My Thoughts: Economy and Earning Credits

[Vainglorious]

I've been playing Evochron Renegades for six or seven hours now, total. My activities so far mostly include exploration, practicing with the ship controls, mining, and fiddling with my ship's aesthetics in the shipyard design panel.

Now, let's face it: In a privateer game, it's very important to learn how to make money, and how to do so as efficiently as possible when necessary. It's part of the tribunal of necessities: Pilot skill, skill at proper ship design, skill at earning money to make it all happen.

I've noticed that mining nets far more money than anything else I've tried. Grab a five-slot cargo bay, a mining laser, and search for a system with nice, high prices, then make 200,000 credits per full load (this requires jettisoning metal to make room for platinum and diamonds only). In less than an hour, and in only five runs, you'll have made over a million credits.

Racing and accepting (fetch) missions are two alternative options, but these seem to pay out approximately 9,000-15,000 credits per mission, which doesn't even come close to holding a candle to mining. They're fun to do for fun's sake a few times, but after that, efficiency matters most. What's more, these activities require you to burn (and replace) far more fuel than mining, cutting their profit margins even further.

Then there's fuel collecting. I've only tested this in nebulae so far, but I clocked the fuel gathering rate at 1 fuel unit per 3 seconds. This does strike me as "realistic" (insomuch as a nonexistent technology can be), but again, in the time it takes to fill up a 1200-unit tank of fuel, you could have made 600,000 credits through mining and just bought the fuel.

Perhaps this speeds up when close to a star?

Basically what I'm saying is that missions, racing, and fuel collecting are completely dwarfed by mining. I suspect (but don't know) that combat for profit can't come close to matching mining, either.

The one thing I suspect may eventually become more lucrative than mining is advanced trading -- at least, I hope so.

I'm just wondering if there's something I've overlooked, because mining seems far too powerful to me, rendering other money-making activities pointless except as a source of fun.

(DISCLAIMER: Note that I do enjoy doing stuff just for the fun of it, or I wouldn't like this genre at all. But that's beside the point.)

[Edited on 11-22-2008 by Vainglorious]

[Vice]

Interesting. Some thoughts:

I've noticed that mining nets far more money than anything else I've tried. Grab a five-slot cargo bay, a mining laser, and search for a system with nice, high prices, then make 200,000 credits per full load (this requires jettisoning metal to make room for platinum and diamonds only). In less than an hour, and in only five runs, you'll have made over a million credits.

That sounds about right for selective mining. It's been a very long standing request from a major portion of the player base to offer mining as an effective means of making money early in the game (something they complain isn't available in many other space games that significantly devalue mining in comparison to other activities), so that's what it's designed to do. A million in an hour might sound like a lot, and early in the game, that is pretty good. But that is (slow) pocket change for what you will need to survive much farther along in the game, in more hostile regions among far more powerful enemies and where prices are far higher. But it's enough to help get you started and many players appreciate this option of non-combat gameplay early on (they can often earn their first major overall ship upgrade in about that hour). It tends to get the most compliments and fewest complaints at around the current rate, which is right where I like to balance such gameplay options.

Racing and accepting (fetch) missions are two alternative options, but these seem to pay out approximately 9,000-15,000 credits per mission, which doesn't even come close to holding a candle to mining. They're fun to do for fun's sake a few times, but after that, efficiency matters most. What's more, these activities require you to burn (and replace) far more fuel than mining, cutting their profit margins even further.

Fun's sake is justification enough for many players to do other things than let their ship sit still for long periods of time mining. Many would rather make 400-500K in an hour racing or doing contracts rather than 1M in the same time period parking. Plus, when they know that it's building their future money making potential, it adds more to the value of the activity than just the activity itself... it's an investment. It's kind of up to the player as what they would prefer to do and what their goal is... that is, are you patient enough for the rather lackluster activity of mining if it pays really well, or would you prefer something that pays less, but is more exciting and can earn you more in the long run? There are often tradeoffs like this and they are even dynamic. What pays poorly now may pay much better later on in the game and/or at other locations. What you find as one situation at one place may be very different somewhere else. There are ways to make racing and other activities much more worthwhile, if the player is willing to put the effort into discovering how (and in some cases, where).

Fuel management is an important part of the mix. If you blast around with the afterburner all the time, you'll be wasting fuel far faster. Skilled racers have learned how to win a race without wasting a lot of their profit in fuel. Six way directional controls, lean burning, and the IDS can come in handy in many situations where saving fuel can improve profit. I'd venture to guess you'd find several pilots who could make surprising sums by recovery missions in one hour

Then there's fuel collecting. I've only tested this in nebulae so far, but I clocked the fuel gathering rate at 1 fuel unit per 3 seconds. This does strike me as "realistic" (insomuch as a nonexistent technology can be), but again, in the time it takes to fill up a 1200-unit tank of fuel, you could have made 600,000 credits through mining and just bought the fuel.

