Complaint against the community [REDACTED]

EN4CER · Post by **EN4CER** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:57 pm

Because all of the other clans have so many members and refuse to allow even a single territory across any server to be taken I am finding it very disheartening to keep playing multiplayer as a new clan. I'll keep 'pirating' sectors which basically means I attack it until there is a server wide and sometimes cross server defense of the territory.

Basically what I'm saying is that your community is so tight knit and controlling that a very active and willing new player is near the verge of quitting due to the difficulty of coming into the community. I've been active on the forums and have talked to several of you via U2U.

I was even bullied on Starport 6 the day before I left. I killed a pilot who had done several missions in what was my territory at the time even if only by 10 or so %. After destroying him a few pilots login and have some PvP. They go right to the point of griefing and tell me not to kill that pilot ever again and then that pilot logs in and kills me. Wowwwww.

So I just wanted to say I'll giving the multiplayer one more week. If I find that new clans still aren't welcome and that I will be picked on for simply playing the game then I will quit playing and never bother with the expansion. You are literally shooting yourselves in the foot by being mean to the new guys. I'm a lot more resilient than most but everyone has a limit.

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by EN4CER]

Edited due to language

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by thetiebers]

[Edited on 8-21-2012 by EN4CER]

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:24 pm

Hello EN4CER, in some ways you may be right but please don't give up. There are limited main systems in the Sim but there are unlimited nearby systems to claim. I as [UE] Clan leader once claimed 7 systems but gave up all but one so as to allow the growth of new Clans. Your clan in trying to take the only system we kept was unacceptable to us. We may seem like a small Clan such as yours but we do have good allies which is what part of the Sim is about. If you would like help in establishing a territory of your own in an unclaimed sector on StarPort 6 or Galactica 1 then Clan [UE] would be glad to help if we can.

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by thetiebers]

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:27 pm

I understand completely what you mean. There are clans that get pissed off if someone tries to steal from them. These clans sometimes have lots of allies, so it is extremely difficult for new clans to go aggressive against them.
Honestly I support the idea of the grinning skulls completely. I think it can be an excellent addition to the evochron universe. I even heard that you were planning to take over territory of my own clan. Even though you as a new clan stand little chance against a veteran clan, you are more than welcome to fight us anytime.

You must know that lots of clans, including the Freedom Fighters, started out as a new clan while there were lots of veteran clans already playing. right now we own the most territory of any clan out there, and we're able to keep it.

To become a successful and powerful clan, you need to take your time and dedicate yourself to it. Recruit people until you have a good crew that will stay by your side.
Learn how to fight, teach your members, build up an army and then you can start going to war. Nobody can win a clan war right off the bat, with no experience and few members.

I look forward to battling you and your pirate clan when you are ready.

Sincerely
[FF] Splosives, fleet admiral of the Freedom Fighters clan

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by -splosives-]

Capt_Caveman · Post by **Capt_Caveman** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:27 pm

did you take that territory from someone else ?
was the other pilot a clan member ?
what teritory / system was it ?

oops 2 replies before i could post lol

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by capt_cronic]

EN4CER · Post by **EN4CER** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:32 pm

That's greatly appreciated and I'll definitely take you up on that offer. It addresses half of the complaint which was written in anger as most are. I had a week of vacation to think about what happened that last night and I had a ton of fun in the 'battle of iota'. Like Seejay said everyone flew well and most of the server actually left us alone at about 10%.

It was what happened afterward that really angered me. Being told that I'll be griefed for attacking a pilot that was doing contracts in what was a PvP conflict zone and at the time my own territory. I won't bother tattling names as I assume we're all big boys and if they want to remain anonymous then so be it. They also accused ME of being the bully. I wish I had recorded the chat logs but suffice to say I was flabbergasted by the reverse accusation.

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by EN4CER]

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:37 pm

Anyone accusing a pirate for killing innocents is missing the point.
I would defend innocents in FF territory from pirates, but I would never make it personal.
This is what pirates do...they pirate. I would even encourage you to keep doing what youre doing.
It might be good to let the people know you're a pirate first.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:48 pm

I can only support what TBird has said, Splosives as well. At one time, the StarWolves held 17 systems, known and unknown alike. We gave up all but a few, in order that others may do as they pleased in the Evo-Verse. I know because I performed the majority of the de-militarizing effort, at a rather phenominal cost. The Starwolves now hold only two systems on a single platform, and one system is pretty much on waivers as we speak. Although our pilots are scattered across planet Earth, and some are MIA, the Starwolves will survive and thrive regardless of what others may do. For such is our nature. Seriously though, if you'd like help getting established, I'm sure that something may be arranged or accommodated. Please don't rage-quit.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:46 pm

Life has always been "first come, first served" ... and, thereafter, it's usually buy or bully your way in. IM has often offered one or more of our star systems to new clans ... free. No need to bully. 'Though, for choice property, we'd require some kind of compensation.

