Feature Requests: Target Lock+Fat Fingers=Oops.

Aesir Rising · Post by **Aesir Rising** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:40 pm

Centuries earlier, in the 1960s, there existed IFF and transponder technology used in air-to-air engagements.

Thousands of years prior to that, there existed the concept of target identification.

For example, the ancient Athenians might have said something akin to the following before firing their Starfire missles at enemy spaceships at the battle of Thermopylae:
Αλτ! Ποιος θα πάει εκεί!
[Halt! Who goes there?]

I'd like to see such concepts and technology re-appear in Evochron. Maybe they got dug up by a mercenary archeologist in the Sol system.

Implementation details:

Provide a target clear/unlock binding. I don't always want a target lock on anything. I rarely want a target lock on what the game auto-targets for me.
Cage/Uncage toggle for missle seeker heads.
Require a positive input action to have target lock on a Friendly (green) or Neutral (yellow) target.

As a dedicated trader, most of my in-game kills come from fat fingers and the game's current requirement to always have a lock on something. Help.

[Edited on 10-23-2010 by Aesir Rising]

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:03 pm

IFF in the olden days usually consisted of a standard bearer (the guy carrying the flag). But I'm not sure what you mean by "Provide a target clear/unlock binding" ... since you can already manually target anyone within radar range by using either the keyboard/key-binding or the mouse. And the only reason to cage/unlock a missile's seeker head is when the method of acquiring a lock is via boresight, where the seeker head is caged ... the pilot then (after locking on) uncages the head so he can maneuver within seeker-head gymbal limits.

Aesir Rising · Post by **Aesir Rising** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:11 pm

"Provide a target clear/unlock binding" means "Please give me a key that I can press to clear the target lock." I want to press something to lock a target. This game automatically locks a target, which I can change, but I don't always want to trade one green target for another one. Sometimes I don't want a target locked at all. So... give me a way to clear the lock.

That goes along with providing me a way to initiate a lock in the first place. atm, the game locks on something. Always. I don't always want a target locked.

Cage/uncage: The missles in this game automatically lock when a ship appears within the HUD circle for x amount of time. Maybe there are exceptions someplace, but I'm going by what the documentation says and what I see. So when I wrote:
"Cage", I mean give me a way to make the missle not look for and lock a target.
"Uncage", I mean give me a way to have the missle look for and lock a target.

[Edited on 10-23-2010 by Aesir Rising]

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:16 pm

Ah, so basically you want the ability to disable the missile targeting system when there are no hostile (red) targets ('cause the targeting system will always target Reds ... and you can even cycle between Reds) ... right?

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:24 pm

I agree. The game automatically targets the closest most hostile ship. Could make the Alt-R be a toggle for target nearest on and lock, and off unlock no target selected..suggestion to Vice....Good Point Aesir!

[Edited on 10-23-2010 by Maarschalk]

Aesir Rising · Post by **Aesir Rising** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:28 pm

Maybe I should replace "target lock" with "target selection" when referring to beam/particle weapons, and leave the term "target lock" for the part of the discussion relating to missles.

I want to be able to toggle off the automatic target lock (missles) and target selection (non-missle weapons).

I am not entirely clear how, or if, the missle targeting differs from particle and beam targeting, so I can't answer your (Marvin) last question "Yes" or "No".

I can only say that I want to require a positive input action (click/press) to initiate a target lock or selection. I want to prevent the not-so-friendly fire incidents that account for the majority of my in-game kills so far.

I'm aware others may not want this behavior, or otherwise wish to leave the existing behavior in-place. Therefore, I need this automatic targeting to be an optional binding option.

I'm less concerned about the red hostile target selection and locking behavior. If for some reason that must be excluded or otherwise handled separately, then ok. The focus of my request has to do with green/yellow target selection and locking.

Oh, and I'll add this to help clarify:
If I have no target selected, a missle shouldn't fire if I hit the launch key/button. This allows me the fat finger safety I so richly deserve.

