How to Jump right to a planet upper orbit? If you need to pick up a cargo in the equator latitude!!!

[WarriorneX]

Hello, guys, I'm asking this question out of frustration.... after finding my mantis jump drive, I decided to do the long journey to a point of interest, super fun, but the damn auto-pilot start to move in circles like a maniac until the FTL is charged... so I needed to cancel it and then turn it on, and so for like 45 minutes..... Dunno what the hell is going on with my autopilot. Anyway, after arriving to this new system there was a planet so I created a sensor station and that planet was surrounded by cargo dots all over the middle of the planet. So after setting my Nav point to the middle of the planet and then moving it to one edge cuz I didn't wanted to explode, I used rear view center the nav to the cargo that was in the middle but a bit to the north. Then I went to 3D view to check that I was away from the atmosphere, and everything was looking great.


Confident in my navigations abilities I hit the FTL DRIVE ENGAGE!!!!! aaaaaaandddd BOOOOOOM....

So after 45 minutes of travel I didn't saved in the new system, I lost all my fly time, I said hmmm, lets master the navigation skill to jump just outside of a planet atmosphere even if I'm plotting the navigation to the equator of the planet.

So far impossible!!!!! all my attempts ended in disaster...

the only thing I know that works is to set the nav point to the left most edge or right most edge of the planet or all the edges of the planet where I know I'll be safe and then flying towards the cargo or whatever place I need to visit in the planet.....

so is there any kind of magic to set your nav coordinate to the middle of the planet and then set the Y: value, to the outer atmosphere, so when you jump in, you are in a safe place?


Please help me out, I had tried everything!!!!. I'm wasting tons of fuel flying around the edge of the planet, to then land on the planet and recover the cargo.

Something else is that sometimes I find cargos in bodies of water, and with the tractor beam is impossible to recover them because they are 250 units away, and the tractor beam needs to be like 150 units away for it to recover anything, I still don't have the terrain walker so dunno if those cargos are meant for it.

[Marvin]

Try using the "Planet" button on the left side of the navigation map.

[Marvin]

As for cargo, target it with the NumPad 0 key so you can "sit" on the targeting icon. Then use your tractor. Have at least two empty cargo bays in case you also pick up some water.

[WarriorneX]

ok I know about the planet button..... but what if I want to jump to the middle of the planet without exploding from the atmosphere?

[SeeJay]

If you figure out (trial and error) how far out from the planet center you need to plot on the PZ-axis without dying,
then apply the offset on the PY-axis instead will do the trick.

All planets are not the same size, so having a general number (offset) won't work.

[WarriorneX]

If you figure out (trial and error) how far out from the planet center you need to plot on the PZ-axis without dying,
then apply the offset on the PY-axis instead will do the trick.

All planets are not the same size, so having a general number (offset) won't work.

After hours of trials and errors, I still can't figure it out, I was thinking I had it, but it's different, even that the general idea should be correct, but for example try to plot a nav coord to the north pole, left click on the middle of the planet and then try to change the angle of attack, to leave you in an orbit of 100k from the surface of the planet.

If you get it right try to do the same but this time at the equator of the planet. It should be easier cuz you can see the the edge of the planet.

So basically, can't there be an algorithm to prevent you from jumping straight into the atmosphere of any planet?, I can make the algorithm, but I need numbers, planet gravity force, atmosphere density, total circumference of the planet, can all that data be generated ? or is there any kind of mod similar, to what I'm asking?

I'll keep working on my maths, and trying to figure it out, once I have more (trial and error) data I might be able to figure out an algorithm to plot safe jumps to any part of the planet without touching the critical atmosphere.

[WarriorneX]

As for cargo, target it with the NumPad 0 key so you can "sit" on the targeting icon. Then use your tractor. Have at least two empty cargo bays in case you also pick up some water.

I don't know what I did to my game, but I can't target cargo crates by hitting numpad key '0', it will target everything else, but won't target the cargo. The only targetable cargos are those found that says " unknown content", please let me know if I need to do anything in order to target all cargos found in planets and in space. would make my life easier.