As for grief ... it depends. Each server has its own R.O.E. and, if you fail to adhere to it, you'll get dumped on. Any other kind of grief is role-playing (or should be) and pilots must take the criticism with a large grain of salt. Just don't make it personal.

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:56 pm

Hey EN4CER, I understand what you're saying, and I know it can be difficult for a new player to establish a clan. But as Splosives says it takes time and patience to build up a clan with territory. Once you've got 2 or 3 other clan members you can start warring with other clans for territory. It is natural for a clan to defend territory and bring in allies too, so you need to build up some allies of your own.

With regards to other players giving you bad vibes, that is unfortunate, but there will always be some sourpuss who gets too serious about what is really just a game. I hope you don't let a few individuals put you off this great game!

As Tbird says clan UE will support you in trying to establish a presence, although we won't just give over territory

But we neither will we persecute you to the point of leaving the MP server.

My advice would be to start off as a clan without territory (like BA clan) and just go on pirate sprees through other clan territories. Pirates are troublemakers and other players should play along with that for the fun of it. If a player is overly hostile to you for roleplaying your character then that is a real shame... people should lighten up a bit! I for one like the idea of the risk of being attacked by pirates. As long as you aren't rude and bring a little humour to your character roleplaying then a pirate clan makes a great contribution to the game!

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:45 pm

I honestly think the community should not treat this lightly.
There is something seriously unbalanced in the community leaving new players feeling left out in the cold.

I started seeing this happen with the influx of new players when
EM first became available on steam.
It is heartbreaking to see new players leaving because the community has become so closed.

Free up some space and dont be so sensitive if a new clan
"plays the game" and you know, fights for territory.
Actually playing the clan war game should be encouraged,
Or is the EM "clan game" a game of system maintenance only?

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:29 pm

Exactly, miaz. But the problem, however, is that the veteran clans all have very experienced players. So the new clans that want to play the clan war game will most likely get wiped out. that way they will become discouraged to go any further.
At the other hand, the veteran clans can't just "let the new guys win", because this accomplishes nothing.
One of the main reasons why [FF] has so much territory is because more clans would attack us for it, and that way we get to fight.

Also, there are always ways to start a new clan and be succesful.
When [FF] started, Hawkeye was the only member that had any experience with the game, and he had barely ever fought in PvP before.
All of our other members were new people that joined after evochron came on steam. We were dedicated, we developed our own PvP tactics, we taught them to our newer players, and eventually we became a successful clan.

New clans, like TGS, need more time to get members and practice PvP combat before they go out and look for fights with the big guys.

[Edited on 8-18-2012 by -splosives-]

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:02 pm

I really enjoyed fighting you guys when
I helped out UE defending their system.

I really hope you stick around.
HB will assist in any way, as long as
it does not conflict with our allies.

HB left systems Onyx, Orion, Sirius
and Rigel on Galactica 1. Feel free to
grab any or all if you want.
There shouldn't be any hidden stations
there. Clean it up and go to work.

I don't think they are claimed by others
yet. We are willing to be an ally of yours
if you are interested in that.

Catch you out there.
/SeeJay

EN4CER · Post by **EN4CER** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:30 pm

The inability to claim territory was ignorance on my part. Splosives educated me a bit in uncharted sectors and also identified a couple of charted ones that could be taken. The out of character hostility from those pilots are a couple of rotten apples in an otherwise good bunch of guys. My apologies for coming off so angry. I do feel that if the post wasn't made I would have quit playing multiplayer due to the exclusiveness.

Yeah SeeJay that was by far the most fun I've had in Evochron so far. I was grinning ear to ear the entire time we were warping station to stations trying to keep up with all of the attackers/defenders. I hope to keep instigating more space battles like that and who knows maybe I can start scheduling the attacks likes the jousts are so that everyone can attend and participate in a little bit of PvP together.

Thanks for the support everyone and thanks Splosives for the in-game education and bit of hand holding that all of us newbies need every once in a while. I'll see you guys out there.

Busch · Post by **Busch** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:06 pm

And everybody took a deep breath, let it out, and slowly walked away shaking their heads...........

Post by **DaveK** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:25 pm

I suppose part of the issue is that known systems with gates and everything are the preferred real estate and are (relatively) rare. Uncharted systems being uncharted are unknown to newbies who may not even realise that they exist!

It's good to see some established clans giving up some charted systems for others to use - new clans find the convenience of gates attractive just as much as the old timers.

