The New Elite

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:03 am

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/146 ... -dangerous

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20165344

Never played the original myself, before my time, but nice to see this in the works. The more space sims the better!

I know a lot of you will be very excited by this news!

:-)

[Edited on 6-11-2012 by soulsacrifice]

Kikoni · Post by **Kikoni** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:59 am

Oh man, oh man. This makes me giddier than a Star Trek fan meeting Shatner.

I hope this game comes through in the end. It'll be something amazing to see Elite re-done.

Bossk · Post by **Bossk** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:27 am

Was just about to post that link! This game is a classic! I played it in the original b&w wire frame and the updated full colour version on the BBC Acorn Archimedes. This is one of the true pioneers of the genre and deserves some cash to get a re-boot. They just need to make sure that the new version do not loose any of it original appeal.

B

sundalo · Post by **sundalo** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:20 pm

I currently play OOlite and I'm excited to hear this news for another Elite game! Hope they can make the system requirements reasonable though. The upcoming Chris Roberts game might need a complete pc upgrade lol.

:P

Kikoni · Post by **Kikoni** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:40 pm

From post: 147789, Topic: tid=9946, author=sundalo wrote:Hope they can make the system requirements reasonable though. The upcoming Chris Roberts game might need a complete pc upgrade lol.:P

Considering there were a few lines on the re-boot's Kickstarter page saying they were going to push the modern-day PC to it's limits, like Elite did with the computers of its time, I think we may all be in for an upgrade.

Here's hoping, though, that they decide on something, like you said, a little more reasonable.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:58 pm

Wow!. Coooool, thanks for sharing!.....

_-Caleb-_ · Post by **_-Caleb-_** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:05 pm

This is a GREAT new

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:04 pm

Never played Elite very much but was amazed by Frontier on atari st. Greats news indeed

.

DynamicRanger · Post by **DynamicRanger** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:45 pm

I'm skeptical, actually. On the Kickstarter page, Braben writes:

I want a game that feels more like the original â€œEliteâ€� to fly...

and, speaking about Frontier:

I loved the richness of the galaxy, but with the benefit of hindsight I think the way the ships flew detracted from the joyous immediacy of those in â€œEliteâ€�.

I think he's planning on making a Privateer or Freelancer type game, which is fine, but there are a few of those revival games in the works. I was hoping for a big budget, high spec version of what the space sim genre never really got a chance to produce: essentially EM with an at-your-own-pace AA quest line, 100x funding and high production values to show for it, 10x players (especially if we keep the quality of players intact), infinite replayability, with gameplay inspired by real spaceflight.

I don't know about you, but I am bored to death of WWII dogfights in space. As far as piloting small spacecraft is concerned, I think SW games have it just about perfect. As for cap ships, large transports, etc., I'd prefer a game that uses submarines as the analogy, instead of surface ships.

But I'm just ranting now; it doesn't help that I've been comparably disappointed by the answers Chris Roberts has given to questions about Star Citizen. He seems a lot more timid and unimaginative than Vice when it comes to the technical side. He thinks a seamless gameworld is impossible---using whatever FTL is present loads a separate instance, as does landing on a planet.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:50 pm

I don't know about you, but I am bored to death of WWII dogfights in space. As far as piloting small spacecraft is concerned, I think SW games have it just about perfect. As for cap ships, large transports, etc., I'd prefer a game that uses submarines as the analogy, instead of surface ships.

But I'm just ranting now; it doesn't help that I've been comparably disappointed by the answers Chris Roberts has given to questions about Star Citizen. He seems a lot more timid and unimaginative than Vice when it comes to the technical side. He thinks a seamless gameworld is impossible---using whatever FTL is present loads a separate instance, as does landing on a planet.

Same feeling here. Well you can't change Chris Roberts mind : WW2 dogfights in space and the eye-candy thing is what he only does the best and he 's well known for that. At least SC attracts new players to the genre.

