Race contracts necessary to progress?

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:25 pm

Anyway to get past these stupid race objectives? This is the first space sim i ever played that had them and now im understanding why.

Post by **Vice** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:22 pm

No, in short, races aren't necessary to 'progress'. You can skip them, other objectives, modes, options, and/or any quests you want any time and complete any of the other options available.

That's one of the nice benefits of a freeform game. If you encounter something you don't want to do, have too much difficulty doing, or just aren't interested in, you can skip it/them entirely and do other things you are interested in and can complete.

I can say that while races may be subjectively stupid to you, they do serve a useful purpose in helping with learning ship control and maintaining consistent flight paths at higher speeds, using all six directional/rotational axis controls and degrees of freedom, rather than just turn-n-burn which is severely limiting. All useful in combat, evasion, attack runs, etc.

If you don't mind the possible spoiler and would like some guidance on completing them, you may want to watch this video:

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Well i think the problem is that i have 3 fuel tanks several cargo bays and an engine upgrade. Mass means inertia and i will never be able to take corners like this guy. Plotted point to point (the way space ships are supposed to fly unless orbiting) id win with extra thrust.

Post by **Vice** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:37 pm

They can be completed in anything from a Talon to a StarMaster (and any military ship, including the hefty one in the video), but it does take some practice and careful velocity/control management. And difficulty does scale with mass (and wing/thruster set to a smaller degree). If you're not completing any at this point, might be best to just avoid them for now and go on to other things, then maybe come back to it later.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:42 pm

I feel your pain. Like you, I'm not coordinated enough to win a race ... so I take out my frustration by blowing the winner to smithereens. Back in the day when most of us were busy doing Over the Hill, Seejay (a very coordinated pilot, indeed) was kind enough to provide a profile which skipped the otherwise required win at the races. Luckily, the current Legacy quests have no such requirement.

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:12 am

Ok im done. 4 tries is enough. If the races are necessary to progress throught the guild story line, im out.

Good to hear that they arent in legacy, i plan on buying that when it supports trackir.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:31 am

They exist in Legacy ... but not in any of the current quests. And, in my experience, you only find them in star systems which are strongly in favor of your own faction. Personally, I skip the races and, instead, find a planet with animal life and go bird hunting (it pays better, too).

Post by **Vice** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:56 am

Good to hear that they arent in legacy, i plan on buying that when it supports trackir.

Legacy has always supported TrackIR, but you may need to update your game list in the TrackIR software for the game to show up since it is a newer release.

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:20 am

The last demos of Legacy i downloaded did not work with trackir, that was yesterday. The reason that Mercenary and Avochron do is that you compiled new binaries against the new c++ lib requirement. When you do the same for Legacy I may buy it, on the other hand i may not, if only because you keep insisting that trackir works with your software when it doesnt. You need to test these things before you make assumptions and assign blame.
And yes i installed the c++ libs you linked to, both the 64 bit and x86 versions. Im running the lastest version of trackir software and trackir works great in x3ap, EM, Avoch Alliance, il2 and even freespace2. The only space sim software i have on my computer that doesnt work with trackir is the EL demo.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:32 pm

I certainly try not the make assumptions, it simply works for others (including me). Yours is the only report I have at the moment of it not working. So when I claim it works with my software, I am basing that on results and not assumption. There may be another dependency that is not installed on your system, I'll be happy to explore the issue further as may be needed.

Just because a game may have a dependency on a 3rd party (ie Microsoft) system, whether DirectX, MFC, or something else, that doesn't mean the software 'doesn't work' for everyone else (or anyone else for that matter). It works fine, just not on systems that have a missing or corrupt file the game depends on. And since other players have the file in place, it works fine for them. So I would stand by the claim the game itself works fine with TrackIR, including on your system once the needed Microsoft software that it didn't have before is in place.

So in the meantime (until the next update), you should be able to just copy the mfc100.dll redist file from either the Mercenary or Arvoch install folder over to the Legacy install folder and have it work on your system.

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:21 pm

Well its nice of you to at least admit that the problem was with the software. I installed the dependencies you recommended and legacy still didnt work.

Vice wrote:I certainly try not the make assumptions, it simply works for others (including me). Yours is the only report I have at the moment of it not working. So when I claim it works with my software, I am basing that on results and not assumption. There may be another dependency that is not installed on your system, I'll be happy to explore the issue further as may be needed.

Once again its not my system. I know you want to beleive that and make others beleive it, but the fact is that mercenary and alliance worked only after you recompiled them and you mentioned a problem with dependencies in the trackir sdk kit.

Vice wrote: Just because a game may have a dependency on a 3rd party (ie Microsoft) system, whether DirectX, MFC, or something else, that doesn't mean the software 'doesn't work' for everyone else (or anyone else for that matter). It works fine, just not on systems that have a missing or corrupt file the game depends on. And since other players have the file in place, it works fine for them. So I would stand by the claim the game itself works fine with TrackIR, including on your system once the needed Microsoft software that it didn't have before is in place.

So in the meantime (until the next update), you should be able to just copy the mfc100.dll redist file from either the Mercenary or Arvoch install folder over to the Legacy install folder and have it work on your system.

If there were some missing or corrupt file on my system none of the other games would work with trackir and legacy would at least work after several reinstallations. EM and AA worked with the latest trackir software only after you recompiled them. Im quickly losing my motivation to buy legacy given your "its not my problem attitude" so as far as im concerned you can take your time with the update and btw copying that dll didnt work.
You know you really badly need to hire a customer service person to interact with the public. Your games are bordering on genius but you could use a lot of improvement in the customer relations arena.

