New Frames & Inventory Console Features

[RAYfighter]

I would welcome some extension to the current text chat.

Without offering any particular solution, it should accept long sentences, see more text at once (smaller crispy font, large chat window), and catch hyperlinks making them clickable. So players can refer to this forum or various sources of help and info for newbies.
I love the scroller we got there now btw.

Another wish comes from online communication too: servers list should include players count by default, and player names list upon request like it is now - but please make it more clear how to get this info. (rightclicking on server to get it is really adventurous hidden treasure...)

----

My last suggestion goes to multiplayer gameplay. I am new, and I am sure that this was already discussed, but since I have played other games, I hope that some more fresh view can't hurt:

With today amount of players online it seems to me that current clans system and their "fight" for systems control is rather static. I would suggest to shrink number of competing sides to just two. Let's name them Alliance vs Federation - both human, both relatively equal for competition I hope. (Human vs Vonari doesn't seem good because we players are all humans right?) Players would pick their side and automatically got to see opposite side as reds, their teammates as green. Server would start as neutral universe with players running out for territories to control.
TOTAL CONTROL would mean the epic end of the "round" and reset universe back to neutral after a short period of a winners party

I am hesitate to go into details within this thread, so it might sound a bit not too well overthought, but I will welcome any input on this topic.

[Marvin]

The two-clan system has been discussed ... in detail. And rejected. Personally, I'm more than willing to re-visit the idea.

[BLEVE]

I once advocated a 3 clan system. Federation, Alliance and Independents. Those who liked the current system hated it. And the rest just didn't seem to care either way. Only a very few liked the idea.

It's impossible to get consensus on this, so we just have to go with Vice's decision. His game. His choice.

[MiaZ]

I like the idea!
You Could maybe still have separate squadrons within a team/Clan, so as to keep the clans as they are but having them forced to choice one side or the other.

I guess anything that could bring a bit of life into the fighting part of the game.

Not sure how many you know or have played il21946 online. There are many squads but in the game, depending on the server you can only be either Red or blue. That game has great online dogfights. something I would love to see here.
Have been in lots of 1v1 dogfights here in this game, they are great but I would like it if there could be more multiple player dogfights: )

Even though this is something that could be hardwired into the game code, I am not sure that it should be.

Some kind of two-clan system is something we could choice to do without any changes in the game code.




[Edited on 6-14-2012 by MiaZ]

[Ophiuchus]

Would support what Bleve has suggested, previously as well as above. Was once asked, and then was my honor and pleasure to be tasked with representing the Independent Faction on the USS server. As some may recall, 'twas a multi-partite representation among clans and indies, allegedly human or otherwise. Didn't last long, but was a good idea at the time. Or so I thought, and others did as well. Was just starting to build up steam, when a number of unforseen/unexpected/unintended factoids occurreth. Then Vice opened up the arena with the Steam game association and WOW! Talk about sidereal evolutions! Anyhow, the A-F-I plan does have merit points to consider. The game software may be "worked" from within. In individual cases, with ease/facility. Age/cunning vs youth/exuberance ? 3-1 on the codgers.

[Edited on 6-14-2012 by Ophiuchus]

[BLEVE]

The main hurdle is that the vast majority don't seem to care either way. Whilst the negative outvoted the positive about 3-1.

I'm sure Vice is of the opinion, if it aint broke, don't fix it. The only way you are going to get this changed is if a vast majority say they want it, and that doesn't seem to be the case each time this question is raised.

[RAYfighter]

The two-clan system has been discussed ... in detail. And rejected. Personally, I'm more than willing to re-visit the idea.

I would love to read about it Marvin. I am sure I will find answers to many questions I might have about this idea. May I ask for the link please?

I like the idea!
You Could maybe still have separate squadrons within a team/Clan, so as to keep the clans as they are but having them forced to choice one side or the other.

I guess anything that could bring a bit of life into the fighting part of the game.

Not sure how many you know or have played il21946 online. There are many squads but in the game, depending on the server you can only be either Red or blue. That game has great online dogfights. something I would love to see here.
Have been in lots of 1v1 dogfights here in this game, they are great but I would like it if there could be more multiple player dogfights: )

Even though this is something that could be hardwired into the game code, I am not sure that it should be.

Some kind of two-clan system is something we could choice to do without any changes in the game code.

