Decloaking

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:37 pm

It could just be my imagination, but it seems like enemy AI are firing missiles on me as soon as I decloak. This is odd, because it usually takes me about 2 seconds or so to acquire a lock, so either:

1. I'm not counting seconds right (one-thousand one, one-thousand two)
2. They can lock on me while I'm cloaked, but can't fire for some reason.
3. They have magic missiles that lock instantly (where can I find a container of those?):P

Goatnado386 · Post by **Goatnado386** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:54 pm

Hey, are cloaking devices limited use? When I saw them for sale at a station, it looked as if they are used like ammo.

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:02 pm

There are two types. The limited use which seats in missle bay, and the generator which lasts maybe a minute or two, but is unlimited.

Post by **Vice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:04 pm

Ah, there is an option for them to fire right after you decloak if you decloak right in front of them within missile range. Probably not as 'fair' as it should be

Hey, are cloaking devices limited use? When I saw them for sale at a station, it looked as if they are used like ammo.

There are two types of stealth. One uses a secondary hardpoint and can only be used once. The other is a generator that uses your shield arrays to create a stealth field and it is reusable.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:34 pm

A reusable stealth generator.. gosh, that sounds overpowered. Maybe you should have to carry around a box of Anti-matter cells to keep the generator going.

^ Sarcasm. But seriously, the same argument about the Excalibur could apply to the Stealth Generator... and yet no one has mentioned it.
Probably once a few people have been killed over and over by someone who is adept with the usage of their generator, the requests for a limit will start flowing in. :|

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:20 pm

Originally posted by Jeremy
A reusable stealth generator.. gosh, that sounds overpowered. Maybe you should have to carry around a box of Anti-matter cells to keep the generator going.

^ Sarcasm. But seriously, the same argument about the Excalibur could apply to the Stealth Generator... and yet no one has mentioned it.
Probably once a few people have been killed over and over by someone who is adept with the usage of their generator, the requests for a limit will start flowing in. :|

Erm I'm guessing you're using sarcasm there, nice to see you back jer....

I've used the stealth generator to score easy kills, and its much harder than using a single use one ( because there are already limitations to it), frack, its easier to score kills jumping planet-side to ambush a pilot.....

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:21 pm

The point is that Stealth DOES have a limiting factor: Energy. I must admit, though, that I have opposed reusable stealth when it was introduced. Since I have not noticed it giving any unfair advantages due to well-planned time constraints and energy depletion, I've since dropped my opposition of the generator.

SVB · Post by **SVB** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:18 am

lol
I would love if bigger ships could carry more equipment!! Grrrr

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:08 am

I pulled my stealth generator out of storage today for my first PvP encounter in legends. I found that as long as I was careful, I was able to use it to great success by sneaking up close to my enemy, uncloaking, launching a rack of excals and then fleeing. I found that the best method was to keep my power redirected to my
"energy capacitor" so that I could quickly jump away if I failed to completely destroy my target.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:22 pm

Its use is limited by energy, which means that if you messed with excals such that it required full energy, you would not be able to use them and the stealth generator together, defeating their purpose.

Same argument as with using a resource: it doesn't work with milspec ships.

By imposing new limits on these things, you essentially ruin them. I think Vice had them right to begin with.

Steallth really doesn't aid in combat that much: it's just fun to use, and in the hands of an experienced pilot, it might have an edge, but because of its limitations, it's not really that great, and so saving up your money for one (32M or so) leads to dissappointment. It drains shields AND weapons energy, so when you decloak you're a sitting duck (unless you're moving) and you can't fire (unless you decloak prematurely or you have missiles) and the enemy AI can fire instantly because they have a lock on you somehow.

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:18 pm

I always felt that stealth was great for Exploring and non-combat applications. To use stealth for purely tactical and combat situations should be limited, but for peaceful means it should have unlimited use, what can that hurt?

When I was playing in one of my favorite games Earth & Beyond, I played the Jenquai for the fact that I could cloak, don't get me wrong there were very powerful foes who could see through my cloak, and I made a point not to get to close to them, but all in all it was very fun to use, but the cloaking abilities in this game seems to be more of a novelty then anything else. I saved for the generator and was very disappointed because I couldn't really do anything with it.

The only real use I can see is an element of surprise, coming form an explorer like myself, that doesn't do me any good.

If you look at the Star Trek Series, you see where the observers on the planet are cloaked to watch the inhabitants without interfering, again their using the technology for peaceful means.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if cloaking was used primarily for peaceful or even defensive means, then what can that hurt.

It's nice to know, If I'm on a hostile planet exploring, and I'm surprised by any hostiles, then I can just cloak and get the heck out of there, what harm am I doing to them?

I think the only disappointing thing for me is the limited cloaking abilities in this game.

That's just my take on it.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:44 pm

Well, you can't fire when cloaked. Also, you can't use your jump drive when you're cloaked, so if you're exploring a system, you are limited to what you can view within about a minute without jumping, hence, the stealth generator is not good for exploring.

It's really only good for
a) sneaking up on enemies before laying yourself wide open with no shields, hoping for a one-shot kill, or
b) doing reconnaissance misions
c) sitting in a station unmolested while you buy stuff (it's like buying a 36M station license for all stations that is good for about a minute each time)

[Edited on 3-29-2009 by Nigel_Strange]

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:00 pm

I think you guys are missing the point. If the stealth generator was perfect, everyone would use one all the time and it would get pretty old after someone had decloaked 300m behind you for the 50th time and rammed a bunch of missiles up your tail pipe. I think the stealth generator fits well within the paradigm of the game: it takes skill if you wish to use it well, it doesn't come without trade-offs, and there is risk involved in it's use. And when you finally do get the hang of using it in combat situations, it is a truly rewarding experience. Yes, it does leave you vulnerable, but that is half the fun. If it using the stealth generator was not risky, it would take a lot of the enjoyment out of getting a kill.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:37 pm

I have seen Wasp89 in action against [SW]Banjo and He really seems to have mastered using the Stealth Generator, [SW]Banjo did not have a chance!, I would have given him some Fulcrum Torpedos to help him if he had not provoked me!, later [SW]Banjo told me that he tought I was on Wasp89 side and there for unprovokedly attacked me!lol:P:P:P
[SW]Banjo however does know how to use His jumpdrive!:P

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:37 pm

Originally posted by Wasp89
And when you finally do get the hang of using it in combat situations, it is a truly rewarding experience.

