MDTS Plus

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:52 pm

I was thinking that it would be nice to have a way to upgrade the MDTS targeting computer. This could be a software upgrade that you could buy, or maybe a general upgrade.

What would it do?

First, I find that at high velocities, the cannon shots are not hitting the mark, even though it is in range. I think the MDTS should be able to compensate for high velocities (Einstein's relativity notwithstanding).

Second, and more importantly, I would like the MDTS to be able to hit ship subsystems. For example, I can cycle through subsystems on my MFD, and I can see how they are doing, but I can't actually target them. I would like to see an advanced, maybe military version of the MDTS that allows you to target specific subsystems. They might not always have a clear line of fire to the subsystem, but I would like to target it.

So, if I target a foe's engines, I would expect the shots to be going mostly toward the back of the enemy ship, depleting the rear shields first (if I am chasing). If the enemy is coming at me, then the shots would hit the front shields instead (the engines being out of line of fire).

Having the ability to target a foe's engines in combat would be extremely useful when chasing down those squirrelly vonari.

Being able to select Nav or Weapons systems would be interesting too. I'm not sure how destroying enemy NAV would help in a battle, but I'd like to find out. Maybe it would make it difficult for the enemy to lock on to you, or even orient itself to you in combat. Could be fun! Taking out enemy weapons should be obvious...they can't fire back. However, they would still be able to escape.

On another note, I think it would be interesting if foes actually did try to escape sometimes, instead of continuing the fight...especially non-military combatants, who choose to live to fight another day. I've done that

.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:41 pm

It's hard to see where the targeting box would be in runabouts. Easy in capital ships ... where the computer does adjust the box accordingly.

Some fighters do run away ... but usually at the get-go. It would be nice if heavily damaged ships didn't always turn back inbound for a suicide run.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:54 am

I Like the idea, Nigel.

Am with Marv on the explanation of the targeting info on small ship versus capital ship indicators. Granted, it is difficult to tell. But each subsystem you target specifically by toggeling the U key, does get hit by the ordnance so launched. It's been deliberated and stated as much elsewhere. Dead-in-space, with no power works well too. Cain't shoot - no power. Cain't maneuver - no power. Fish-in-Barrel!

The first one may depend upon the game software (scalable enhanced targeting software ?) being able to rapidly compute potential trajectories over time, distance, and space at any velocity, let alone the upper ranges. And your other thought chunk - 'actual' electronic counter-measure equipment to defeat/slide a 'weapons lock' ? Einstein's thoughts, or Newton's, or Copernicus', or Alcubierre's.... if it can work without too much load, and some one is convinced.........sign me up!

:P

For your last note, suggest conducting escort missions in a system like Talison or Olympus, even Cerulean. Nice, advertised 4-F contract on a principle somewhere. I've managed to scare off quite a few reds, quite a few times, apparently just by showing up........and showing them my 'teeth'....

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:35 am

I don't think it is necessary to see the targeting box, just see the component take damage from the MFD. I find it strange that my cannons mostly hit the front of the ship, even when the ship is speeding away from me. I have heard that the targeting system tends to hit at the front of the craft. It seems like when the ship is moving away, it should take damage in the aft shields, and then to the engines, since the engines are in the aft of the ship. What would work out even better is if you could use the U key to target the subcomponents, so that they take "preferential" damage. You wouldn't see the shots hitting anywhere differently, necessarily, but you would see that component taking more damage than the rest, and the shields over that component would be going down first.

It would be interesting if this was an upgrade item that allowed you to do this, like a software upgrade or something, so that you could purchase the upgrade and notice more accurate firing solutions.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:46 pm

Got it! Whether crafted or purchased, an upgraded MDTS of the nature you describe would be very useful. As the shields and indicators on 'our' ships react to and report the area damaged (forward, aft, port, and starboard shield arrays and hull-strength) by weapons impacts, I agree that it would be nice to be able to see the fruits of our efforts against the bad guys some how reflected and reported to us more easily. But, isn't that idea behind the targeting/strength and distance info of the box/shroud on any 'target' now ? (Would guess the info is pulled/grafted from your targeting computer-MDTS/software any way.) [It has also been alleged that the MDTS housed within the military frames are subtly 'better' than that which is available on the civilian market. I've not seen much difference at all.]

