Nav map design feedback and changes...

Post by **Vice** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:59 pm

Part of the expansion includes several changes and improvements to the UI system, particularly the consoles. I am also working on the NAV console to make it more legible and user friendly. Currently, these changes have been made or are being worked on:

- The #1 request I've received is for the nav map to be optionally bigger. So there will be a new zoom option for the in-sector map. This will let you magnify the map to fill about half of the entire screen, allowing the icons to be much larger, text spaced out (in the 'Text On' mode), more precision in nav/jump point selection, and higher detail. Zooming in/out with the mouse wheel will still be supported in this mode and zooming works with both the overhead view and rear view.

- Icons are being redesigned for more details and clarity.

- Sector borders will be highlighted in white to make sector selection and zooming an easier process to manage visually.

- Menu borders are being redesigned for a cleaner look and less jagged/cluttered appearance.

- Highlight buttons added to destination fields.

So if there is something else you'd like to see added to the map or changed, I'd be interested in reading your comments. I've already collected a lot of feedback over the past few years, which is guiding the design process now and resulting in the planned changes/improvements. But just to verify it is on the right track and to consider other options that may have been overlooked, I'm posting this thread for additional feedback.

The idea of a 3D nav map has come up several times over the years, but as many of you know, attempts at a 3D nav map several years ago just resulted in more user confusion and difficulty plotting precise nav/jump points. The idea has always been enticing on paper, but in application it hasn't performed very well for the type of precision point navigation system used in this game. So if you are interested in a 3D nav map, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how such a system might be implemented in the game. For example:

- Should it be just a visual option only? That is, just for 'eye candy' and not really serve a functional purpose?

- How would you like to see Y coordinate plotting handled on such a map? That is, should nav point plotting require some kind of multi-step 'wizard' process that requires the player to set the X and Z, then select the Y? Since Evochron utilizes fully selectable environments at/to any location in open space (not just icon clicking), this is a critical functionality element for any nav map used in the game.

- The list of required steps, layers, modes, etc, to plot precision nav points has generally been a significant obstacle for ease of use in the past when trying to integrate a 3D system into the game. How would you like to see the translation from a 2D mouse pointer to a 3D nav point take place to simplify this process?

- What are your thoughts on the 3D nav map option in Arvoch Alliance and would you like to see that approach taken for Evochron (with or without nav point plotting)?

[Edited on 2-23-2012 by Vice]

-Tristan- · Post by **-Tristan-** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:12 pm

I wouldnt mind a few changes- the ability to see ALL of a system on a page, for example- Olympus... Not just a quadrant or sector or w/e

Smaller self-location (ship) icon. Maybe it can be toggled? A nice yellow dot or blue vs the green for friendlies.

Maybe an ability to mouse over coord's in chat and see what system it is? I have YET to memorize system coord's

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:54 pm

I've tried plotting off a 3D map in other games and find it far clumsier than with the current method. But the 3D map display, similar to the one in Arvoch Alliance, would be a cool addition ... and allow new players, confused when they zoom in on the 2D sector map and find themselves staring at blank space, another way to view the map ... maybe one that will clue them into the fact that their target is out of plane.

And giving the sector map the same "make map bigger" ability as the quadrant map should help greatly when trying to find the proper jumpgate.

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:38 pm

I really would love to see a 3D map, but yeah mainly for the visual reference for where you (or clanmates) are in within the universe. The Ability to zoom in/out on the mouse pointer location with mouse wheel and rotate around while holding the right mouse button would be fantastic.

Then when you left click it would go in and work as the current 2D map does because it really is the best way for plotting accurately.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:57 am

I remember the first time I played the game when I was said to meet to New Hope. I search the destination for half an hour in the current view that I thought was the whole system. I even thought it was in another system with no idea how to jump to it.

So a 2D view of the whole system (maybe the rear view I'm not sure) where you are by default would be convenient. Then you could zoom in, setting a course to a particular place.

The main issue with the current 2D navmap, when you want to dock to a station or land on a planet, is sometimes you are misled. You are thinking that the navpoint is centered on the station or the landing point. It is not and you have to go in the rear view to correct that.

If the map was 3d with squares boxes at environnements (planets, nebula, stations, gates, objects) that you can tick, it would be more easy to find your way with your course set on a path between your ship and the destination point . Of course You will need to to alter the path with a temp navpoint avoiding collision with objects along the path if you are too far to jump directly to the destination.

