ships

GUNSLINGR · Post by **GUNSLINGR** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:56 am

I don't know if anyone uses the starmaster anymore, but now that the military ships were upgraded, this ship class (civilian) is useless. I was able to complete 9 ship contracts with this ship, now there is no way for a rookie to even attempt it.

Please upgrade these (civilian) ship to what they were so we have a chance. I dont want to fly a military ship.

Considering that nothing has changed on my ship, just the game, I don't feel that this is my inexperience showing. I could do it before.

Has anyone else tried doing challenging contracts with the starmaster lately?

I understand that some contracts weren't made to solo, but on the 9 ship contracts, I should be able to complete.

just my usual bitchy self,
-Gun

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:00 am

I still fly the Starmaster and haven't noticed any new difficulties even in the SZ.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:15 am

Same here. My StarMaster is just fine. I admit it is slower than a lot of others but it holds all my toys.

GUNSLINGR · Post by **GUNSLINGR** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:48 am

i dont know then, i been trying to run contracts in PH and get my butt creamed with a frothy top.

hanging hed n dragin tail,
-gun

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:35 am

I flew my old Mammoth today and had similar problems. I don't think the specs have changed for the civilian ships ... we've just gotten too spoiled with the new upgrades to military ships.

Civilian ships still do what they're supposed to do ... haul cargo so pilots can make loads of credits and get rich.

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:38 am

I've switched back to the Starmaster, from an Evoc E. Simple reason; doing missions in the Cer WZ, after blowing up the cap ship I can pick up 6m in cargo.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:24 pm

I can beat 12+ mobs in pretty much any type of high class ship, Starmaster, Mammoth and Legacy come to mind of the civilian classes.

What was a bit odd that before the update on the military ships was that the civilian cargo ships where better in combat then the military ones.

So now a ship build for combat is better in combat then a ship build for cargo hauling and general purpose and you want it to be the way it was before, where the civilian ships outclassed the military ones in a pure combat role?

I fail to see the logic in that.

Post by **DaveK** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:27 pm

Hee hee hee -:D

I did mention in the original discussion thread about mil ship specs that if they were upgraded then the civilian mob would complain that their ships aren't as good any more! - It's taken a week or so to happen!

If Vice listens to the CEM (Civ Equality Movement) then a week or two after civ ships are upgraded the mil mob will be howling again. In economics its called wage-price inflation!

For what it's worth, I'm with Avenger: Just because the mil ships have been vamped up it doesn't make my StarMaster any slower, softer or less useful to me than it was a week or two ago before mil ships got harder and meaner; If I want to play combat man I'll move to a mil ship. However, no mil ship is as good for trading or (IMHO) exploring which is what I enjoy more - so I'll stick with my StarMaster. Horses for courses

GUNSLINGR · Post by **GUNSLINGR** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:13 pm

From post: 104327, Topic: tid=7414, author=Marvin wrote: I flew my old Mammoth today and had similar problems. I don't think the specs have changed for the civilian ships ... we've just gotten too spoiled with the new upgrades to military ships.

Civilian ships still do what they're supposed to do ... haul cargo so pilots can make loads of credits and get rich.

I havn't flown a military ship, have stayed civi. something has changed,, the AI ship r using me for a mop now.

-Gun

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:13 pm

LOL...DaveK, nicely put.....

:P

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:24 pm

From post: 104405, Topic: tid=7414, author=GUNSLINGR wrote:
From post: 104327, Topic: tid=7414, author=Marvin wrote: I flew my old Mammoth today and had similar problems. I don't think the specs have changed for the civilian ships ... we've just gotten too spoiled with the new upgrades to military ships.

Civilian ships still do what they're supposed to do ... haul cargo so pilots can make loads of credits and get rich.
I havn't flown a military ship, have stayed civi. something has changed,, the AI ship r using me for a mop now.

-Gun

Aren't the AI flying civilian ships as well? Or are you fighting hostile Navy combat ships?

EDIT: On a side note, I have seen several players combat mobs succesfully in civil ships last week like that Vonari guy and Miaz just to name 2 from the top of my head.
They both fly a Starmaster.

[Edited on 3-23-2011 by Avenger]

GUNSLINGR · Post by **GUNSLINGR** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:15 am

Since the test build with the upgrade to the military, something was changed.

Had hoped to get some insite, but should have known that was a waste.

Thanks, to the couple players that actually answered.

good luck

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:24 am

Gunslinger, the only change is that the mil ships now have greater armour, and, their guns fire a lot longer, and recover energy to fire a lot sooner. A must for PvP.