[Edited on 10-23-2010 by Aesir Rising]

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:31 pm

If I was going to make the change, I'd just add a "null" to the cycle subroutine. But ... that's me.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:52 pm

The automatic target locking always locks on the closest most hostile treath. Regardless red, yellow or green. There is always a lock on the closest ship that is the most treath to you. If there are only yellows around, it will lock on to the closest yellow. Same for if there are only greens around, it will automattically target the nearest green. So there is always a Target lock on another ship.
And the point is to be able to make it so that you have the choice to turn Target locking on and off.
The Target locking is also not independent from Weapons lock. Once you are locked on a target all weapons will Target that ship. Would be nice also if you could lock missiles on a different Target while having guns and Cannon lock on another. Meaning that once a Target is locked in to the missiles tracking and launched you can target another ship with your cannons or a different missile so that the missile you just launched will not go to the next target you select unless the first targeted ship is destroyed before missile impact....

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:57 pm

Complicated. That would surely increase the number of my Yoda moments, Maars.

Rush · Post by **Rush** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:59 pm

I would like to see fire-and-forget missiles. I mean: if you fire a missile and then change target, the missile will change course to intercept the new target (Tbird knows something about this

). If instead the missile remained on its original target, I could be able to fire many missiles at different targets in a short time without having to wait for the missile to end its life (very helpful in "1 vs Rest of Universe" contracts)...

By the way...pointing guns here and missiles there would only "multiply Yoda moments" as Marvin says

Changing missiles alone and not the entire targeting system should be simpler for the player.

[Edited on 23-10-2010 by Rush]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:03 pm

So what, we all love Yoda Moments anyway except for our Wifes....LOL....

:P:P:P:P

[Edited on 10-25-2010 by Maarschalk]

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:03 pm

Slightly on the same subject, I would like to see a "power drain" indicator to show how much energy is left to weapons and the recovery time. This could be placed where the vertical green banks are on either side of the radar display. Left for guns, right for Lasers.

Aesir Rising · Post by **Aesir Rising** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:40 pm

Adding a Null to the target selection list doesn't fix the issue illustrated. For example, Null won't change a now-hostile ship I accidentally shot at back to Green. At the same time, it adds an additional selection cycle for everyone - whether they like this idea or not. The big advantage of the Null selection proposal is ease of implementation. But since it doesn't seem to correctly address the issues presented, it isn't much of a time-saver for anyone, not even for Vice.

Generally speaking, my primary objective isn't to reduce Vice's work load. He can sort/group/filter change requests and assign both the resources and the priorities to them as he sees fit, because that is his job. My job as a player is to provide info on what I like or don't like about the game, and to try to do it as clearly as possible so that Vice doesn't spin his wheels and come up with something that doesn't fix the issue or add any value.

With that out of the way, how does this sound?

Bind slot for "Automatic Target Selection" (enable/disable toggle).

Press once to enable, and again to disable.
Need a HUD or in-game panel state indicator. I would prefer a panel light indicator labeled "ATS".

Bind slot for "Clear Target" (activation):

Press to deselect the current target selection.
Particle and Beam will fire bore-sight, but will not track with MDTS. Missiles will not launch without a target selected and missile lock acquired.

Want the game to function as it does now? Then leave ATS enabled and don't map an input to Clear Target.

In all cases, existing input mappings and features remain unchanged. That is, whether you have enabled ATS or not, pressing your button for Next Target or Nearest Enemy will do exactly that: Target the next target in the ship list, or target the nearest hostile.

[Edited on 10-23-2010 by Aesir Rising]

Aesir Rising · Post by **Aesir Rising** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:10 pm

Does disabling the HUD have any disadvantages?

Galaxian · Post by **Galaxian** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:01 pm

A toggle for target auto-acquire to permit switching from the current auto mode to a manual targeting mode would be nifty and useful IMHO.

Not to hijack, but I'd also to add to my wish list an analog control option for primary thrusters (fwd/rev) in inertial. Something like keeping the IDS throttle controls and reverse thrust toggle active in inertial would be sweet.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:55 pm

A toggle for target auto-acquire to permit switching from the current auto mode to a manual targeting mode would be nifty and useful IMHO.

Both modes work simultaneously. You can use the keyboard or mouse to manually target a ship.

Does disabling the HUD have any disadvantages?

About the HUD, the only disadvantage to turning it off is that it also turns off your three main displays. I could never figure the reason for that one but ... that's the way it works.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:09 pm

You can disable the "3D cockpit" in optionsand still have your main info showing. But never mind that is not what you are looking for.

[Edited on 10-24-2010 by thetiebers]