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:15 pm

I'd like to see the MTDS (default or modified) not be an item included with the purchase of the ship. It should be an (expensive) upgrade.

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:05 pm

From post: 164675, Topic: tid=11014, author=Marvin wrote: I'd like to see the MTDS (default or modified) not be an item included with the purchase of the ship. It should be an (expensive) upgrade.

As long as it doesn't take up one of the equipment slots - it would after all be a software upgrade.

One point though - if the standard MTDS is only available to pilots who are quite experienced (expensive) then the least experienced will be denied a useful combat tool. More experienced (rich enough) pilots would have the extra advantage of MTDS.

Would a proportion of NPC ships be modified to simulate not having MTDS or would all NPC's be assumed to have bought the upgrade?

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:34 pm

So, maybe MDTS is a HUD software upgrade, and there might be different levels of quality (and expense) that allow you to target specific ship subsystems by selecting them in the MFD (using the 'U' key). I could see that. It would be interesting.

It would also be interesting trying to engage in combat as a starting pilot without MDTS. I wonder if the rookie dropout rate would increase.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:48 pm

I suppose one intermediate version of MDTS could be a target vector indicator. It would show the aiming point for the firing solution, but it would not move the cannon's aiming point for you, so you would have to aim the ship at that aiming point directly.

Level 2 would be like the current MDTS: it aims at the ship in general, but does not allow you to specify subsystems.

Level 3 would allow you to specify subsystems, and it would aim the cannons directly at the selected subsystem to do preferential damage.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:32 pm

I like that idea. And, about new pilots having a hard time, IIRC docking was a real pain in Elite until you bought a docking computer. In other words, yeah it's harder ... which is a really good incentive to get enough credits to upgrade before going into combat by yourself.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:42 pm

Yeah, probably not having an MDTS of any kind, might put a severe crimp in 'perceived' over-all game play, new folks not withstanding. I like the idea of starting out with, or purchasing, a basic, upgradable MDTS model (for civilian frames) as Nigel suggests. And, not being required to have an open ships' equipment or secondary weapons slot to do so. Haven't a clue what it would take, game-coding and physics-wise, to make it work in-game. But, this sounds like it could be do-able, should a bunch of us start beating that drum.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:44 pm

Welcome to Evochron.

Start mining, serf.

hehe.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:45 pm

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:03 pm

From post: 164679, Topic: tid=11014, author=Nigel_Strange wrote:I suppose one intermediate version of MDTS could be a target vector indicator. It would show the aiming point for the firing solution, but it would not move the cannon's aiming point for you, so you would have to aim the ship at that aiming point directly.

Level 2 would be like the current MDTS: it aims at the ship in general, but does not allow you to specify subsystems.

Level 3 would allow you to specify subsystems, and it would aim the cannons directly at the selected subsystem to do preferential damage.

Make the basic one cheap. Perhaps with a special double offer package: a mining beam plus basic MDTS. Then ramp up the prices exponentially: Basic MDTS same level of cost as a cannon relay/cannon heatsink/mining beam with the C2 @ 1000x and C3 @ 10000x.

Or something like that. Ramp up C2 and C3 according to just how expensive we think the top of the range should be.

Newbies would then have some assistance, affluent mercs could get a C2 as they work in more dangerous systems and combat jocks go for the bees' knees!

And it would be a cash sink that couldn't be used for trade profit!

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:14 pm

Besides credits, the upgrade could also be linked to reputation ... so that, even if you spent hours upon hours trading between stations and/or star systems, building up your cash load, it wouldn't be enough ... you'd still be required to do a few contracts.

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:38 pm

hmmm - that's setting a precedent

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:44 pm

Okay, how about this:

MDTS C-1: Rookie thru Skilled/Trainee thru Lieutenant.

MDTS C-2: Advanced thru Master/Lt. Cdr. thru Captain.