I've been out of the loop for the duration of this little fracas but it's good to see that there has been a happy ending for all - we are a small community and friendly which means that long time players know each other and it might seem that we are therefore "closed". I have never known requests for help or info or advice being ignored - but clans do sometimes seem to awaken a tendency to lose sight of the fact that this is actually just a (very enjoyable) game!

I hope to fly with you sometime EN4CER

KingArthur · Post by **KingArthur** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:44 am

Let Me See If I Understand You EN4CER. You're UPSET that a CLAN, Who Has WORKED HARD, Spent CREDITS and COUNTLESS HOURS of Maintenance WON'T Let Your Clan, Would That Be [SG],[TGS],[STG] Or ANY of the MANY ClanTags You Fly By, let You SIEZE A SYSTEM FROM THEM.

Is That Correct?

YOU MUST BE DELERIOUS to Think a Clan Would Simply "GIVE" You a SYSTEM. If You WANT a SYSTEM of Your Own , Find an UNCLAIMED ONE, there are Many, Construct the 50 Stations Max, Contract it Up to 100% "Your Clan" And Maintain It. It Shouldn't Take You More than A FEW HOURS STRAIGHT WORK To Get This Done, and, Wa La, You Have a SYSTEM.

There is a "UNWRITTEN RULE" Clans Tend to Go By. It's Called the "50% RULE". Any System that DOES NOT HAVE AT LEAST 50% Clan Ownership is an UNCLAIMED SYSTEM. By Your Logic you Could Do a Single Contract (1%) In SEVERAL SYSTEMS And They'd ALL BE YOURS. Sorry, It Doesn't Work That Way. You Have to Put TIME, MONEY and SWEAT Into a System to Make it YOURS.

The DEFINITION of "GREIFING" Is the UNPROVOCED KILLING OF A PILOT MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW. The Pilots Who ATTACKED YOU In Defence of Your "VICTIM" Were HONORABLE In ASSISTING HIM.

You Can Give the Game Another DECADE and STILL NO CLAN Will Allow You To "SEIZE" One of Their SYSTEMS UNCHALLENGED. How You Can Think They Would Truly BAFFLES ME.

There are MANY POST that Provide Information to New Pilots like You About Almost EVERYTHING. Find The One that's Titled "Information Regarding Clans". It's a GOOD READ, Very INFORMATIVE. I Should KNOW, I WROTE IT.

We ARE A Tight Knit Community who ALWAYS WELCOMES NEW PILOTS who DON'T VIOLATE OTHER PILOTS or CLANS. You Are MORE THAN WELCOME To Continue MP, Find an Unclaimed System, and Start Your EMPIRE. It Takes WORK To CONTROL A SYSTEM. Put In The WORK, CONTROL Your Own SYSTEM.
That's The ONLY WAY SYSTEM CONTROL IS ACHIEVED............WORK!

I'm GLAD [FF]splosives Explained This To You.

See You Out There.

[Edited on 8-20-2012 by KingArthur]

Janus · Post by **Janus** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:30 am

My advice is to recruit, recruit, recruit. Don't move before you are ready. Learn PvP, Learn combat against AI, earn a lot of money. Once you have enough people and they are fairly capable at PvP and your members can fight AI's effectively, and have enough money so you can build stations, do one of two things.
1. Find a minor system that is unclaimed, bring your percentage to 50% or more and then maintain it.
2. Decide on a major system you want and invade. And if you get your thrusters handed to you, don't get discouraged. Analyze what went wrong. Consider it a learning experience. Take what you have learned to get better and then you'll be stronger the next time you choose to invade whether it be the same system or one belonging to another clan.

But most of all, remember: This is a game.

Janus

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:48 am

This whole thread seems like the kind of gibberish and balderdash that started the first world war. Anyways, attack and claim whichever systems you like. If they want the system they will do as they must to protect... but you have to be willing to accept the consequences.

Major Grubert · Post by **Major Grubert** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:06 am

I guess being an active and efficient clan take time.

I do create a clan but not recruiting now, so i'm not acting as a clan, only as wanabe

and during this time i do lots of search for a great home base, a minor system with such a poetic name of XD0332 or T457, i'm looking for a nice place, not so far from center but not so crowded so...

but dont give up man, this game is great, peoples are cool, just remember some of them know this game since long, oooolllddddd guys in space

more young clans for compete on mp is better, more servers, more players, more fun

just give it some time if you can

Bossk · Post by **Bossk** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:49 pm

Ah, the age old discussion. This has cropped up many times and this is the reason Clan BA never claim territory. Its just not worth it. We are a small, but well respected clan that most people know and are aware of our role playing of being trouble makers. However, I have said it before that unless clans accept that they can loose territory just as easily as gaining it then this will go around and around infinitum.