[Edited on 2-24-2012 by Munshine]

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:11 am

Maybe the 3D map view should be default. From there you could pick either 2D, for navigation, or quadrant map, for orientation.

niksar · Post by **niksar** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:09 am

A 3D map just for reference would really help in orienting the player's position, especially if you could see your waypoint on it.

Also, it would be nice to be able to zoom in on any part of the current nav map using the mouse wheel as opposed to being limited to somewhere a navpoint is plotted or where the ship is located.

Being able to view other systems and explore them via nav map first by clicking on them in the quadrant map would also be nice.

Tarl · Post by **Tarl** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:20 am

First thing, thanks for doing this, Vice. I just purchased the game, but I've lurked your forums for years. This one feature (the NAV map; otherwise known as "where the heck am I and how to I get to where I want to go") has been a constant item for discussion forever.

Second thing, my best wishes as this must be a UI/programming nightmare : )

All that said, I think what people have said so far I can agree with. However, I will say that once I took the time to figure it out, the top view/rear view method of making sure that your nav point is correct is pretty quick and easy. But, I think it could be better and it sounds like you are on the right track.

What I've found that I'd like to see some changes (um, since I'm such a newbie, it's possible some of this already exists : )

1. Making the map larger would be awesome. The font's and graphics are just too squished together to really be fully usable. This could be partially due to the high resolution screens we now use.

2. Making the ability to zoom in more on the current sector would be great. While I can "sorta" get my nav point close to where I want it by using the top/rear view method, I'm still off a large amount (read - I have to travel a long time) due to not being able to place my marker in a more exact manner. So, my NAV marker looks like it's right next to that station, but in reality it's many kilometers off.

3. Along with making the map larger, what would be a joy is to be able to zoom and drag. So, pretty much like what is done with Google maps. Or, if not the "grab and drag" function, then maybe some arrows to click on to scroll the map one way or another. Moving around the map is kinda a chore now.

4. "Find" a location. So, we have this great map, an on board computer, and then we get some message saying "go to X/Y/Z". What I'd like to have is a way to type in those coordinates (clicking on them would be acceptable : ) into the destination boxes, click a"find" box, and the location would be marked on the map. You could then either have the map automatically center on that location, or the player could zoom out, see it blinking on the full map, and scroll zoom to the location. I hate to say this, but maybe you can already do that in the game and I just haven't figured it out? : )

5. Not sure how this fits into your question, but I'd really like to have a larger radar. It's very useful, except for the fact that I can't see it clear enough. It's too small (or, my eyes are too bad and/or my resolution of my screen is too high : ). But, it would be really handy to have it be able to pop up to twice it's size. As it is, I can't use it. And it sounds like it has some nice features.

6. With all the above, I don't really feel like I need a 3d Nav map. Especially if it is going to be a programing nightmare. I'd rather have you spend more time on world/planet development, walking in stations/planets, capital ships, more dynamic events based on what the player does (or, doesn't do : ), and, well, the list is long : )

THAT SAID, the only place that I've seen a 3d nav map done right was in Eve Online. Their star map (don't remember if that is the correct name) is to die for. Don't know if you've ever seen it, but it is awesome. Very useful, very elegant, very easy to use. If you haven't seen it, I'd humbly suggest taking up one of their free trials just so you could check it out.

7. There are some people who might think that some of the above new capabilities would make things "too" easy. Some of the enhancements could be added to the game as either the player rising to a certain level (so, getting experience) and/or purchasing additional navigational equipment (radar, comms, computers, antennas, etc.). So, make it part of the game. Obviously, more work for you.

Anyway, having a great time with your game and thanks for all the work. And thanks for taking the time to ask for our opinions.

Tarl

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:55 am

I do think that the map we have today is good with the rear view function.

A 3D map ability (eye candy) as an option like the one in Arvoch Alliance would be cool.

Another nice thing (don't know if that should go here thou) is the ability to store "unknown" systems/planets
found and displayed in the map as well.

Maybe also the ability for pilots to "share" there position so it is plotted on the map as a little ship
as long as the pilot plotted is "sharing" his position. Maybe even the option to share it for clan members only!?!

Post by **Vice** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:51 am

3. Along with making the map larger, what would be a joy is to be able to zoom and drag. So, pretty much like what is done with Google maps. Or, if not the "grab and drag" function, then maybe some arrows to click on to scroll the map one way or another. Moving around the map is kinda a chore now.

