Newbie tries to win in combat

Malix · Post by **Malix** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:29 pm

Hi, guys, stream of endless newbie-ism ahead!

So, combat in EM, oh boy do I suck at it. I can handle most single ships just fine, groups of two are no real issue... but anything bigger than a group of 2 ships is completely out of my league.

My general tactics are to try to flank my enemies a bit, ie I steer my ship so I can pretty much hit their side with my guns.
The problem I have starts after my initial attack, I get roughly a bazillion missiles my way. Sure counter measures take out most of them, but the enemies seem to have near limitless supply of them. I get get murdered very dead quickly.

Currently my equipment consists of:
frame: Striker
shield: 5
engine: 3
cargo: 5
fuel: 1200
wings: 6

weaponwise I have:
Particle: Razor (class 10 [whatever that means]) y:140 c:90 r:450
Beam: Coil Laser, y:40

also, what do the Y and C mean? R I assume to be range. While writing this I realized my particle cannons range might be a tad short.

...So any combat tips greatly appreciated, no matter how bleeding obvious and "common knowledge" they should be, I need all the help I can get

Edit:
Ookay, bought a StarGuard (class 4) particle gun and I just wiped the floor with 3 enemies, apparently I needed the range _badly_. Also had a "DERP" -moment, realized that I actually can kind of rush head on with the enemies, maul them with my guns and then disable ids & quickly turn around and bash them a bit more with gunfire!

Still lot to learn though

[Edited on 5-31-2011 by Malix]

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:20 pm

"Hi Malix.....for combat/contract missions I would recommend having number 10 strength shields"..."Y= (yield) damage done and C= cycle rate of fire" there are a lot of strategies threads in the forum and with a little research you'll find quite a few combat tactics"

"Have Fun Fighting"

Jack Dandy · Post by **Jack Dandy** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:25 pm

1. You know you can shoot down missiles yourself, yeah? Just fire at them! Very viable technique if you want to save up on countermeasures.

2. SPAM COUNTERMEASURES. Just hold down the C button while moving and as long as you don't waste too much of it, missiles will hardly bother you. Use it wisely, though, so you won't run out too fast.

3. Do "strafing runs"- build up speed at a vector "outside" of the main group of enemies, switch to inertia, and fire away when in range. If needed, put some more power into the guns! But don't forget your shields, either.

Malix · Post by **Malix** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:33 pm

BraveHart: thank you for clearing up the Y and C! Will try to get a bigger shield fitted to my tiny ship.

Jack Dandy:
1. ... oh boy do I feel stupid now

thanks for the tip!

2. well.. this was my only defence from missiles this far

3. sounds good, will try!

Currently trying to destroy a command ship, but it doesn't look like I'm doing much... :/

Jack Dandy · Post by **Jack Dandy** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:42 pm

Now to wipe out a command ship you're gonna need some heavier firepower.
Or hire an NPC to fly with you.
Or a weapons specialist for your ship.

EDIT: Tip for capital ships that wasn't obvious, at least for me; the beam weapons don't hurt it or it's sihelds. Only the particle weapons do.

[Edited on 5-31-2011 by Jack Dandy]

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:45 pm

"Strafing runs on Capital ships work well...Laser's will weaken and collapse the cap ships shield then use cannon fire to break down the hauls and if you have missile's use them when the cap ship turns red for max damage...Also when you get the contract/mission set your ship to zero pitch and compass heading to 180degrees then Jump to the battle and you will find yourself directly behind the capital ship...use the "U" key to cycle and target the engines on capital ship...attacking the top or bottom of capital ship...Hope this helps you"...

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:21 pm

Target the capital ships engines (Cycle with U) and strafe back and forth behind it.
Fire away until the fireworks starts.

(Inertial mode makes you a harder target)
Also, using afterburner increases your heat signature.

Corrected Cycle Key!

[Edited on 2011-5-31 by SeeJay]

Malix · Post by **Malix** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:42 pm

thanks a bunch! so far key factors to my success so far have been 10 shields & strafing in general.

completely failed the earlier command ship attack.

but! I have more questions, of course.

Does targeting the big ship's engines help my weapons or is it just "FYI, the thingie in a circle is the engine"? I mean, I can see the engines as is, bright blue and in the backside of the hull...