BTW you should know that im thinking about contacting naturalpoint to get a 3rd party opinion on whether or not legacy works with their software. That should settle it.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:58 pm

Well its nice of you to at least admit that the problem was with the software. I installed the dependencies you recommended and legacy still didnt work.

Bummer, well it's good to know that didn't work as that changes the condition entirely then. Especially considering all of the games all use the same TrackIR module, yet one of them isn't working on your system with the same solution.

The reason that Mercenary and Avochron do is that you compiled new binaries against the new c++ lib requirement.... Once again its not my system. I know you want to beleive that and make others beleive it, but the fact is that mercenary and alliance worked only after you recompiled them and you mentioned a problem with dependencies in the trackir sdk kit.

I didn't recompile the game binaries. In fact, all of the game binaries are still exactly the same as before. It wasn't an issue on that side of the equation. Only the installers were updated to include the redist file. And that's why adding the file from Microsoft (that was apparently missing from your system) should be all that is needed for it to work. I also tested with and without the runtime files installed as well as with and without the redist file installed. And the results were, all conditions were successful with the needed file(s) in place. So it would not make sense that the same solution that worked for the other two games would not work for the third. There could be one other possible explanation for this (more below).

If there were some missing or corrupt file on my system none of the other games would work with trackir and legacy would at least work after several reinstallations.

And with this occurring, the only other thing that it might be that comes to mind is the game list is not current within the TrackIR software you are using. If you are still seeing the DLL error message, then the TIR module is not able to find the mfc100.dll in the game's install folder. If you are no longer seeing the DLL error message and the TrackIR device is just not working, then the game list may be the cause. Are you still seeing the DLL error message? If not, have you updated the game list and checked to verify that Evochron Legacy is now listed there?

Edit: this is where it should appear on the game list in the TIR software under the titles tab:

You know you really badly need to hire a customer service person to interact with the public. Your games are bordering on genius but you could use a lot of improvement in the customer relations arena.

Not sure what you expect me to say or not, I will admit I am pretty clinical and to the point.

If that comes across as rude or insensitive, I certainly apologize. But I do try to provide the information and potential solutions as they become available and/or are tested.

BTW you should know that im thinking about contacting naturalpoint to get a 3rd party opinion on whether or not legacy works with their software. That should settle it.

That would be fine, I've had a relationship with them for over a decade and would welcome their input. However, since this is an in-house system, they wouldn't really be able to help. We'd be ahead to diagnose things further to find out why the same solution isn't working for the one game on your system while it's working on the other two, even though they all use the same system. To me, that suggests the remaining possibility of the game list still not being current for the newer release of Legacy.

And regardless, I'll gladly keep at it until we can pin down whatever the cause may be and it works on your system.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:48 am

You know you really badly need to hire a customer service person to interact with the public. Your games are bordering on genius but you could use a lot of improvement in the customer relations arena.

I think that, if you bother to peruse the Tech Support section of the forum, you might find that such an opinion is singularly yours. And, if you'd like to compare Vice's customer relations (and support) to another developer of SciFi games, I can steer you toward a really good comparative example.

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:06 am

Vice wrote:
Not sure what you expect me to say or not, I will admit I am pretty clinical and to the point. If that comes across as rude or insensitive, I certainly apologize. But I do try to provide the information and potential solutions as they become available and/or are tested.

BTW you should know that im thinking about contacting naturalpoint to get a 3rd party opinion on whether or not legacy works with their software. That should settle it.
That would be fine, I've had a relationship with them for over a decade and would welcome their input. However, since this is an in-house system, they wouldn't really be able to help. We'd be ahead to diagnose things further to find out why the same solution isn't working for the one game on your system while it's working on the other two, even though they all use the same system. To me, that suggests the remaining possibility of the game list still not being current for the newer release of Legacy.

And regardless, I'll gladly keep at it until we can pin down whatever the cause may be and it works on your system.

Well i was hoping you would decide to support trackir for legacy but it doesnt look like thats going to happen so, ok thats fine. I dont know where you got that screen grab from but this is the current supported games list.
http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/games/

Thats the same list displayed in the current trackir control panel. Since legacy doesnt appear on the current supported games list you might want to remove the trackir banner from the legacy download page. I wish i would have actually looked at that list earlier, i would have given up sooner and saved us both some trouble

Post by **Vice** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:19 am

Well i was hoping you would decide to support trackir for legacy but it doesnt look like thats going to happen so, ok thats fine. I dont know where you got that screen grab from but this is the current supported games list.
http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/games/

Thats the same list displayed in the current trackir control panel. Since legacy doesnt appear on the current supported games list you might want to remove the trackir banner from the legacy download page.

That is interesting, can't explain the discrepancy on their website. The game was listed privately for a long time while it was beta, perhaps they never flipped the listing to public there. I will follow up with them on that. But the game is included in the game list within their software for me as of testing it just now. That screenshot was taken today from their program.

So I take it that means you no longer get the DLL error and now the TrackIR device is simply not responding in the game?

Edit: Update - Natural Point informed me that the list is simply out of date and the game should be added shortly along with several others that hadn't been added yet.

m0rl0ck · Post by **m0rl0ck** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:12 am

Ok i got the latest trackir software with game and sw updates turned on and a few minutes ago evochron legacy wasnt there. Now it has appeared and the .dll fix you mentioned works.

Thanks for your help.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:44 am

And once again, as stated before, the support provided from Vice and the endurance for solving any kind of issues is amazing.!

I have never encountered support similar to what Vice provides for any software or service. Ever!

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Race contracts necessary to progress?

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