Sadly most people who like space sims enjoy these action-paced ones with an easy learning curve and a few enjoy "realistic" sims with newtonian physics like Evochron, Frontier or I-War .

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:40 pm

I have more hope now

:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JYRyhx ... r_embedded

matthewfarmery · Post by **matthewfarmery** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:58 pm

I still can;t say Im impressed, it seems they are rushing out content, and if that is the case, why not have taken a month or two to get the engine more polished? then they could have started the KS with a lot more videos, planned it a lot better, with videos saying about the different aspects of the game?

this just seems rushed, a member on another forum posted this as a response

This project seems like it was rushed to "the presses" before it was ready to present, which may explain the long 60 day period. This does beg the question; if your project isn't ready to be presented yet, then why not wait until it's ready to start the campaign?

very true,

even if the game is farther in development as they first made us thought, why couldn't they have posted this video during the first week? it would have gone a long way to stop backers pulling pledges and raising concerns,

I pulled my pledge for many reasons, I will not re - back this project now, they still lost my vote and confidence, the video does nothing to ease my fears, and the game might still be MP focused

I will wait until its in the bargain bins, won't back it now

[Edited on 11-24-2012 by matthewfarmery]

matthewfarmery · Post by **matthewfarmery** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:37 pm

I just thought I would let you lot know of a recent development, a community manager has signed up to answer any questions people might have about ED on the egosoft forums,

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 18#3988618

I put my concerns to him, and I guess he done what he can to answer,

but I raise your attention to my concern that been nagging in my head about balance

he has confirmed that for SP and MP, they will share the same code, (which I had a very nasty feeling this would be the case)

now he said that balance wouldn't be a concern, but I think this is a very big concern, it also seems to confirm that the game is MP based too, but any changes / nerfs that they do to the weapons and ships, will effect MP AND SP!!!

and there will be PVP, so really, saying that balance doesn't matter, is silly, of course balance matters, no one wants to go up against a OP ship with a OP weapon combo, right? so changes and nerfs will happen, I bet a lot of money this will be the case, saying that you can play with friends or alone, when they do plan on rebalancing the game, means your ship will automatically be effected too, there will be no way around that, so yeah, one of my biggest fears has been confirmed,

like D3 and how blizzard are nerfing every class going, to make them balanced for MP, C&C3, very good example of a SP game been rebalanced for MP, and you try and play C&C3 with the 1.09 patch for SP, and many missions nearly the end is damn impossible because they didn't care less to keep the code separate

I raised a few other points there, but one of my biggest is balance, and it looks like the game will be online and MP focused, so I was right all along whern I feared it would be

sorry to say, I have no interest of ever buying this game now

[Edited on 11-30-2012 by matthewfarmery]

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:32 pm

Thanks for sharing the link (and kudos to Egosoft for allowing a representative from another future competitor on their forums).

I must say that I can't understand why you think that SP and MP sharing the same code could effect the game 's balance as Elite Dangerous is a sandbox game like Evochron, not a story-driven game like Diablo. Granted there isn't a permanent persistent world on Evochron. But still you can begin a session on single-mode, save your play, launch your save on any server online available with no effects at all on the way you're playing the game during the process.

I think it will be the same with ED except you'll be permanently online.

matthewfarmery · Post by **matthewfarmery** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:01 pm

well I did bring up a few examples, yes its a sand box game, but I think the problem is, if players start using a combo of ship that is OP, and those that have the devs ear complain a lot, then that said ship will be nefed, and any patches they do will effect both SP and MP, if they are going something like a minecraft approach, as minecraft now has MP and SP code combined, so patches for one now effect the other, which is good for this type of game

but maybe it will be like EM / L, but you are forgetting, ED will have a lot more ship options, the military ships in the EL / M series you couldn't really enhance that much, but I think in ED they will allow for more options, like different weapon systems, and what not,

it's still a concern, that any changes that effect balance might end up effecting SP, on your own, making it tougher, I guess I could be wrong, but I did bring up a few examples of games where the MP ruled, and SP was put on the sldelines, yes ED will be a sandbox game, but you still still be facing the AI, and probably a lot of AI ships too,

I hope I'm wrong, but the way that it was explained doesn't really get my hopes up at all

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:08 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5 ... detailpage

EDIT: Viper mentionned the issue that this embedded video can't been displayed on this thread as the Html feature is disabled.
So here is the url video instead.