Yeah, we discussed this topic already before, with MiaZ. And we both agreed on it - which gave me courage to post it here.
I have never played il21946, and when I am reading such examples, they might seem irrelevant from the 1st sight. Pointing at other game titles even sounds a bit like betraying EM. Obviously it's not the intent. I have played Starwarsy themed 2D topdown shooter named Subspace. It was the Death Star Battle - 2 sides: Imperials vs Rebels. Imagine respawning both at the same zero ground, flying inside the "death star" base with "flags" - little icons at fixed positions to flyover to claim. Bad guys you shoot down gets kicked out of the base and respawned outside. They could, however, "Attach" at their mates who were still alive inside but with zero energy after the jump. So the goal was to wipe all enemies outside the base so they won't touch our flags, and therefor get the TOTAL CONTROL of the base. Then we simply massed all entrances and established constant bombing stream to prevent the enemy to enter. Breaking the total control was a great bravery fun for itself. After keeping the total control for a preset time, we won, got fat bonus, and the game round ended. Both sides got respawned back to ground zero, all flags got reset to neutral.

This gameplay offered an intense instant fun for both veterans and total newbies. Vets were quickly becoming natural leaders for newbies, noobs quickly understood thus far that they must fire at red ships. More dedicated noobs also rarely listened to vets that they are also flags which are important, not just kills, lol.
As you might guess, the server automatically puts every new joined player to the side with less players, but still allowed you to force switch sides if you got your mates at any of them (typically 30 vs 30 players, server allowed 2-3 players difference). Obviously, clan members always tried to get on the same side.

Last note at more than 2 sides fighting for their fortune: at some time there were "private teams" allowed - they never really worked and has been denied later on. Instead of bringing the "variety" into the game, they only took players away and effectively destroyed the balance. Private team was always too weak to take over the base, and 2 main teams were distracted enough to lose motivation.

As MiaZ suggested - much can be done even within the current MP game mechanics. However, when you read my review of that other game, you can see few features which would heavily help it.

[Marvin]

A couple comments:

1. IIRC, there was also a suggestion to add Vonari to the list (which, if you include Independents ... now comes to four).*

2. King Arthur's tourneys are probably the closest we've come to "daily" combat. Maybe they can be modified now that PvP is more popular.



* And, if you add Rebels to the list (some players like to be baddies ... but not necessarily aliens), the list comes to five.

[RAYfighter]

I am suggesting 2 sides or let it be like it is now. Not 3 (definetly not Vonari as humans... omg), not 4.
2, two, football - 2 sides. hockey - 2 sides. thatverypopularamericangameicannotrememberthename - 2 sides (I guess)

the point is to join server and immediately get the strong goal to play for. yet still clear and simple. you as a player take what you want - from maniacal defence of your sides territory up to total ignorance of the situation. Anybody can become "independent" or "just exploring". Why not? Yes, others will fire at him on sight. But that's nothing new in hostile systems, right? Maybe he can talk them over to cease fire.

[KingArthur]

This Game is Predicated on the CLAN SYSTEM. To Have 2 or 3 "MUST JOIN" Organizations TOTALLY ELIMINATES ANY Individuality of the Lone Pilot or the Clan.

ALL The Many Clans in EM Have Different Mission Statements and Goals, as Do the Idependant Pilots. That's One of the Joys of EM. You Do What You Want, when You Want.

Pilots Join a Clan VOLUNTARILY, not Because they MUST PICK A SIDE. Some Pilots Prefer INDIVIDUALITY and Remain Independant.

You Can't FORCE someone to Become Something they may not want to be. Not in THIS GAME.

[Busch]

His Kingness put the polish on the fine point, illuminating the fine print there.

[RAYfighter]

I believed that I clearly said it in my suggestion. Even within the two opposite sides used, anybody can still do what he wants in this game.
Now I see what you have meant BLEVE.


edited typos

[Edited on 6-15-2012 by RAYfighter]

[MiaZ]

I wouldn't give up completely on the idea too fast.

What king said here.
"To Have 2 or 3 "MUST JOIN" Organizations TOTALLY ELIMINATES ANY Individuality of the Lone Pilot or the Clan." Is true, though it doesn't have to be like that.
I think most will agree we want to keep this game with its sandbox type of freedom.
I wouldn't want to change that and force players to join a side in the game as a whole.

There could be ways to have independents and possibly even interdependent clan control, of areas inside of one of the two teams in a two team system.