I agree, it can be a rewarding experience in combat situations but what about us explorers. There's got to be a trade off where both can enjoy the benefits.

As an explorer, I just don't see it.

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:55 pm

Originally posted by Knight Rider
Originally posted by Wasp89
And when you finally do get the hang of using it in combat situations, it is a truly rewarding experience.
I agree, it can be a rewarding experience in combat situations but what about us explorers. There's got to be a trade off where both can enjoy the benefits.

As an explorer, I just don't see it.

Then, as an explorer, don't use it ^_^

There are plenty of items in the game that I wouldn't expect you to use as an explorer (e.g., Fulcrum Torpedoes, Mines, etc.) For you, the stealth generator may just be another one of these items.

That's not to say that it doesn't have limited use in exploration. Like it has been said already, it provides a way of escaping from hostiles. If a bunch show up, engage your cloak and hit the afterburners until you are out of scanner range. Sure, you will be on the run quite a bit, but certainly you would be running a lot less than you would be if you didn't have the generator. I intentionally avoid exploring hostile systems; with a generator, I would actually consider spending time exploring these areas.

I have done plenty of exploring myself, and have found (as I am sure you are well aware) that the most difficult part to explore in hostile systems are planets. Even if you can only use a stealth generator for a few minutes, that still provides plenty of time to get away from hostiles, even in an atmosphere--it also provides you enough time to fly up into space and jump away if necessary. Keep in mind, too, that as long as you are out of missile range, a hostile is not that much of a threat. So even if you are just using the generator to buy some time to stand away a bit, it will still have served a purpose. I would go so far as to say that a properly used stealth generator has the capability of greatly aiding an explorer at minimal cost (other than hitting you pretty hard in the pocketbook).

Yes, it will take some practice to learn how to use it in exploration, but the stealth generator isn't without it's uses. I will say, however, that it's usefulness extends primarily to the extremes of the roles in Legends; to pure fighters and pure explorers, because it comes at the loss of an equipment slot. For the fighter, the most likely thing to go is the mining/tractor beam; for the explorer, the most likely thing to go is the repair system or the canon relay system, both of which are basic
requirements for serious fighting.

AND YET: with our new-found ability to store items on stations, the stealth generator is a more viable and accessible option for your players who take on mixed roles.

In short, don't underestimate the usefulness of the stealth generator. I would challenge you to get one and try it out a bit; if you don't like it, sell it back.

Goatnado386 · Post by **Goatnado386** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:25 pm

I don't think a cloaking field generator is cheating. Hell, make it like Star Trek and drop the shields when cloaked if you feel the need to alter something. Then, when decloaking, let the shields have to charge back up on their own from 0%.

It would make it to where cloaked players would have to be damn sure before popping out on another player.

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:29 pm

Originally posted by ncc386
I don't think a cloaking field generator is cheating. Hell, make it like Star Trek and drop the shields when cloaked if you feel the need to alter something. Then, when decloaking, let the shields have to charge back up on their own from 0%.

It would make it to where cloaked players would have to be damn sure before popping out on another player.

I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting that it is cheating, and the generator already works that way

Goatnado386 · Post by **Goatnado386** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:04 pm

Originally posted by Wasp89
Originally posted by ncc386
I don't think a cloaking field generator is cheating. Hell, make it like Star Trek and drop the shields when cloaked if you feel the need to alter something. Then, when decloaking, let the shields have to charge back up on their own from 0%.

It would make it to where cloaked players would have to be damn sure before popping out on another player.
I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting that it is cheating, and the generator already works that way

Oh!

Okay, sounds good to me!

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:30 pm

Originally posted by ncc386
I don't think a cloaking field generator is cheating. Hell, make it like Star Trek and drop the shields when cloaked if you feel the need to alter something. Then, when decloaking, let the shields have to charge back up on their own from 0%.

It would make it to where cloaked players would have to be damn sure before popping out on another player.

The generator does work that way, but what good is it, if the cloak only last for a minute, I like ncc386 idea, and along with that, if the cloak could last longer that would be great.

[Edited on 3-29-2009 by Knight Rider]

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:43 pm

I think you've got a good point, Knight. Why shouldn't the Stealth Generator run indefinitely? It would not make it any more "powerful", and it would help explorers out a lot.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:02 am

As much as I'd love to see an improved stealth generator like you described, I'm sure some people would say it's imbalanced, and I'm still a little tired from defending Excalibers.

I'm happy to have a stealth generator that I don't have to reload.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:33 am

Well, seriously now - how does unlimited stealth time give you any more of an advantage over other players than a 60 second limit? It's not like it takes five minutes to sneak up on someone.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:42 am

Originally posted by Jeremy
Well, seriously now - how does unlimited stealth time give you any more of an advantage over other players than a 60 second limit? It's not like it takes five minutes to sneak up on someone.

you tried it yet?

Take it from me, scoring a kill is not as easy as it sounds, in fact the old stealth has a bigger advantage since you're generally ready to fight when you decloak.........

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:09 am

Well, I was talking about sneaking, not making the actual kill.