Compared to X3:TC?

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:50 am

Hey all.

I'm fairly new to the space-sim genre. I discovered X3: Terran Conflict a few months ago and have been having a great time with it, but I'm looking to expand my horizons, see what else is out there.

There was an article about this on Rock, Paper, Shotgun which piqued my interest. I've watched some of the videos, and am planning on DLing the demo when I have some free time, but I wondered if I could get some insight from you guys. I generally find I enjoy a game more when I like the forum community.

So. How does this game compare to X3:TC? Is it the same sort of thing, or does it lean in a different direction? (Not necessarily a bad thing in my book.)

What kind of interaction is there with the different factions? Can you have an impact on the universe? What about pilotable ships? All the videos have shown what look like fighters. Can you fly larger ships/trade ships, etc.?

What distinguishes this game from others in the genre? (Granted, my only touchstone of comparison is X3.)

Thanks in advance!

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:02 am

Hey!

Never played X3 myself.

The community here is great. Always people to help you when you need it and when you're online there will always be someone to show you the ropes. There is a great server and host and a good community of players. The guy who created the game also posts regularily on the forum and is always quick to provide support and updates his games regularily as well. Overall flying here is a lot of fun.

The Evochron series is the best game of this genre I have ever played.

You can select to do missions throughout the Universe with many different factions. You have a global reputation and local reputations which determine whether factions are hostile or friendly. Helping will make you loved by the factions, killing them will result in many hostile ships.

You can customise your ship in a variety of ways. You can select how many missiles you can carry/no. of crew/equipment hardpoints etc.

You can also customise how it looks withing the shipyard. You can make a ship look quite big and bulky or quite small and nimble looking. The components you choose affect how it performs and what defences it has. The ships don't get really big but you can link with other players in mp to become a turret on their ship.

The thing I think that distinguishes this game from others is that you can go anwhere in the Universe without loading screens. The Universe is massive and the multiplayer is really good fun. The flight system is really good and quite realistic, you can fly directly from space to planets - the new game looks really stunning, especially the planets.

All, i'll say is try the demo. If you're into this genre, you can't not enjoy it.

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by soulsacrifice]

Blackthorne · Post by **Blackthorne** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:05 am

I did wax poetic about the two games in another thread. I'll just quote myself here, for reasons of simplicity.

All of the "background" in Evochron...isn't.

If you can see it, you can go there, be it a planet, star, black hole or nebula. There is no "skybox" beyond some starry background, everything else is is a game object and can be interacted with. Even the rings around some of the planets.

As for the X3 comparison...they're pretty different. The X-Series went from what was a fun space sim/shooter with trading elements to a intergalactic business simulator.
X3, in my humble opinion, has a learning curve much akin to running full tilt into a brick wall (mostly due to the rather atrocious user interface) and gets gummed up with micromanagement halfway through the game. The actual "flying and shooting" part always felt a bit underdeveloped. There was a clear lack of "acceptable targets" besides the Xenon, who generally stayed within their designated sectors, and dogpiled on anyone who entered them, and the Khaak, which were rare and merely annoying most of the time.

Evochron focuses on one ship, a smallish fightercraft. Frames like the Leviathan stretch that definition a bit, but even the most sluggish of frames isn't a capital ship in the way a M6 or M7-class craft in X is.

The learning curve for Evochron is rather steep, too, but the basic flight training helps a lot, and the game is much simpler to grasp, at least as far as the math involved is concerned.

Evochron's flight model is newtonian; while there is an arcade-type flight model available (you can switch between them with the space bar), it's only useful for precision maneuvering. Using it in combat means you'll be dead soonish, so learning the other one is essential.
Dogfights therefore look a lot different in Evochron than in X. The ability to change the ship's orientation independent of the flight vector makes turrets much less useful than they are in X.

There also used to be only two basic types of guns in Evochron (as opposed to the numerous types of energy weapons available in terran conflict), a hitscan beam that drains shields and a particle gun that works pretty much like a machine gun.

Mercenary adds a few side effects (like shield drain or knockback) to certain particle guns, but the visuals are still rather plain.

Missiles are a lot more useful than in the early X games, but also much more limited in quantity. There's also countermeasures available, and you can gun down incoming missiles manually rather easily. Unfortunately, you will have to do so in order to survive.

There is a lot of randomization involved in Evochron, from available equipment to NPC reactions, opposed to the thoroughly calculated market and NPC standings in the X-series. Trade is more akin to Elite, with prices based on economy type and location, modified by random price fluctuations inside a certain range.