This is an interesting point. There are some players that want to be able to slide the map around (and in fact, some past design prototypes actually did this). But the problem with such an option is that you then lose the centering provided by the zoom in/out system. This results in the player wondering why they can't jump to a nearby sector they slid to after they lost track of how many sectors they panned in one direction or the other. And they've also lost track of the coordinates they select in a sector when the center is no longer 0,0, but could be something like 50500,87500.

Sliding the map around is still a possible option though, but based on past results/experiments, I may include an auto-centering function where the sector the player slides to auto-centers to coordinate 0X,0Z when they release the mouse button.

There are arrows that let you pan around the map while you are zoomed in as you describe. And there may be some players who may not be aware of that option or the right click to zoom in on other nearby sectors as well.

[Edited on 2-24-2012 by Vice]

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:00 am

From post: 131790, Topic: tid=8992, author=Tarl wrote:
3. Along with making the map larger, what would be a joy is to be able to zoom and drag. So, pretty much like what is done with Google maps. Or, if not the "grab and drag" function, then maybe some arrows to click on to scroll the map one way or another. Moving around the map is kinda a chore now.

4. "Find" a location. So, we have this great map, an on board computer, and then we get some message saying "go to X/Y/Z". What I'd like to have is a way to type in those coordinates (clicking on them would be acceptable : ) into the destination boxes, click a"find" box, and the location would be marked on the map. You could then either have the map automatically center on that location, or the player could zoom out, see it blinking on the full map, and scroll zoom to the location. I hate to say this, but maybe you can already do that in the game and I just haven't figured it out? : )

Tarl

Totally agree with these points especially with the grab and drag function. Perhaps named square boxes should be added to planets cities, trade stations, nebula, gates as destinations.

For the System 3d Map, I was thinking something similar to Frontier Elite 2 's 3D map that you can spin, zoom in and out with view centered by default on your ship, setting a course by clicking on the named square box of a city's landing location or of station's docking location. It doesn't have to be pretty but functional.

Of course, if it's a time consuming feature or too complicated, raising some technical issues that I can't see at the moment, we don't need it.

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:30 am

I mentionned the grab and drag thing in the things id like to see thread before so i agree with tarl. ALso, i'd like to be able to zoom in on a system I'm not currently in.

Tarl · Post by **Tarl** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:48 am

From post: 131807, Topic: tid=8992, author=Vice wrote:[quote]3. Along with .........................

There are arrows that let you pan around the map while you are zoomed in as you describe. And there may be some players who may not be aware of that option or the right click to zoom in on other nearby sectors as well.

[Edited on 2-24-2012 by Vice]

I think I've actually used those arrows to move around in. I'll have to get back in the game to be sure. If I remember correctly (always a rather risky proposition), I believe they were available when I was zoomed in all the way into my current sector (0,0,0; newbieland : ). I was able to use the arrow to go approximately -7 sectors on the x axis (to the left using the top view). Then it stopped. Why I remember is because I got a distress call that was from a planet at -9 sectors on the x axis.
Bottom line, I was unable to "scroll" (using the arrows) far enough to see what I needed to see. Assuming I remember all this correctly.
All that said, I'm sure that there are ways around that little sticking point, I just wasn't able to figure it out (yet : )

I hate to sound like a broken record, but Eve Online's star nav map implementation is just very nice. You can see where you are, twist the entire map (of thousands of stars) any which way you want, enter a search term for a planet/star/etc. Find that planet and click on "set course" (or whatever they call it) and the path to that star will be outlined from star to star. If you don't like the route (say, it takes you through low security systems), you can reroute it.

Once you click "go", you can do autopilot, or manually fly to each system. Once you get into a system, the next portal direction is highlighted in your HUD. You can trade/fight/etc.(unless you have autopilot engaged) until you are ready to continue on your journey. Or, you can bring up the star map and change your destinations. You can also set multiple destinations.

All that said, sorry for the wall of text, I don't need it. If we could just get the current map to be re-sizable and scrollable (of some sort or fashion), that would be great. I personally don't need a fully 3d map. It's really not necessary for this game. That's just my opinion. It's kinda necessary for Eve because it's got so many systems there is no way it would be workable without something like that. And, it has to have all that massive number of stars because is has massive numbers of people all on the same server.