Fuel prices vary greatly, you could say even more so than variations in commodities. Recovering fuel in safe space is nice to refuel your ship, but I would not suggest it as an option for making much profit, at least early in the game at many locations.

Perhaps this speeds up when close to a star?

You should be able to recover about twice as many photon particles near a star than you can get from a nebula cloud.

Basically what I'm saying is that missions, racing, and fuel collecting are completely dwarfed by mining. I suspect (but don't know) that combat for profit can't come close to matching mining, either.

In Sapphire, that sounds about right. Mining is significantly rewarded and contract pay is low for players who have not earned much of a reputation for completing much of anything. As you build your reputation, the price you command for your services goes up and you'll soon find your contract pay dwarfs what you could earn mining. Many elements of this game are dynamic, they change as you progress, either for the better or for the worse. And they vary based on the activity or objective involved. What you do in the game determines who will pay you best for what and where. When you first start out, mining is a great way to earn some credits because it doesn't depend on your behavior or performance track record like so many other elements of gameplay do. But that is not a static condition, it can and will change.

For combat, it depends on how skilled you are. Even early in the game, you can make very good money by fighting in the right location for the right factions... if you're skilled.

The one thing I suspect may eventually become more lucrative than mining is advanced trading... at least, I hope so.

That is one thing... but not the only one by any measure I can make way over ten times more than what you quote above in 1/10 the time without firing a shot. You will also learn such options eventually. Some of them involve thinking outside of the box of what one might think is regular gameplay.

I'm just wondering if there's something I've overlooked, because mining seems far too powerful to me, rendering other money-making activities pointless except as a source of fun. It seems a shame to render certain activities pointless from a monetary standpoint.

If 1M in an hour is too powerful to you, then it may certainly seem unbalanced. To others, it's too slow/low. To others, it's just right. It's too subjective to make a conclusive factual claim about. But with all of the other conditions, options, and changes explained above, you can see that mining is not always the top option for earning credits, in fact, it's actually fairly far down the list with regard to time. But, it's safe and effective early in the game, which many new players appreciate it for. It's not as glamorous as racing or performing other peaceful contracts, plus it does not earn any contract reputation credit, you gain nothing for your reputation as a mercenary for hire by mining. So in the long run, it's good for an early game activity, but it's not something that can sustain your account for very long if you're interested in progressing to more advanced areas in the game and desire to explore other gameplay options.

(DISCLAIMER: Note that I do enjoy doing stuff just for the fun of it, or I wouldn't like this genre at all... but that's beside the point.)

That's great! Hopefully, you'll find plenty to do in this game just for the fun of it

[Edited on 11-22-2008 by Vice]

[Vainglorious]

That's pretty much exactly the reply I wanted to see, Vice. In retrospect, I should have included more thoughts in the original post, because I had considered that other methods of earning money would outstrip mining eventually, through building a better reputation, finding new areas, developing new techniques, et cetera. I just wasn't sure, because (as all should be aware) I'm quite ignorant regarding the long-term game mechanics.

I was a bit worried that mining would remain king throughout an entire game, and making so much money so quickly sort of felt like cheating to me. After all, if you can get "free" money whenever you want, that takes some of the fun out of the game. But as you say, mining is one of the most boring activities, and ultimately isn't even the most profitable activity... and expenses will eventually skyrocket to the point where you need large quantities of money just to get by anyway.

The important thing I can take away from this is that there's good profit to be made in any endeavor, if one spends enough time learning the ropes and figuring out what needs to be done.

Thank you for the in-depth reply! It assuaged my concerns, and I'm looking forward to continuing the adventure while facing increasing challenges.

[Edited on 11-22-2008 by Vainglorious]

[tha_rami]

Heh, Vice is a 'star' in taking time for his players.

I'm personally a hopeless miner, I like just mining for my cash and exploring the universe, but now and then, I pick up a combat contract for the fun of it . Others I know are traders, some are downright pirates - and so on and on.

[Blackship]

If you must mine for your major source of funds then at least find a hidden planet for your trade post...that 1 million an hour will turn to 6-20 million per load!

I like mining, window washing, courier service and combat runs, especially where I'm not wanted;)

Flying through rings (...shudder), and scanning for missing objects doesn't do it for me.

[BraveHart]

There are some excellent ways to earn money in this Space Sim.....One is to find the containers and load up your cargo bays and sell the items at station's for some great in-game credits . Enjoy your time and think outside the box for some Cool Profits....

[Fearless]

Yes, once containers are found you can easily make 40 to 45 Million in one run depending what you find and where you sell of course.

[Edited on 11-22-2008 by Fearless]

[verbosity]

Originally posted by Fearless
Yes, once containers are found you can easily make 40 to 45 Million in one run depending what you find and where you sell of course.

[Edited on 11-22-2008 by Fearless]

hehe you found that one too ?

if its the right one, that equates to over 1 bil per hour

[Edited on 11-22-2008 by verbosity]