Or the ability to clan link for % points of area control. Where when two or more clans when linked it forms a new "team" clan.
That would be like to be able to have 4 clans link up ( blue= [ab] + [cd] ) versus ( Red = [ef] +[hi] )

A separate Type of "war" % for that area on the territory map would show in navmap.
Individual clans could keep their "homes" and the still be a two team system at the same time.

Or more simply just a star system or sectors can be set up as a separate area for it.
Where when you enter, you are given the choice to pick a team.


Anyway- just floating some idea.
Things are pretty stale with the Clanwar side of the game at the moment.
I think to keep players staying and interested in playing online it wold be good to setup something that might work better than what we have at the moment.

Things can be done even without any change to the code.
But We as a community i believe need to get together and find a way to make it work, or else people will come , and go.
Play awhile till they get their upgrades explore a bit, then,, its same ,same and they will leave MultiPlayer.

We had a huge crowd for awhile, new players everywhere.
I know many left because of the limited competition in the game.
To keep people in multiPlayer there needs to be a bit more competition in the MP gameplay.






[Edited on 6-15-2012 by MiaZ]

[RAYfighter]

I wouldn't give up completely on the idea too fast.

What king said here.
"To Have 2 or 3 "MUST JOIN" Organizations TOTALLY ELIMINATES ANY Individuality of the Lone Pilot or the Clan." Is true, though it doesn't have to be like that.
I think most will agree we want to keep this game with its sandbox type of freedom.
I wouldn't want to change that and force players to join a side in the game as a whole.

Definitely! Keep it freedom is the main idea I will personally never stop defending!
Kings CAPS shouting was a complete missunderstanding of the idea, i guess.
I am obviously not looking for any dictatorship. All I am trying to achieve is more action.

Let me tell you my newcomer's view of the MP game today. For a sake of lifting up the topic, in a form of a chat between a vet and a noob:

So, how does this MP work?
Look, there are clans in the game.
Cool!
They choose some neutral system, go there, and raise their control % by doing contracts. They can do them together in cooperative mode.
YAY! Awesome!
Then they build trade stations there to slow down % drop, because when they are offline, it slowly goes down.
Ahh that's nice. So and how the opposite clan can take over this system?
By simply flying there and doing contracts - %s would move from defending clan to attacking clan. Plus they destroy their stations and build their own there.
Amazing! And what do you get for controlling the system?
Oh good question! Your online clan members get periodical cash, if you control over 70%!
Wooot! So the more % and more sectors your clan controls, the more money they are getting?
Um... no I don't think so.. not sure...
Ah.. anyways, this sounds great! So some players keep their home systems at 100% and never go to combat, and others are deadly fighters and fly to enemy systems to extend the glory of their clans, right?
Yeah you can choose your own way, this is the best part of EM!
So there is actually the constant war going on there, I bet! For territory I mean..
Um... actually.. not really.. clans just stick with their owned systems. They have peace agreement with each other. We are just one big happy family here. lol
Then what do you do as a fighter?
Go to Warzones and kill some Vonari...
And that's it?
Well.. yeah.. it's fun!
...


From the dialogue above, I would say that the game how Vice designed it, is perfect.
Maybe it only needs some very fine tuning in areas of how the control level can be altered when players/clans are online or offline.

[Letoras]

On the other hand you can make a clan and declare war to all others and let the servers burn!!!!!:D:D:D

[Major Grubert]

On the other hand you can make a clan and declare war to all others and let the servers burn!!!!!:D:D:D

cool

why not just create a public server dedicated to that war ?

[MiaZ]

"Wooot! So the more % and more sectors your clan controls, the more money they are getting?"

Yes this is mostly true. The more territory the clan controls the more often they can the territory payments.
a payment cycle for each territory as long as % is above 80.

[Major Grubert]

On the other hand you can make a clan and declare war to all others and let the servers burn!!!!!:D:D:D

i like this idea

[KingArthur]

A Dedicated WAR SERVER Would Be Something I'd Enjoy Personally. Nice One Letoras. Clan Life and Indy could Continue as it is Now on our Current Servers (My Thanks to Those Who are Keeping MP alive By Hosting a Server : StarBuck, Janus and Archy) But When the "Need To Kill" Hits Us we Could Enter The WAR SERVER where a "TWO OPPOSING SIDES" Concept would Be PERFECT.

COMMANDERS Would Have to Be Choosen, Rankings System Settled Upon, Promotion System put in Place, Secured Communications, Bases of Operation Constructed, Offensive/Defensive Squadrons Created, etc. NO AMBIGUITY!

If it were to be Done IT MUST BE DONE RIGHT!