Evochron is simpler. I like that. Each has it's place, I guess.

Also, I like the possibility of making things somewhat difficult. As an example, lets say you bring up the map. It shows Sapphire and 4 portals. And that's it. Nothing else shows up on the map until you go there. Okay, maybe that's a bit extreme : )

This plus having to purchase upgraded nav computer components, getting to a certain experience level, possibly having to have a certain type of ship, etc., would all keep it from making it too easy. I'm sure that there are a few vets that are laughing at the rest of us. I think that there is a valid argument about "dumbing down" a game to the point where it loses some of it's immersion/realism/whatever.

Again, that said, Evochron already has something similar. I think. That is, the current map shows some stars/planets, but not all (not sure of the percentage of visible vs hidden). So, that's a pretty good compromise (although personally, and it's just me, I think it shows too many). I'm still curious about what happens after you "discover" those hidden systems. Do they then appear permanently on your star map? Or, do you have to log the coordinates so you can find it again? I think I've seen some long threads on that, I've just forgotten the answer. Damn, I hate it when I forget to take my pills.

Anyway, Vice, my suggestion is to keep it simple and don't worry about too much eye candy.

However, it's your game : )

Thanks for letting us play it. I'm having a great time.

Tarl

theonetruedark · Post by **theonetruedark** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:28 pm

I don't want to encroach on this fantastic game, but I do have a few suggestions in mind.

I'm rather new to Evechron, didn't know it even existed until it popped up on Steam, so do forgive me if I repeat what has previously been discussed elsewhere in the depths of this forum.

I've been playing EM and loving it for about 150 hours so far, but there are a few things I think would add to the perfection.

The ability to target asteroids and stations is something I miss being able to. I know it might sound silly, but I always like my tracking computer keeping, well track of the stuff that's currently in my area of interest. I'd also like to be able to target individual cargo (jettisoned and otherwise) via my gunsights.

Sometimes, a confirmation dialog would've been nice before jettisoning gargo - which I'm sorry to say has happened quite a few times by mistake.

Well, perhaps it's just me..

A little more types of missions wouln't hurt either, but I know that's perhaps getting too needy.

Oh, and I'm way off topic here. Sry. We are talking about the nav-map.

While I do agree with Tarl that EVE Online's map is great - I'm not sure it'll apply to a game like EM where precision is key to navigating through a true 3D-environment. Especially when searching through systems for containers and other such secrets. I'm actually not sure a 3D-map would be a good idea in the first place. The flipping 2D-map works.

But I like the notion of being able to enlarge the map to full screen, like you can with the quadrant-map. It'll make it so much easier to find stuff and jump to exact coordinates just by clicking instead of typing. In fact, I'd like the nav-orb to be enlargeable as well from the cockpit. Sometimes it's difficult to see exactly what's what when a lot of ships are in that same direction you're looking at. Especially when playing at higher resolutions.
The targeting-list could be enlargeable aswell, to show more than 10 targets, and it would be really great if you could click on the names in it, to target that particular ship. Perhaps a little N for navy, R for rebels and so on, just in front of their names, would make it easier to analyze the kind of threat you're facing by a quick glance instead of having to scroll through them.

I also like the idea that has been mentioned, that you should be able to zoom in on other systems. I sometimes would like to be able to see what's in the different systems (as far as my nav-computer knows of course) when plotting a route, or deciding on what to do next in my grand adventure through Evochron.

The zoom-function could also be very handy when trying to use your saved waypoints. Like a small button that says: "Show on map" when selecting one of them. A little notepad to make more thorough notes regarding what they represent and what's there would also be nice. Like a: "Hidden asteroids here. Beware of hostiles from the second moon" -note to one self.

When clicking on planets in the map, I miss a short description. Like: " This world was once the thriving center of commerce throughout the system. But after a vast geological disaster, the majority of the population moved away to other places - leaving it a desolate globe ridden with ruins. Only a few sparsly populated cities remains on the northern hemisphere."

I think it would add a lot to the feeling of being there and give EM a little more atmosphere.

Well, realizing I just wrote a book, I'll stop taking up more of your time now. Thank you for making this really great game in the first place. I feel like I'm just started on this journey into the unknowns of Evechron, and I'm looking forward to the next 150+ hours.

Thx for listening Vice.

Post by **Vice** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:18 am

Thanks for the input and feedback. I'm formulating some plans for the nav map and wanted to post some details.