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue May 31, 2011 10:09 pm

You can see on your Target display (Buttom right) what you have selected.
(ENG / WEA /NAV). (Cycle with U)
I just think it's easier strafing behind and close. Bring shields down with lasers and then
switch to guns.

It doesn't give your weapons any boost but it focus on the selected system.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Tue May 31, 2011 11:09 pm

Targetting a cap ships components will lock your missiles on that particular section of the ship. Makes taking out the engines faster. After that, it's easier ti kill a cap ship that;s dead ion the water.
Interesting enough, you can target subsystems on fighters as well.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue May 31, 2011 11:38 pm

When you are behind the Cap ship and firing at its Engine while matching its speed gives you the advantage of keeping your distance of firing range and of being able to shoot down any incoming missiles from its six. When you do this though make sure the Cap ship is the only enemy left or you might get incoming from your six.....

:P:P:P:P:P

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:54 am

You don't have to spam countermeasures though, if you time them right you only need 1 per missile, but shooting down most missiles is the best thing to do, and if one or two happen to get near you pop out a countermeasure at the right time to make it go away.
Best way to fight is in Inertial mode, that way the countermeasures work best since your engine heat signature is pretty much none existent.
That and the fact that the AI don't have MDTS auto aim so 99% of their cannon fire will miss you if you strafe in Inert mode.

So in a nutshell, fighting in Inertial mode incomming enemy fire and missiles have very little effect on you, once you got the Inert combat mastered you can win fights against 10+ enemies with ease by yourself.

Malix · Post by **Malix** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:30 am

Avenger: Aah! Thank you so much! Apparently I missed some crucial information of how mdts works. This will probably make my life so much easier!

On other news, did some mercenary grinding to study the matter: 40 red signals have diminished from the system

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:36 am

Every little bit helps.

Flash · Post by **Flash** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:34 am

If you haven't read this then I suggest you do. Good info

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegen ... de.htm#301

Flash · Post by **Flash** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:46 am

I've gotten pretty good with the AIs however person vs person is quite a different story. I really suck at that. A good pilot will blow the strafe technique out of the water. I suggest you log on to multiplayer and find a good tutor for that. Just ask and I am sure you'll get help. There are a ton of great pilots out there and most always seems very willing and eager to help.

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:05 pm

From post: 107975, Topic: tid=7622, author=Avenger wrote: once you got the Inert combat mastered you can win fights against 10+ enemies with ease by yourself.

All while chatting away in MP and keeping your pandora player on the right track.

Also, using long range cannons can be better than just getting the highest class guns you can find. Always think about what you are doing when you upgrade your boat. For example, an auto-cm launcher is great in a ship config that has a lot of CM's, but sort of awful if you only carry a few and need to use them wisely.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:52 am

Agreed, I use a IceSpear cannon myself, long range and high rate of fire, combined with a Cannon Relay System and a Cannon Heatsink this seemingly puny cannon is pretty powerful.

Not a big fan of the Auto CM Launcher however, it wastes way to many CM's for my taste, not to mention that I rarely use CM's to begin with since I shoot 99% of the incomming missiles.

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:11 pm

From post: 108001, Topic: tid=7622, author=Avenger wrote:Agreed, I use a IceSpear cannon myself, long range and high rate of fire, combined with a Cannon Relay System and a Cannon Heatsink this seemingly puny cannon is pretty powerful.

Interesting . . . multiply rate x yield and you get a damage/unit time (assuming that every shot hits

) - an "overall yield"

Go down the cannon class list and the "overall yield" (and to distance) of the FlareBeam is 1.2K @ 750; IceSpear is 3K @700; Maxim R is 12K @ 700 - a no brainer - or is it?.

You then have the opportunity to trade off range for overall yield . . . . FireFury 4.2K @ 600; StarGuard 5.4K @570 - but the Phantom is 19.8K at 570

Looking at the details there are a limited number of obvious choices (depending on whether you want range or damage): FlareBeam (max range - minimum damage) - Maxim-R (for the next highest range being 93% of the maximum possible range but 400% of the IceSpear damage) - Phantom (if you will accept a range of 570 (= 80% of the Maxim-R range but 165% of its damage).