The X universe is pretty static; there are few surprises besides the occasional hidden ship or a station that's a few klicks off the ecliptic. Evochron, on the other hand, managed to hide entire star systems in the void between the handful of mapped systems. A few of those "secret locations" are next to impossible to find, though.
I hear that Mercenary allows you to see stellar objects from a far greater distance than Legends, so an aspiring explorer might be able to find a lot of interesting things just by keeping his eyes open (as opposed to going sourcediving, which is no longer possible in Mercenary).

From the number of systems, Evochron seems smaller at first than the X-Universe with it's countless sectors. Once you dig a little deeper, however, you'll realize that a vast amount of the content is hidden out there somewhere. A bit like an iceberg, really.

Is it a better game? Hard to tell. It's different. If you want to build an empire and command a capital ship, you'll obviously enjoy X3 more, since the first feature is implemented rudimentarily at best and the second is non-existant.
But if you want to explore the great unknown in a unique ship of your own, accepting missions to pay for the necessities to do so and maybe found your own "safe haven" somewhere out there, you'll probably enjoy Evochron more.

There's also multiplayer, something which the X-series utterly lacks, that adds to the enjoyability of the game. Since singleplayer profiles also double as multiplayer ones, it's rather easy to get in and out of.

-Blackthorne, hits you with an recycled wall of text for 3d10 damage.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:20 am

Yeah, this X-3 comparison is quickly becoming the most commonly asked question. I'm glad some of you guys keep track of your answers.

Btw, welcome to the game, _A. It has many advantages (as I'm sure you've already surmised from reading the above posts).

dogeddie · Post by **dogeddie** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:28 am

Originally posted by soulsacrifice
Hey!

Never played X3 myself.

The community here is great. Always people to help you when you need it and when you're online there will always be someone to show you the ropes. There is a great server and host and a good community of players. The guy who created the game also posts regularily on the forum and is always quick to provide support and updates his games regularily as well. Overall flying here is a lot of fun.

The Evochron series is the best game of this genre I have ever played.

You can select to do missions throughout the Universe with many different factions. You have a global reputation and local reputations which determine whether factions are hostile or friendly. Helping will make you loved by the factions, killing them will result in many hostile ships.

You can customise your ship in a variety of ways. You can select how many missiles you can carry/no. of crew/equipment hardpoints etc.

You can also customise how it looks withing the shipyard. You can make a ship look quite big and bulky or quite small and nimble looking. The components you choose affect how it performs and what defences it has. The ships don't get really big but you can link with other players in mp to become a turret on their ship.

The thing I think that distinguishes this game from others is that you can go anwhere in the Universe without loading screens. The Universe is massive and the multiplayer is really good fun. The flight system is really good and quite realistic, you can fly directly from space to planets - the new game looks really stunning, especially the planets.

All, i'll say is try the demo. If you're into this genre, you can't not enjoy it.

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by soulsacrifice]

How can you give advice to someone wanting to compare the two games when you haven't even played one of them?

They are both good space sims. Both sand box games. You can't go wrong with either. I hardly think X3 could be called a business simulator, though. No one who spent alot of time with the game could call it that. Especially Terran Conflict.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:34 am

Blackthorne, on the other hand, seems to know both pretty well. And, having played both myself, I can tell you I always had the feeling of flying from box to box in X-3. Mercenary, on the other hand (I have five robotic fingers), is one great big galaxy where you can fly from one end to the other ... if you have the time and gas to do it. And X-3 can't even come close to Mercenary's multiplayer option.

dogeddie · Post by **dogeddie** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:44 am

You can't beat saving up for a big carrier ship and loading it with fighters to crush your opponents. Or training a group of Marines to fight, then dumping them next to a ship you want to take over and letting them infiltrate it, deck by deck. Or going space fly hunting. Forcing alien enemies to bail from their ships so you can take them for your own, then picking up the stranded astronaut enemies and selling them as slaves. Or getting out of your ship and tooling around in a spacesuit to repair your ship's hull. I don't want to argue, but any space gamer fan should be open minded enough to see that they are both good games, and X3 has some really great activities. Its complexity is due to the sheer number of things you can do.

Vice has got the multiplayer and planetary landing thing going, which is excellent. And I love the gravity pull from stars. And the way I can travel forever if I choose. These are good times we live in for space sim gaming!

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by dogeddie]

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:49 am

And most guys here play more than one space game. Including X-3. It's just different. And, to get your MP fix, this is the place to come.

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:10 am

"Buy it.....You'll like it" nuff said

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:14 am

Wow, alot of quick responses. Hi guys!

