Automatic Chaffs in F22 planes but not in Space Craft

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:30 pm

Dear Vice,

For 10 years I played F22, Mig29 and F16 (Novalogic) combat flight simulator games which had automatic anti-missile defense systems that came on (Chaffs and flares) when missiles were fired at you.
We are suppose to be in advanced military space craft thousands of years ahead of the F22 and no automatic missile defense systems?
Just a suggestion, your game is awesome and I am now an addict.

Thanks for all you do!

Post by **Vice** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:39 pm

Well, there can be points when you allow your computer to play more of a game for you than you do (and then you're just watching more of the action rather than participating in it). I tend to avoid drifting too far in that direction and want to keep the player involved in as much of the gameplay as feasible. I am working on some automated missile defense systems for the future, with limited effectiveness and equipment installation requirements. Some players may still decide they want control over CM's, to avoid waste and/or to shoot down incoming missiles.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Originally posted by Vice

Some players may still decide they want control over CM's, to avoid waste and/or to shoot down incoming missiles.

Considering the limited number of flares we carry, I'd agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.

Btw, it's odd that there would be a game (can't really call it a simulation) where F-16s deploy chaff and flares automatically. ECM, on the other hand, could probably be activated any time the pilot's RAW detects certain radar frequencies but I doubt many pilots would employ it. When you're trying to use stealth upon ingress to your target, the last thing you'd want is to have your jamming pod go off by itself ... kind of like a cell phone ringing while you're hiding behind some boxes (see last week's episode of Psych).

Besides, we don't carry jamming pods.

Edit: This, of course, is coming from a ground-pounder's point of view. There are probably times in air combat (or space combat) when automatic jamming of enemy missile guidance systems might come in handy. Unlike chaff and flares, ECM pods don't run out of anything ... so, I don't see any real downside (once the element of surprise is already lost). Except, of course, we don't have the pods.

[Edited on 9-28-2009 by Marvin]

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:07 pm

You get 100 chaffs on the F22.
Secondly, you could turn it on or off like the MDTS.
This would come in handy when your crippled and trying to escape.

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:22 pm

I like to manually use my cm's....Conserving them for tight situations is a good ideal

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:46 am

I like to have control over the CMs. And if you have an X52 you can program it to automatically dispense the number of CMs by pressing a button.

TGS · Post by **TGS** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:07 am

Uhm technically with predator drones... we as pilots don't even need to actively be in ships. With automation design and "AI" advancing at the pace it is. It is feasable that within the next 50-100 years a craft could be designed that could fly and fight completely without human interaction.

Just because it is possible doesn't make it a good idea. Besides its a game... one we play. If we aren't playing it... why bother? While it is amusing to watch computers fight each other... it doesn't really serve a lot of purpose at the end of the day.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:15 am

I mapped the CM control in one of the top joystick buttons so I can have it a hand any time.

I'm for the player control as it is why I buy the game, otherwise what I'm supposed to do? Give orders? That is a strategy game, not a simulation.

TGS · Post by **TGS** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:23 am

In some ways we are already at the level of advancement depicted in various sci-fi genre's at least in terms of global communications and computing. Now if we could just turn that focus to space we might stand a chance of survival should this planet truly be as bad off as people like to say.

However in terms of the Pilot vs No pilot in fighters I'm with the piloted concept. I just hope that people don't argue against technology we have now not being in the game when it really comes down to a matter of how far do you want to take automation.

Originally posted by Eclipse
Originally posted by TGS
Uhm technically with predator drones... we as pilots don't even need to actively be in ships. With automation design and "AI" advancing at the pace it is. It is feasable that within the next 50-100 years a craft could be designed that could fly and fight completely without human interaction.

Just because it is possible doesn't make it a good idea. Besides its a game... one we play. If we aren't playing it... why bother? While it is amusing to watch computers fight each other... it doesn't really serve a lot of purpose at the end of the day.
The Reaper UAVs bring a whole new world of battlefield possibilities. Roddenberry might have been onto something with the fighters in the Andromeda series.

Personally, I prefer the "pilot in charge" aspects of game play.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:15 pm

Originally posted by TGS
In some ways we are already at the level of advancement depicted in various sci-fi genre's at least in terms of global communications and computing. Now if we could just turn that focus to space ....

Sadly, it's not likely. The almighty dollar rules ... if it doesn't make money, then it doesn't get done. Space exploration simply doesn't give investors enough bang for the buck.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:21 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse
The Reaper UAVs bring a whole new world of battlefield possibilities. Roddenberry might have been onto something with the fighters in the Andromeda series.

In space the use of drones could easily end up being as terrible a legacy as land mines are currently.......................

2285: Earth Alliance and Federation Forces Sign the Drone non-proliferation Treaty, Including a unilateral task-force to eradicate the estimated 15 Million 'rogue-drones' left behind from previous military conflicts. The treaty is the first joint between these two opposed states, with corporations and guilds on both sides pushing for the treaty. Guild estimates state that the drones cause the disruption of trade routes worth over 16 Billion credits per year.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:53 pm

Originally posted by verbosity

Guild estimates state that the drones cause the disruption of trade routes worth over 16 Billion credits per year.

And that doesn't even include damage caused by V'ger.

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:00 pm

In the Dune universe thinking machines have been wiped out and replaced with MENTATS!

How would a machine know when it should fire chaff? When to jump?! It wouldn't. I proclaim today Butlerian Jihad Day!

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:12 pm

LOL

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:03 pm

Adding to what Eclipse said, an automated system would probably launch flares every time you get an "inbound missile" warning. The ship's AI would need to be a lot more sophisticated before it could tell if and when you're going too fast for those missiles to catch you ... or that you're expert enough to shoot down the missiles before they reach your ship.

Star King · Post by **Star King** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:44 pm

This is just a suggestion, how about having an on / off switch to release Chaffs every 2 seconds rather then having to hit a key every time to release chaffs?

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:15 pm

Originally posted by Star King
This is just a suggestion, how about having an on / off switch to release Chaffs every 2 seconds rather then having to hit a key every time to release chaffs?

You can program one of your buttons on a Saitek X52 to do this!;)