I guess it's always going to be an issue for people who want lots and lots of weapons options - it's virually impossible to stop most being eliminated as second rate

Perhaps the weapons could have a "build" factor cost - the better weapons take more build points - perhaps they need extra cooling - bigger energy busses - heavier mounts??

edit: grammar!

[Edited on 2-6-2011 by DaveK]

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:18 pm

DaveK, you aren't taking into account the improved accuracy of faster cycle rates, or energy consumption. Those are two pretty big factors. Assuming every shot is going to hit is assuming quite a bit!

[Edited on 6-2-2011 by Dingo79]

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:44 pm

The reason I went with the IceSpear after being a Maxim-R fan for a long time was the energy consumption and the rate of fire.

Now I rarely run out of energy and even if I do the IceSpear is still firing at max rate if you pause shooting for 1 second, it looks like the energy recharge rate and the IceSpear energy drain are the same, so basicly without having any energy stored you can still fire the cannon if you just make sure that you have a minimum energy buffer.

So compared to the Maxim-R I can fight more effectivly because I can shoot my cannons forever, this was not the case with the Maxim-R, there I had to wait at times to regain enough energy for another kill.

Another thing is that now I can fire both the lasers and the cannons at the same time without massive energy draining, thus killing faster.

Post by **DaveK** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:24 pm

From post: 108031, Topic: tid=7622, author=Dingo79 wrote:DaveK, you aren't taking into account the improved accuracy of faster cycle rates, or energy consumption. Those are two pretty big factors. Assuming every shot is going to hit is assuming quite a bit!

[Edited on 6-2-2011 by Dingo79]

I agree - but the difference in firing rate varies from 90 - 120 and with MTDS once you lock on you don't miss many in a burst. Anyway the proportion of hits:misses should be the roughly the same and so all the numbers would be reduced by the same proportion

With Avenger's argument about about energy use - you don't run out of energy because you don't use it fast enough to do much damage. I could gently slap someone non stop for ages without tiring, but pummeling them into the ground takes it out of me! If they are trying to pummel me in return I would like as rapid a takedown as possible.

In terms of beam vs laser - I can fire my laser alone non-stop with negligible energy drain. Drain time for both together vs just particle beam is the same.

All part of the interesting decision making in the game!

However, I'm going to swap the Maxim for an IceSpear and for a FlareBeam and see what difference it makes in practice rather than in theory:D

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:56 pm

We will see after you tried the weapons yourself to see how "little" damage we do with them.

Foes I shoot pretty much blow up between 2-6 seconds of sustained fire, depending on the toughness of the target.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:59 pm

Altho the Banshee has proved to dominate the field against AI including the Vonari, I was distressed to learn it's not that potent in PvP. Call me hard-headed & stubborn, but I still feel the weapon is potent. I can only blame it either on tactics not learned or not developed to exploit the power of the Banshee. I have managed to solve the energy problem for the most part and can usually keep up a withering fire.
I know the weapon hits hard and does damage. It is either tactics, or the ship I use.
I am not yet ready to assign the Banshee to the limited use weapon pile.
As far as I can tell based on extensive PVP the Trebuchet, is the most over-rated and useless weapon is the inventory.
Sorry Vice, it's alleged shield penetration is highly overrated and it's hull damage is negligeable. You might want to take another look at the effectiveness of this weapon.
So, for the time being, I will continue to kep my Banshee as a weapon, and try to adjust tactics and perhaps different ships before I give up the weapon.
So be it !

Post by **DaveK** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:25 pm

From post: 108053, Topic: tid=7622, author=Avenger wrote:We will see after you tried the weapons yourself to see how "little" damage we do with them.

Foes I shoot pretty much blow up between 2-6 seconds of sustained fire, depending on the toughness of the target.

looking forward to it - having to pause to recharge, plus having to wait to jump out if necessary is a pain.

I was certainly surprised when I learned that engines only increase max speed not acceleration and it's helped in that I've downgraded my engines and upgraded other equipment - around 2000 max (x5 multiplier) is fine for me (and there is always afterburner for emergencies!) - to find out as well that I can use a higher rate of fire and a longer range and do more damage than a "bigger" gun will be "interesting" (though I can't really get my head round why either examples should be so!)