The multiplayer seems interesting, as that is something X3 definitely does not have.

How does it work? Do you spawn a universe specifically for it, or is it more of a jump-in, jump-out sort of thing?

Another thing, with the universe being so big, is it procedurally generated, or the same every time you play? (Both would have their pluses/minuses.)

I'm DLing the demo now.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:24 am

Hello thebigJ_A, Welcome to the forum and hopefully the Sim. Have fun and hope to see you out there sometime.

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 am

Originally posted by dogeddieHow can you give advice to someone wanting to compare the two games when you haven't even played one of them.

Where exactly did I say I was comparing the two game? I was giving him some information on Mercenarys to help him and answer questions where I could. If you didn't find the information useful that's fine, I wasn't replying to you.

SuperDave · Post by **SuperDave** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:28 am

ive played the X series,, while the current one is ...um...well very much more for the eye candy, and the ships you can pilot (capitol ships in the X series..but man those took forever to earn..i mean FOREVER!) Evo Merch, is good on the eye candy, and has a decent amount of ships avail however i have yet to find a capitol ship..but i really dont think we NEED em in this sim.

not sure about the stations and such, the X series felt like, after a while , it was a training model for some sort of business exec rather than a cool space sim. I have yet to dive into that part of EM..but it actually sounds more fun in this one

One thing the X series didnt have is the planetary transitions. Planets looked so cool in the background Of X2 and 3...but you never could interact with them...at all.

gfx wise..the x series is better (but its 7+ gigs, this game is at the 350mb mark...huge difference). The x series requires a god like computer with liquid cooling and a cray mainframe backup. (ok ok just kidding there but its got some very serious hardware requirements.) Em...is quite nice on the requirements and still looks good.

overall id say Evo Merc wins overall, unless you just HAVE to have all that eye candy. Theres prob a lot more i should say here...but im exhausted after a long day of work. hopefully ill get some good game time in sunday

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:08 am

I just did the training. I'll hit launch later when I have an hour and a half to dedicate to it.

The controls take some getting used to! Especially the realistic inertia. (I switched w and s to thrusters up/down, whoever decided on them being z/x is just silly!

)

I like it so far. Is there any way to get info on the items in stations? Clicking just buys them.

I actually like the station building in X3. If I have a fleet of ships, I can build my own complexes to keep them supplied, and sell the excess. I can see how some would call it a business sim, but it's the business of war, so I enjoy it.

I can tell this is a bit different, but I think I might just like it.

In the training it mentioned you could have AI ships under your command. How much control do you have? Can you send them on trading runs and patrols on their own, or are they like wingmen who follow you around?

The_Visitation · Post by **The_Visitation** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:25 am

Evochron (Legends and now Mercenary) scores over X3 in two essential ways. Firstly the combat, which is at the heart of all such games, is vastly superior; that in X3 just sucks IMHO. Secondly, Evochron doesn't have X3's biggest problem, being stuck with the individual areas joined up by jumpgates. In Evochron it actually feels like space , you can go anywhere which makes it much more immersive and 'realistic'.

X3, on the other hand has better production values (inevitable as dev team and budget were so much bigger!) and an awful lot of stuff you can do that can't do in Evochron, particularly if you enjoy 'empire' building.

As has already been said, overall both are great games and any self-respecting space-sim fan should own both.

[Edited on 18-9-2010 by The_Visitation]

Blackthorne · Post by **Blackthorne** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:30 am

Originally posted by thebigJ_A
I like it so far. Is there any way to get info on the items in stations? Clicking just buys them.

In the training it mentioned you could have AI ships under your command. How much control do you have? Can you send them on trading runs and patrols on their own, or are they like wingmen who follow you around?

Well, the items...the closest thing to a manual right now is this here:
http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... iverse.htm

As evident with my station troubles, the documentation on some of the features leaves a bit to be desired, but if you ask around, you're bound to get some answers.

The wingmen are pretty much that: Wingmen. They provide valuable services during combat (i.E., they give the enemy someone else to shoot their missiles at), but they stay with you - no universe traders here, sorry. There is a mining command available for them, though, but I'm a bit unsure on what that one actually does.

Keep in mind that wingmen demand regular upkeep, and also that they won't follow you into warzones.

-Blackthorne

[Edited on 18-9-2010 by Blackthorne]

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:04 am

Originally posted by Blackthorne
Keep in mind that wingmen demand regular upkeep, and also that they won't follow you into warzones.

-Blackthorne

Wait... isn't that when you'd need them most??