Civ ships, seem to me, to be just the same - the Von, and the rebels, die just as quickly as they did before.

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:42 am

"Hi Gunslinger"....Remember the old saying:"Beware the man that owns only one Gun...he more then likely knows how to use it!".... Just replace the Gun with the ship of your choice and enjoy

Ophiuchus · Post by **Ophiuchus** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:06 am

I fly a Starmaster as well. I use it regularly in the trade runs and contracts I work. Guild, Rebs, and Vonari all die as well with this platform as they do under the Chimera I also fly in combat zones. BraveHart and Ravenfeeder have the right of it.

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:55 am

Hi Gunslinger,

Sorry you don't think the replies here are helpful

I read them as;

civilian ships haven't changed
several people still fly civilian and don't have problems
civilian ships have a different role now (which is as it should be or else military ships are just a crippled version) - civilian for trade and exploration - military for pure combat
a reminder that AI (who you feel can now kick your ass) still fly civilian frames as well - a pointer that you might now be fighting in a military rich area and hence the better military ships will be a harder problem
one reply that agreed that it is harder to take on the military
[/list=1]
I'm not sure what answers you wanted/expected

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:56 am

I will load my 2nd profile in a bit and fly my Mammoth vs 10 civil rebels in Onyx to see if things have changed.

Mind you, my crew is only at 50% skill level.

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Avenger]

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:53 am

I have to report no unusual findings regarding civilian ships. (A Mammoth in this case)

I just ran a series of contracts including 1 4 wp contract with 40 foes and I whiped the floor with them.
Even though I have "only" 75 CM's I needed only between 7-12 per waypoint.
It takes a little longer then when flying my Avenger or Firestar but that is to expected with less energy distribution, agility, speed and acceleration.

So I don't know how it can be that you get creamed now all of a sudden Gunslinger.

EDIT: Ran some more contracts and after getting used to the way my Mammoth handles I cleared groups of 10 foes in less then 2 minutes.
I fired my Excals at the first pass taking out 1 of em, gunned down 3 more with cannons, gunned down 2 more on the second pass, then picked off the remaining 4 one by one.
when the last one blew up I still had 81 seconds remaining for my Excals to reload.

I did get a few missile hits here and there during the various contract runs, I have to say that here is where the civil ships still outclass the military ones, self repair speed.
And my Engineer is not even 100% on skill yet.

I find that a good trade off though, they are a little less good in combat but when they get spanked they repair a lot faster.

MORE EDIT: After more contracts and having now matured my crew with 100% skill I must say that the civilian ships are far from useless.
I am also 100% sure that they deal more damage with the same cannon type on a military frame due to the Weapon Ops, most likely a combination of added damage and higher rate of fire.

So this shifts the delicate ballance even more between the 2 classes.

Military ships:

Overal more armor
More energy
Better acceleration
Overal higher speed
Overal better agility

Civil ships:

More cargo space
Faster repair if you have a self repair unit and an engineer on board
More damage with cannon fire if having a Weapon Ops on board
Abillity to spot planets and other things of interest with a Science Ops on board
Preventing planet / asteroid kissing by having a Navigator on board

From my point of view this is a pretty healthy ballance between the 2 classes.

[Edited on 3-24-2011 by Avenger]

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 pm

I agree. But I still suspect we are playing different games, Ave.

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:51 pm

Hi Marvin

In what way? different versions? It is different from before because the military ships have changed!

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Not really, we use the same version.

He flew as my gunner a few times to see how I spank big fighter mobs.
Where no missiles where hitting me he did register 19 missile hits. (the banging sound and shacking when a missile strikes your hull)
However I did not receive any hull damage.

I let the missiles get pretty close so I only need 1 CM to evade them and maybe that is why Marv in his giant cannon turret ringsystem register them as hull strikes.

Not sure how that is modelled, only Vice can really answer that one.

To Marv it looked like I had some super titanium reactive armor so he said that he wanted the same ship I fly, one that can take a missile and only need a paintjob afterwards.

;)

Post by **DaveK** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:12 pm

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:42 pm

Yeah, I told Ave I was just going to observe. I didn't even warm up my cannon until the very end. It was impressive.

Avenger · Post by **Avenger** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:59 am

I will miss inert flight mode when I install IL2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover, thanks for spoiling me Vice!!!!!

:P

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:07 am

LOL, I'm going there as well mate. Will probably crash tail first when I try to turn around
and fire on my six, LOL!:D