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by Munshine]

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by Munshine]

matthewfarmery · Post by **matthewfarmery** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:33 pm

not sure what your trying to say there?

but I will put it this way, even though SP was mentioned in the latest dev video, that explains about been able to assassinate people, choose what faction you want to side with or go up against, my problem is, while SP was mentioned, it looked like the game was or does seem to be heavily focused on MP, and the more they show, the more they are convincing me this will be a Guild Wars 2 game, where your actions effect and indluence the universe

this is why I have concerns about balance, that all the ships will be balanced for MP, especailly those that have direct ear to the devs whining that some ships are OP and such what,

fine they haven't really said much on the AI, as it doesn't exist yet, but the updates don't really convince me the game will be a SP game, there are many elements already changed or removed to suit SP anyway, luike the stardreamer,

butn I think the videos themselves don't convince me that the game will work as fully ass a MP game, and to get the most from it, you do need to join factions, do PVP to get the most from it, I really wish, they would at least in some way, say, this is how the game will work in SP and MP, but the more I see the more its seems to me, heavily MP focused, unless they start convincing me otherwise

edit

in the video you linked, but got a lot of code wrapped around it, I like the idea, but like I said, the whole thing seems to be very MP focused, if you are playing SP, your not going to probably have the same thing?

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by matthewfarmery]

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by matthewfarmery]

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:28 pm

Difficult to argue with you what the balance between SP and MP would be as at this early stage, we got not even an alpha hands on.

I would agree that since the beginning of the ED's crowfunding campaign comparing the Star Citizen one, we don't have enough information updates and at a very low pace.

And that the Frontier Dev team isn't doing very well at the PR thing to say the least. Nevertheless they keep improving themselves and I hope we will get more details in the next weeks.

As for the stardreamer feature, personnally I won't miss it. It was totally unreliable as your ship could easily blow up for whatever weird reason.

matthewfarmery · Post by **matthewfarmery** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:15 pm

yeah its possible I might be jumping the gun with balance, if I am, then I will admit I am wrong, but everything we have seen so far of ED, keeps pointing to MP this, MP that, even the latest vid again points to MP focused, but I still think even if they haven't got around writing the AI, they could have clearly writen how the game will work compared to MP and SP, as it just seems you do have to play online to play ED, even the community managers response to the balance question says, that it won't matter as you can start in different locations and such what,

I feel the game is heavily focused on MP and they just not really giving people clear cut answers, as for DB himself, he only seems to answer questions that he wants too, he only seems to be very selective on who he answers

I also did bring up the issue of flaming on the ED comments, that seems to have been ignored, but I have personally seen at least 4 people, probably more overall, getting teared to pieces on the ED comments if you pull a pledge and say sao, I also was, to me, FD could have easy have nipped that in the bud, but I really question why it not been addressed? as there has been some very nasty remarks said to people, if they do pull their pledges, but FD could have easy said

"please stop it with the flaming or attacking people who pull out, as they have a right too"

something like that could have gone a long way to keeping the comments thread nice and happy, but sometimes, just sometimes it can get vindictive and nasty, ED would have seen this for a long time now, but they not stopped it, and I really question why this is?

could it be, because it helps to inflate FD and DB over inflated egos? or do they enjoy reading people who are getting flamed, as they don't want people to leave, and that the flaming is some way of helping keep them there? I really don't understand it at all, to me this one of the worst aspects of the whole KS, even if people don't read the comments, maybe later they do, I'm not saying everyone is nasty, far from it, but certainly a few are, not helping in the long run either

don't get me wrong I want ED to succeed, but right now, with the run up to Christmas / UK January sales, I wonder how many of those that have upped their pledges will soon realise they really need the cash afterall?