Clan A joins in and gets territory because Clan B who originally had were not able to keep up the influence. So? Tough. Clan B missed out. Clan A turns up and spanks Clan B in a series of CvC. So? Tough. That's war. Clan B can get allies and fight back and take their land back from Clan A.

Getting and keeping are 2 different things.

Clans and players need to understand that its not all shiny and happy out there. The clans gain territory at the end of a laser cannon by blowing away the AI that are there, and so they can loose it.

CvC is, and will always be, about either building alliances to make you strong or making sure you have a stick bigger than the other guy.

It is not fair that players moan to a pilot who has advertised that he is a pirate in public about the way he plays his game. Its role play. Us "pirate" clans don't moan to the "civilised" clans about the way they play, so just let it be. It all adds to the mix of what is a great game.

Space is harsh and should remain that way, but us a players need to take a step back and accept each other as lovers of the same game.

Nuff said.

Bossk out! xx

Nubarus · Post by **Nubarus** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:22 pm

The whole clan thing is one giant game killer for many players on various levels, that's why ppl leave and why the community is so tiny.

Not to mention that maintaining a system is about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Then there is the non existant clan wars that just adds a weird smell to the whole stew.
It just doesn't go beyond a few 1 on 1 duels and blowing up stuff while the other clan is not there or just 1 person online.

Whood die doo........

Back to Battlefield 3 for me, where actual team warfare is conducted.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:37 pm

Amen to what Bossk said.
We don't mind players trying to take our territory, because that means we could get some nice PvP action.
I even challenged all clans to take over Thuban, but only clan PC and clan SW responded to this call.
They know what real fun is! There are other clans, however, that don't know this, and all they do is maintain their systems and form alliances with every other clan.
That way they will never get into the fun stuff.

I say clan TGS is a blessing to the evochron universe that can turn out into a perfect opponent for the other clans, if they're given the chance.

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:30 pm

Dear En4cer,

Check the EM logs and you will see that I was just like you except very disliked that was until I had to build, maintain, patrol my own quadrant. Once I was in King Arthur's, sploves, Marvin, Bush and other clan leaders shoes I said forget about it! The hours of dedication the millions of credits and the maintainance just wasn't for me. This is why you have so much resistence from the clans because of all the hours of dedication. Go to LL and see how much time King Arthur puts in? Which explains his passionate answer to you.
My suggestion is for you to join on Team Speak and PvP with us. What you will find is a group of great people who will laugh with you or at me. We have a great time the guys who disliked me (I think) now like me. Our PvP battles are a blast. I am sure if you wanted a quadrant the guys would give you one (it won't be the one you want but its a start), they did for me and in less then two weeks I gave it back and my clan days were over.
Flash, Captain Cronic and I are not in clans but we will help our friends by putting clan tags on and fight the good fight. If you quit this great game then you let yourself down because you didn't try or put yourself in the other guys shoes. You could also be like Bossk of the BA clan and be a clan of pirates. Please join us in our nightly PvP and TS jousts. Remember this is just a game and it is suppose to be fun. Like splosives & Janus said having a warring clan would be awesome but you will have to recruit, recruit recruit or face annihilation! Now thats fun.
Look at all replies to your complaint? We want you stay and play.

[Edited on 12-25-2008 by Star King]

[Edited on 12-25-2008 by Star King]

EN4CER · Post by **EN4CER** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:15 pm

I felt pretty good about the thread and the situation in general. Sorry to have upset you Arthur? There was a lack of understanding on my part that I claimed as ignorance. I've since been educated and said as much before you suggested I do so. Reading back on the thread it's a bit of a fit but what can you do. It still perfectly portrays the frustration of a new player even if the cause is ignorance rather than community.

I have to admit this right here:

The DEFINITION of "GREIFING" Is the UNPROVOCED KILLING OF A PILOT MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW. The Pilots Who ATTACKED YOU In Defence of Your "VICTIM" Were HONORABLE In ASSISTING HIM.

That's a problem. I killed a pilot 1 time after he completed contracts in what was my territory. I didn't know you went by some unstated 50% rule and I still won't play by it. Until Janus or god forbid Evochron base rules change some unspoken rule about "50% makes it yours" won't stand especially since the territory was at 100% TGS before the battle. My original post was petty was and their response of threatening me if I ever kill that pilot again was beyond petty it was pathetic.

I planned to join the PvP and still do.

[Edited on 8-20-2012 by EN4CER]
edited due to wording.

[Edited on 8-20-2012 by thetiebers]

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:25 pm

En4cer looking forward to future PvP's and talking with you on TS.