So you can't tell what you are buying in game. Seems like something that should be put in. Not too big a deal, though. I'll play tomorrow and find out if it's for me.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:17 am

I was fan of "X Beyond the Frontiers" and X Tension. Suddenly all things changed! I am not against X series and TC, I always respect simulation makers. But:

X3:TC's planets are just a "planet" you know. No MP, and no real dogfight!!!! What left behind?

Decision is yours. But Evochron series are simulation, not game!

Good flying...

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by warsign]

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:28 am

I'm curious about what you mean when you say, "no real dogfight". Just yesterday i was in a real furball when Xenon attacked one of my sectors. My cruisers and fighters against a big 'ol Xenon Q and a dozen Xenon fighters of various stripes. Ships all over, me turning and weaving to avoid incoming fire and missiles, etc.

I don't think it's an either/or situation. If this game is fun, I'll play it, too. I can't wait to give it a spin tomorrow!

I'm still wondering about the mp, though. (I'll need to buy a headset, methinks.)

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by thebigJ_A]

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:17 am

Originally posted by thebigJ_A
I'm curious about what you mean when you say, "no real dogfight".

I don't think it's an either/or situation. If this game is fun, I'll play it, too..

Those are only my thoughts of course...But:

Newtonian space flight model brings freedom and enjoyment a alot. And full 6 dof trackir support with voice chat support. And the feeling of fights, ship's mass, feeling of flying in vast space and fighting with your mates against alien teams etc etc... I am talking about to play against real player(s) in MP!!!

I suggest you to play demo to decide. I hope to see you out there in MP...

Good flying...

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by warsign]

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:26 am

I'm not going to get the feel for mp from the demo. What's it like?

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:49 am

Taken from Mercenary main official site, futures section...

1. Cooperative multiplayer objectives that pay all linked players. Join forces with other players to complete more challenging activities that can offer much better pay. More advanced players can link with new players to give them access to higher paying contracts that they would not otherwise have access to early in the game. Being part of the same team lets you combine reputations and contract pay for improved results.

2. New gun turret binding mode in multiplayer allows players to link their ships together. One player controls a 360-degree gun turret attached to the player's ship they've linked to.

3. New fleet command system. Send single player commands to AI ships and multiplayer commands to other players. You can order your fleet ships to form up, attack hostiles, defend you specifically, mine asteroids, or order them to reload and refuel which parks them in a local station until ordered to do something else. In multiplayer, the new command system broadcasts the order in a message, so clans can use the same command system to issue orders to their human wingmen.

4. Ship-to-ship trading and cargo system. Ship and trade weapons, upgrades, fuel, credits, and equipment in addition to commodities. You can even load items from your cargo bay onto your ship, letting you carry more weapons, upgrades, and equipment beyond what you can install on your ship. Challenge other players to multiplayer ship-vs-ship races with the trade console and place the race course where you want in space.

5. The new build system lets you construct space stations, dynamically expanding the game's universe with new trade routes, docking points, and economies. The online multiplayer universe system supports this station placement, letting you or any other player construct stations at new locations in the game's universe while you are playing online. Player built stations are stored with the server so other players can have access to the new stations and trade routes you create.

6. New clan territory control system. Clans can take partial control of solar systems through cooperative contracts and clan-vs-clan battles in multiplayer. The server tracks events involving completed contracts and clan wars, then awards percentage points to victorious groups, giving them a partial ownership interest in the system. When clan control is above 80% in a system, they are paid a percentage of earnings from that system.

7. Unified gameplay architecture and profiles let you keep the ship, upgrades, equipment, money, weapons, crew, and commodities you acquire in the game for use in both single player and multiplayer.

8. New Multiplayer system with much higher performance for improved precision and gameplay. Integrated voice chat lets you talk with other players using your PC's mic.

9. Clan ID linking system lets you establish your indicated threat levels with other players in multiplayer. Players sharing a common ID in their callsigns are linked together as friendly contacts while different ID's are indicated as hostile. You can also link together in-game with another clan to form a larger group for better odds of success.

Something like that

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by warsign]

thebigJ_A · Post by **thebigJ_A** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:38 am

So there are perpetual universes being played by a bunch of different people on different servers? And different groups control their own area in space, having wars with each other?

That sounds pretty cool. How many people can be in a universe together?

[Edited on 9-18-2010 by thebigJ_A]

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:40 am

Right now, the max # is 35

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Originally posted by thebigJ_A
So there are perpetual universes being played by a bunch of different people on different servers? And different groups control their own area in space, having wars with each other?

Theoretically, yes.