MDTS C-3: Superior thru Legend/Commodore thru Almirante' del Fleet.

Supporting Dave's point on the MDTS (of any flavor) being a cash-cow and a manditory non-trade item.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:45 pm

I would think building up cash would be enough to afford a software upgrade.

However, it makes sense for the upgraded version of MDTS to be included with the higher end military frames.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:59 pm

Should it come to a poser, I'd opt for keeping the mil-frame intrinsic equipment load-out scalability to what it is currently. Maybe a smidgen 'better' here or there. Am persuaded, from many combat pilot spawn-ins, that "Mil-grade' should mean just that. A whole 'class' of ships with superior, combat-grade MDTS/AI's; mil-grade shield and engine combo [C-10 for each and all currently.], (with mil-grade core management attributes/'software'). And, mil-grade armoring conducive to a given mil-frame structural and primary mission requirements {Scout-Intel/Courier, Interceptor, Fighter, Bomber, and et cetera ad iterations.}. Would also prefer keeping the fuel pod scalability to what it is now as well.

I used to think that flying a civ-frame, and conducting 'business' in war zones, was like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

That hasn't been the case, for a long while.... In the same light and spirit of the expanded equipment options available to all mil and civ frames, the thinking pilot and the careful planning one, can just about 'raise up' a civ-frame to an even match with the current crop of correspondent mil-frames. Taking the same care with the individual mil-frames, tends to put a touch more 'polish on the diamond'....

And then it becomes a matter of skill.......

Post by **DaveK** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:12 pm

From post: 164690, Topic: tid=11014, author=Busch wrote:Should it come to a poser, I'd opt for keeping the mil-frame intrinsic equipment load-out scalability to what it is currently. Maybe a smidgen 'better' here or there. Am persuaded, from many combat pilot spawn-ins, that "Mil-grade' should mean just that. A whole 'class' of ships with superior, combat-grade MDTS/AI's; mil-grade shield and engine combo [C-10 for each and all currently.], (with mil-grade core management attributes/'software'). And, mil-grade armoring conducive to a given mil-frame structural and primary mission requirements {Scout-Intel/Courier, Interceptor, Fighter, Bomber, and et cetera ad iterations.}. Would also prefer keeping the fuel pod scalability to what it is now as well.

I used to think that flying a civ-frame, and conducting 'business' in war zones, was like bringing a knife to a gun fight. That hasn't been the case, for a long while.... In the same light and spirit of the expanded equipment options available to all mil and civ frames, the thinking pilot and the careful planning one, can just about 'raise up' a civ-frame to an even match with the current crop of correspondent mil-frames. Taking the same care with the individual mil-frames, tends to put a touch more 'polish on the diamond'....

And then it becomes a matter of skill.......

It would perhaps also encourage experienced players to maintain a civ frame and a mil frame. The civ frame for trade and for playing with the Weapon Lab and the mil frame for combat and looking cool!

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:40 pm

That's a workable idea as well, Dave. Cool is Good ! I pretty much do that now as it is. That's within the ships' template storage parameters specifically. I'd opt for keeping the 'swap-ability', which we currently enjoy, among the ships' equipment hard-points and the secondary weapons hard-points when transitioning from a civ to a mil-frame, and/or vice versa. Quite possibly relieving a perceived 'need' to keep two separate ships 'active'. And be less of a drain on the burse for hangar/secure storage fees.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:58 pm

At just about every point in the development and introduction of new military hardware, the phase-out of old stuff in gradual. Ergo, somebody is always stuck with a less-than-current piece of equipment. Odd that military personnel in Mercenary all get top-of-the-line fighters.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:00 pm

On the bleeding edge with the Vonari ? sure thing...... 'I'm a pilot...I ken fly it'.

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

But seriously, we 'inherited' our leading edge technology from the Arvoch, the Federation, and the on-set of hostilities against the Vonari. Then, reverse engineered some of the Vonari stuff. Stands to reason.

[Edited on 9-30-2013 by Busch]

[Edited on 10-1-2013 by Busch]