First, it does seem that for a significant number of players, being able to scroll the map around will help them manage map navigation easier. So I think it's important that the new nav map include -both- the ability to enlarge the map surface area to about half of the entire screen and also support optionally being able to scroll the map around by clicking on the map, holding the mouse button down, then dragging the pointer around to scroll the map in desired directions.

Snap-zooming in on other sectors via right clicking will probably still be the fastest method of plotting a jump point to another sector, but scrolling the map will likely help players more familiar with such a method of map management the option to use a system that works best for them. Here are some design goals I've set out for this option:

1 - The scrolling option will be enabled by a single click on a new button on the bottom right corner of the nav console (likely named 'Slide Mode'). The option will be available at the default sector zoom level of 1X.

2 - Once enabled, the player simply clicks-n-drags the map around to pan through all of the nearby sectors within navigation sensor range (about 8X8 sectors).

3 - The game will display icons in those sectors once at least around 50% of the sector comes into view (required design criteria to use such an option with the current map system).

4 - Once a desired sector is displayed in the panning mode, clicking on 'Select Mode' will restore the default point selection mode and will also automatically center the selected sector to keep central reference points aligned for the in-sector coordinate system. This way, the player won't have to try and figure out their relative perspective or try to manually calculate offset coordinates... everything will be aligned by the game automatically as they change map modes.

5 - The panning system must support clicking, releasing, then clicking again to pan the map in multiple stages. This includes selecting a new starting reference point after releasing the mouse button, then clicking again in a new location. This will provide the standard behavior many users are familiar with in other map tools.

6 - A new nav console background will likely be needed for the panning mode to allow for additional icon 'drift' as sectors are moved around and some icons become visible earlier or later depending on their proximity to the edges of sector borders.

7 - The panning option must support both the highlight and full text modes (icon specific text will also pan around on the map to match the movement of their respective icons).

8 - The panning option must support both in-sector zoom modes.

So if there's something you think would be helpful to add to this, just let me know.

Sometimes, a confirmation dialog would've been nice before jettisoning gargo - which I'm sorry to say has happened quite a few times by mistake. Well, perhaps it's just me..

It's not just you

The plan for the jettison option is for it to be moved away from the console options entirely and placed on the side of the cargo bay inventory list (where it probably should be anyway since it directly relates to that list). And if you still accidently jettison something, simply tractor it back aboard.

theonetruedark · Post by **theonetruedark** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:40 am

It all sounds great. I'm looking forward to see the changes in-game with the upcoming expansion.

I'm amazed at how much potential there is in this game of yours. I feel a bit like being a kid in a fast car, who keeps screaming: "Faster, faster" with light in his eyes and a big grin on his face.

I guess you can translate this with the feeling you had, the very first time you made planetfall.
You think: "Wow, that was a cool sensation. I want more." !! Or maybe I'm just plain weird.

But it gives me an urge to contribute somehow. But with what I have no idea. Well, at least I can keep playing the games, and try qualifying to answer your quests for ideas.

And on that note, I'm off to make Agate a safer place to be. For me at least.

[Edited on 28-2-2012 by theonetruedark]

god-demis · Post by **god-demis** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:00 am

One way to make the map 3D without making it complex, is to keep it 2D, but next to every object in the game(optional) put its Y coordinates in brackets. So you always have all coordinates available without clicking any buttons.. If brackets are not possible, maybe when you hover your mouse over it or something similar... Any thoughts on this?

TGS · Post by **TGS** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:10 pm

From post: 131748, Topic: tid=8992, author=Vice wrote: Part of the expansion includes several changes and improvements to the UI system, particularly the consoles. I am also working on the NAV console to make it more legible and user friendly. Currently, these changes have been made or are being worked on:

- The #1 request I've received is for the nav map to be optionally bigger. So there will be a new zoom option for the in-sector map. This will let you magnify the map to fill about half of the entire screen, allowing the icons to be much larger, text spaced out (in the 'Text On' mode), more precision in nav/jump point selection, and higher detail. Zooming in/out with the mouse wheel will still be supported in this mode and zooming works with both the overhead view and rear view.

- Icons are being redesigned for more details and clarity.

- Sector borders will be highlighted in white to make sector selection and zooming an easier process to manage visually.

- Menu borders are being redesigned for a cleaner look and less jagged/cluttered appearance.

