maybe start a thread up discussing various tweaks to the index as compared to my rig's performance (listing specs and stuff) compared to default and other settings. Stuff like this I find fun.

Edit: Oh I thought of another one. This is like the silliest little thing, but how hard would it be to add more color choices for built ships? I think a nice shade of purple would look amazing with the new reflections. Granted I know this is the dumbest thing to ask about but I figure "why not? It hurts no one to ask."