so really even the timing I think is very suspect, while the community manager might be answering some questions, I still think there is a general lack of information about the game, how it will work, I'm am still really unsure if the game will be that good

OK star dreamer wasn't perfect but did get the job done, but conssder this, it seems from what they said, they will use some kind of jump point system, that you can jump around to different areas, as they covered anti ganking measures, but this leads to to another issues which I just thought off, the stardreamer allowed you to explore the whole system, (any system) useless for going to one star to another. BUT, I really wonder how large the systems will really be? will there be multi star systems? will the system be seamless? or will each planet be boxed in, and the only way to get to each planet will be by jumping around?

in LT, systems will be seamless, but getting to different star systems will require a wormhole or jumpdrive, but this game will more be like Freelaqncer then elite, but I also wonder if planets and stations will be fixed? (do they follow an orbit or fixed in place static?

so really, there is a lot of information that really needs to be said, the more I think about it, the less I think ED will be like Frontier, flawed game, but was good even though it was rushed, but I still wonder if ED will really be as good as people might make it out to be?

so honestly, until they start telling people stuff, on how the universe dynamics will work, I still am very unconvinced ED will leave up to the hype that is currently surrounding it, (what hype there currently is,

at least with PE, OE were very open, this is the style FD should take, same with RSI, again very open,

and while they have their reasons, I still think playing for having access to the devs ear at Â£75 is a bad idea, and may very well alienate those that can't afford it, and not everyone can

but I will leave it there and see what other information they decide to release, but really the clock is starting to tick against them now, sure they are over half way, but I still maintain I think the second month will be ED killer, unless FD start been more open then they are now

edit

I think another issue with ED is, the game will be MP, that is, there is another game that I think pretty much has done what DB is trying to do, that is EVE online, it seems that the two games could very well be similar, another point is, while the stardreamer isn;t perfect, it did allow speeding up and pausing time, so if you do play offline, SP, will they allow you to have back the stardreamer? no, I seriously doubt it, so really how will the missions be structured? probably the same as in eve online I guess, I never played the game, so I have no knowledge on how missions work in that, but in ED, packages and time limited missions I don''t see happening, as you will be able to travel to any star system in reach in a blink of the eye, taking 7 days ingame time (for example) can't exist, and you can also warp to any play in EVE and use stargates to travel to different solar systems, (which links each sector to each other),

So the ability to travel around from star system to star stem in a brink of an eye from any other star system, as they won't I guess be linked in the same fashion as EVE, so could this very well pose a balance issue in itself, lets say you were trying to control a sector, or maybe a station, but the ability to keep launching attacks from any star system, could very well be really annoying and starts to break gameplay, I think the use of star gates, which if Im right, means that one sector could only be linked to say several sectors at once, and so if you are in a safe zone, to attach that sector, the enemy factor would have to go through several other sectors to get to you, thus keeping things fair, been able to jump to any star system from another other star system, (as long as you have the range) I could easy see causing a lot of problems, an even the video shown in the latest update, about building a station and seeing it effect the universe around it, but how? people won't be able to play 24/7, sure some might, but many won't, but even then, no ones going to wait around to see a station getting built if it takes a week or more for the station to be started and more to get it built,

I'm, not sure if you can build your own stations in EVE, but as time will pass as the same time as real time, ? I guess they could speed it up a bit, say 12 hours ingame for 24 hours real time, but I can see this getting messy, slow and boring, and people having to wait around for the good stuff to happen? anyone agree with this or have other thoughts on how this might work? or has experience in EVE and say could things really improve? or is EVE done everything right and can't really be improved? but the more I see, the more I feel the game will be MP and focused on MP, as SP will be boring as hell

the big thing is, you can't speed up or pause time in a MMO, so this will apply to whatever SP game they also create, but I think without the speeding of time, the game will get pretty boring,

I think FD should have called ED Elite online, for all the good its doing and freely admit, the game is for MP and be done with it

edit 2

sure we have been waiting for a new Elite, and such what, but I really think what FD will give us is EVE, and offline eve, and what made Frontier so great and special will be lost, nothing from that community manager tells me otherwise, if we really want a new frontier, it has to be SP and SP only, what we are getting or will get will be very different and simply not frontier in the slightest

[Edited on 12-2-2012 by matthewfarmery]

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:40 pm

Well since the beginning of the kickstarter campaign, it was clear (at least for me) that Elite Dangerous was more like Elite and less like Frontier.