- Highlight buttons added to destination fields.

So if there is something else you'd like to see added to the map or changed, I'd be interested in reading your comments. I've already collected a lot of feedback over the past few years, which is guiding the design process now and resulting in the planned changes/improvements. But just to verify it is on the right track and to consider other options that may have been overlooked, I'm posting this thread for additional feedback.

The idea of a 3D nav map has come up several times over the years, but as many of you know, attempts at a 3D nav map several years ago just resulted in more user confusion and difficulty plotting precise nav/jump points. The idea has always been enticing on paper, but in application it hasn't performed very well for the type of precision point navigation system used in this game. So if you are interested in a 3D nav map, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how such a system might be implemented in the game. For example:

- Should it be just a visual option only? That is, just for 'eye candy' and not really serve a functional purpose?

- How would you like to see Y coordinate plotting handled on such a map? That is, should nav point plotting require some kind of multi-step 'wizard' process that requires the player to set the X and Z, then select the Y? Since Evochron utilizes fully selectable environments at/to any location in open space (not just icon clicking), this is a critical functionality element for any nav map used in the game.

- The list of required steps, layers, modes, etc, to plot precision nav points has generally been a significant obstacle for ease of use in the past when trying to integrate a 3D system into the game. How would you like to see the translation from a 2D mouse pointer to a 3D nav point take place to simplify this process?

- What are your thoughts on the 3D nav map option in Arvoch Alliance and would you like to see that approach taken for Evochron (with or without nav point plotting)?

[Edited on 2-23-2012 by Vice]

Vice, I don't know if I have gotten in late or if this would even be feasible but one suggestion I would absolutely love to see and have in regards to the navmap is a "waypoint" mode similar to what Freelancer had. Then add further options to the autopilot so that the AP is intuitive in regards to this. For example a check "Use FD?" without that checked your ship will fly waypoint to waypoint on thrusters maintaining perhaps a limit of speed that you set. Another option "Use Gates/Wormholes?" which is exactly as it sounds. Now this wouldn't actually be just an extension of the Nav point so much as a separate system entirely. The waypoints would supercede the nav point when toggled. If not toggled it could just be a visual representation of a "course" you wish to lay out. Then obviously there would be a clear waypoints button that could clear them all. That is just one thing I think would be a really neat addition to the game's navigation functionality.

Obviously the big difference between FL and EM is that Freelancer was boxes and basically everything you could set a waypoint to was a static entity in the game... but in EM you could simply replace the static entity for Coordinates. Say you want to go from Sapphire to New Pearl you should be able to set a waypoint system there hit toggle waypoint's have use FD and use JG enabled and your ship will jump to the nearest proper gate. Enter said gate at the proper angle. Jump to the next gate and vice versa.

Now I know that some might say this trivializes travel a bit, but when you have a general idea of where things are and where you are headed travel is already rather trivial. Also another element I would love to see is the ability to send navlog entries directly to players to put into their navlogs. I never really liked the fact that if you want someone to find you... you have to broadcast your coordinates to EVERYONE who's actively logged in. That just never sat well with me.

theonetruedark · Post by **theonetruedark** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:12 am

I have a suggestion.

You can PM me if you want the bigger version with readable text.

[file]563[/file]

[Edited on 8-3-2012 by theonetruedark]

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:58 am

From post: 132514, Topic: tid=8992, author=TGS wrote:
Vice, I don't know if I have gotten in late or if this would even be feasible but one suggestion I would absolutely love to see and have in regards to the navmap is a "waypoint" mode similar to what Freelancer had. Then add further options to the autopilot so that the AP is intuitive in regards to this. For example a check "Use FD?" without that checked your ship will fly waypoint to waypoint on thrusters maintaining perhaps a limit of speed that you set. Another option "Use Gates/Wormholes?" which is exactly as it sounds. Now this wouldn't actually be just an extension of the Nav point so much as a separate system entirely. The waypoints would supercede the nav point when toggled. If not toggled it could just be a visual representation of a "course" you wish to lay out. Then obviously there would be a clear waypoints button that could clear them all. That is just one thing I think would be a really neat addition to the game's navigation functionality.

Obviously the big difference between FL and EM is that Freelancer was boxes and basically everything you could set a waypoint to was a static entity in the game... but in EM you could simply replace the static entity for Coordinates. Say you want to go from Sapphire to New Pearl you should be able to set a waypoint system there hit toggle waypoint's have use FD and use JG enabled and your ship will jump to the nearest proper gate. Enter said gate at the proper angle. Jump to the next gate and vice versa.