[Edited on 6-15-2012 by KingArthur]

[Marvin]

mido beat me to it. Yes, having a server where only a limited number of clans (Alliance, Feds and whatever) is a great idea. But territorial maintenance might still be a problem ... because it takes up so much of our time. Perhaps the "number of trade stations needed" should be an option (similar to the in-game audio chat) set by the server. Allowing the operator to adjust the limit according to player preferences.

[RAYfighter]

A Dedicated WAR SERVER Would Be Something I'd Enjoy Personally. Nice One Letoras.

Nice one mido.

...The WAR SERVER where a "TWO OPPOSING SIDES" Concept would Be PERFECT.

COMMANDERS Would Have to Be Choosen, Rankings System Settled Upon, Promotion System put in Place, Secured Communications, Bases of Operation Constructed, Offensive/Defensive Squadrons Created, etc. NO AMBIGUITY!

If it were to be Done IT MUST BE DONE RIGHT![Edited on 6-15-2012 by KingArthur]

It must be?

Whatever, it would be too complicated I think, and may I add also annoyingly military?

Allright, let's try something else, since the idea, as it is evolving, doesn't seem to walk towards a nice consensus this way.
I will just describe this vision as it was already in place. With my english it seems to be the most safe approach:

• Evochron Universe is built around two "home" planets:
  - Alpha C in Alpha Centauri system, controlled by the Federation,
  - and Talison I, in Talison system, controlled by the Alliance.
  and it's therefor divided to more or less NORTH and SOUTH half.
• Far SOUTH and far NORTH are both safe and peacefull corners of the Universe, to provide a nice place for easy start
• Closer to the center you get, the more dangerous it becomes, with the warzones in the very middle
• Each player has to select where he wants to start the game: NORTH or SOUTH. However, both sides are perfectly balanced, although each features its own ship frames, but there are always opposing pairs to be found, which are very competetive.
• Factions like Energy, Navy, Miners, Guild and Rebels were removed. Your reputation now shows only Federation vs Alliance.
• You can do contracts like trading or mining across the center "border" and adjust your reputation to be friendly to both sides, or even shift it completely and become "the citizen" of the opposing side to where you started, if you feel like that.
• Systems far north and far south are guarded by equivalent Navy force - if you fire your weapons there, AI controlled military fighters gang on you and most probably make you pay very fast.
• Systems near to the center are warzones, where only human piloted ships fight for the territory. Navy don't go there. They can be organized in clans, but a reasonable share of their profit, coming from controlled territory, comes to all members of their side. (this is very vague in my vision, but it should somehow connect the wealth of mines, mercenaries, and fighters - both attackers and defenders)

The point is to give all the players, veterans and newbies, the feeling of "this is my home" and "those are the others" we don't know much about, maybe we can be friends, and maybe not. Something like a patriotism.
I cannot support the way of dedicated server, because with current amount of active players it is barely going to work. Actually the lack of online players was the main ignition for this whole idea. So I am trying to create a mental image, the world where all kind of players can play together their own roles, their own game.
Once again, everything to defend the idea of a sandbox type of game.

opinions are welcome

[Major Grubert]

mido beat me to it. Yes, having a server where only a limited number of clans (Alliance, Feds and whatever) is a great idea. But territorial maintenance might still be a problem ... because it takes up so much of our time. Perhaps the "number of trade stations needed" should be an option (similar to the in-game audio chat) set by the server. Allowing the operator to adjust the limit according to player preferences.

i have this idea at reading others post

i think we need to find an easy way to tweak a little the basis rules

as simple and elegant as possible

dunno, will read more before submit more, but i guess it can lead to something great

[Marvin]

Well, if King Arthur wants a regimented group, then one side can be regimented. I see no problem with that. The other side could be just the opposite ... it would be a good way to differentiate between two factions. But, to get rid of Rebels, Navy, etc., you need to modify one of the (uncoded) game files ... it can be done but it would also require that everyone involved in the 2-Faction setup use the same mod.

[RAYfighter]

... to get rid of Rebels, Navy, etc., you need to modify one of the (uncoded) game files ... it can be done but it would also require that everyone involved in the 2-Faction setup use the same mod.

This sounds very interesting to me. It would mean that the 2-sides gameplay might be possible even within current given game today. Without any hardcoded modifications. Well, almost. (except the part of friendly/hostile areas and 2 home planets)

[Major Grubert]

just dispatch the ai players in 2 camp instead of x camp