From my point of view, the Frontier 's strong features were the realistic physics especially the seamless landing ,the trading system, the factions with the contracts system, the huge number of ships and upgrades
. Obvious flaws were the stardreamer which was a real pain because of its unpredictable behavior (collisions with asteroids, planets, failed assassination contracts, endless interruptions with pirates and no way to evade ), the realistic but boring, extremely difficult combat mechanics.

Now if you take Evochron, you don't need to look that far to understand that Elite Dangerous could still be a fun game even if it's less realistic than Frontier without a stardreamer, without a true orbitary system.

In Evochron universe, you travel generally from a system to another using jump gates, hidden wormholes. But it's feasible to do it with the autopilot, it only takes hours. I assume that it would be the same in ED.

Obviously it's up to FD to make it this way.

I don't know how the galaxy would evolve dynamically in SP like in MP though. That 's my main concern. it's fair to say that it couldn't , I guess.

Unless it's artificial : " a station is build, officials come in, officials come out, it's destroyed after some months, repeat again" which would be ridiculous.

matthewfarmery · Post by **matthewfarmery** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:22 pm

which is why I think been able to jump from any system from any system in range, would be unfair, I think the sectors / wormholes / jumpstations idea would be a better fairer system, otherwise I think stations getting destroyed simply because you can must an army, play that army in close range to the station, then jump and warp in, destroy the station and hyperdrive out, so all that time building the station is wasted, I don't think any station that is player owned will last long enough, or be built and survive long enough to really make a difference, at least the wormhole / jumpstatiion system of EVE (as I looked it up) means that systems are only connected to a limited amount of other systems, so to get an army / navy to derstroy a station would be a lot harder,

and I think people will get frustrated with this, as I can see sectors changing hands at a rate of knots, and brings up another kind of balance, unless some areas are set to PVE and others PVP, but for those that are PVP, would be under attack a lot, and building stuff in any PVP zone will be pointless

but yeah, the game seems to be an offline version of Elite and an online version of EVE, but will stuff like jumping from one system to another, take some time, (ingame time) or be instant? this I really want to know, if it did still take say several days to a week to get to places, then maybe it could still work for timed missions, but it would still be nice to speed up time for occasions, just to help speed things up when the assassination target leaves the station, (and that is the other concern, will these types of missions have a countdown timer?) or maybe set to the ingame time close? but I do think the whole concept of destroying and building stations by players will not work in practice, in this respect DB is leaving in a dream world, it won't be feasible, or practical, as stations won't be up long enough or takes too long to build the fecker,

so maybe ED could be very much like EM, if they go that route, but I feel they will have to use the wormhole / jumpstation and have systems linked to each other, otherwise its just going to be very unfair and hard to police

sundalo · Post by **sundalo** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:54 am

Anyone pledge ED for a digital copy yet?

Slayer · Post by **Slayer** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:24 pm

That looks really cool! I never got a chance to play the original or Frontier, so it'd be nice to try an updated version. Although, I did try Oolite and Pioneer and couldn't grasp the controls ...

Dagran · Post by **Dagran** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:45 pm

Oolite is awesome! Much simpler controls compared to evo mercenary and you can always mod and expand the game.

Dagran · Post by **Dagran** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:45 am

Woot, just made a pledge for ED with the imperial bounty hunter package! Oolite and EM until then. Any other backers here?

[Edited on 12-28-2012 by Dagran]