I thought the same originally when i first started playing the game but i soon noticed a problem with this idea. And that problem is...the fact that there are such a thing as "secret" jumpgates. So with a system like this, say you enter coordinates in a different system and then you're automatically directed to the relevant jumpgates to get there, well, then how does the computer know which jump gates you don't know about? I suppose a way around this would be for Vice to only allow the system to use gates you have been through before... But then that probably gets complicated...

[Edited on 3-7-2012 by Raynor]

TGS · Post by **TGS** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:31 pm

From post: 132624, Topic: tid=8992, author=Raynor wrote:
From post: 132514, Topic: tid=8992, author=TGS wrote:
Vice, I don't know if I have gotten in late or if this would even be feasible but one suggestion I would absolutely love to see and have in regards to the navmap is a "waypoint" mode similar to what Freelancer had. Then add further options to the autopilot so that the AP is intuitive in regards to this. For example a check "Use FD?" without that checked your ship will fly waypoint to waypoint on thrusters maintaining perhaps a limit of speed that you set. Another option "Use Gates/Wormholes?" which is exactly as it sounds. Now this wouldn't actually be just an extension of the Nav point so much as a separate system entirely. The waypoints would supercede the nav point when toggled. If not toggled it could just be a visual representation of a "course" you wish to lay out. Then obviously there would be a clear waypoints button that could clear them all. That is just one thing I think would be a really neat addition to the game's navigation functionality.

Obviously the big difference between FL and EM is that Freelancer was boxes and basically everything you could set a waypoint to was a static entity in the game... but in EM you could simply replace the static entity for Coordinates. Say you want to go from Sapphire to New Pearl you should be able to set a waypoint system there hit toggle waypoint's have use FD and use JG enabled and your ship will jump to the nearest proper gate. Enter said gate at the proper angle. Jump to the next gate and vice versa.
I thought the same originally when i first started playing the game but i soon noticed a problem with this idea. And that problem is...the fact that there are such a thing as "secret" jumpgates. So with a system like this, say you enter coordinates in a different system and then you're automatically directed to the relevant jumpgates to get there, well, then how does the computer know which jump gates you don't know about? I suppose a way around this would be for Vice to only allow the system to use gates you have been through before... But then that probably gets complicated...

[Edited on 3-7-2012 by Raynor]

Well if you utilized Freelancer's system it simply wouldn't use "hidden" things at all. Or you could do a hybrid system where if you found something like a jump gate or hole that it added it to your map for future use.

Alaric · Post by **Alaric** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Um I guess Im alone in liking it the way it is. It feels futuristic I guess lol. Id just like to be able to know where I built my Energy stations, ore processors and whatnot. I noticed the only way to find em after ya build em is visually.

As for the other suggestions I think they all make good sense. If you do implement the sliding map then just put a "reset view" button so a guy can start over if he gets disoriented.

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:43 pm

I'm definitely in favour of:

1. Scrolling function
2. Rotatable 3D view for orientation
3. 2D view for accurate plotting

No-one else appears to have mentioned it so maybe it's not so relevant but I would love to be able to minimise the open nav map to the dashboard of the cockpit. When I'm exploring on autopilot with continuous mulitple jumps I have to keep the nav map open in case I miss something between jumps. If it were on display on the dashboard I could sit back and enjoy the view of the stars and at the same time keep an eye on the navmap for unexpected anomalies. Not sure how complicated that would be to implement but perhaps it could be toggled with the target read-out for example, and maybe not have the full navmap functions when it is minimised but just a simple sector display so you could still see if you were passing by a planet or something.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:51 pm

From post: 132645, Topic: tid=8992, author=MCCON wrote:No-one else appears to have mentioned it so maybe it's not so relevant but I would love to be able to minimise the open nav map to the dashboard of the cockpit.

Not here ... but elsewhere in the forum. And for the very same reason.

Raynor · Post by **Raynor** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:04 am

From post: 132643, Topic: tid=8992, author=Alaric wrote:Um I guess Im alone in liking it the way it is. It feels futuristic I guess lol. Id just like to be able to know where I built my Energy stations, ore processors and whatnot. I noticed the only way to find em after ya build em is visually.

Well you can set a map log to them.