[XenonSurf]

Planets are very tricky because you may burn in the atmosphere if you approach them the wrong way.
What I do is:
If a mission gives me a planet waypoint, or if I know I'm going to the surface, I will manually place a waypoint a little outside the planet's atmosphere, change to Inertial and set the speed to below 3000. This will place you above the atmosphere without problems. I then stay in inertial by increasing my speed to 5000-6000 until I get the Gravity warning and then immediately switch to 3000 or below again.
Actually you can fly a little over 3000 on the surface, but better not stretch or overdo it

Returning to space:
You have to stay at 3000 speed until you are in space again, pitch up 70+ degrees until you get 'Hud to space mode', level out without pointing in the atmosphere, and you can again go over 3000 speed again. Make a similar waypoint selection to jump at another orbit section if needed.

Exploration out-of-system:
Take a lot of metals for your constructor, also the refueler is a must-have, and be sure you QUICKSAVE at least once when you arrive.
Your travel time (ETA) will be 20 seconds per jump (10 seconds jump + 10 seconds jump drive cooling), so take the distance, calculate and go play pacman in the meantime
Also important: 1 jump cost you 5 fuel units, better not run out...
Tip: Correct your Z waypoint position up or down (rear view), so you won't run in a sun by mistake when being away...

Hope this helps,
XenonS


[Edited on 4-15-2016 by XenonSurf]

[SeeJay]

You can actually do Planet Falls way over 3000 if executed properly!
(In atmosphere)

[Edited on 2016-4-15 by SeeJay]

[XenonSurf]

You can actually do Planet Falls way over 3000 if executed properly!
(In atmosphere)

[Edited on 2016-4-15 by SeeJay]

Updated my post above.
I dunno, but I guess your plating is also important.

XenonS

[Marvin]

Your angle of attack is important. As for exploration, the Navigator's Assistant (previously known as the Travel Buddy) will give you ETE and EFE.

[Edited on 4-15-2016 by Marvin]

[WarriorneX]

so how do you guys approach the problem of having to pick up a cargo that is in the same middle of the planet for example? as right now, it's a bit tricky for me, that was all I was asking. But thx for all the wonderful information that you guys provided, and for the navigator's assistant which is great. Maybe a new kind of Navigator's Assistance can be modified for safe jumps into any part of a planet while staying outside of the atmosphere. With the right maths I know it's possible. Basically we would just need to solve something like this :

Let (a1,a2,a3)(a1,a2,a3) and (b1,b2,b3)(b1,b2,b3) be two unit vectors perpendicular to the direction of the axis and each other, and let (c1,c2,c3)(c1,c2,c3) be any point on the axis. (If v=(v1,v2,v3)v=(v1,v2,v3) is a unit vector in the direction of the axis, you can choose a=(a1,a2,a3)a=(a1,a2,a3) by solving a⋅v=0a⋅v=0, scaling aa to make ||a||=1||a||=1, then letting b=a×vb=a×v.)

Then for any rr and θθ, the point (c1,c2,c3)+rcos(θ )(a1,a2,a3)+rsin(θ )(b1,b2,b3)(c1,c2,c3)+rcos⁡(θ )(a1,a2,a3)+rsin⁡(θ )(b1,b2,b3) will be at distance rr from (c1,c2,c3)(c1,c2,c3), and as θθ goes from 00 to 2π2π, the points of distance rr from (c1,c2,c3)(c1,c2,c3) on the plane containing (c1,c2,c3)(c1,c2,c3) perpendicular to the axis will be traced out.

So the parameterization of the circle of radius r around the axis, centered at (c1,c2,c3)(c1,c2,c3), is given by
x(θ )=c1+rcos(θ )a1+rsin(θ )b1

y(θ )=c2+rcos(θ )a2+rsin(θ )b2

z(θ )=c3+rcos(θ )a3+rsin(θ )b3

I found this while looking for Parametric Equation of a circle in 3D space, and is a copy paste from:

http://math.stackexchange.com/questions ... n-3d-space

So basically we just need to set the maximum radius and with the help of a tool that will be calculating the radius of the values of x, y, z we will be able to click on the cargo drop that we want to recover and it will give us the right numbers to stay outside of atmosphere.

Let me know if my idea sounds way too crazy, or if it is too much. maybe I don't know the developer can provide any insight or dunno. So far I already had my algorithm and by gettings the numbers right i can plot nav point to any part of the planet without problems, but it can be a little bit overwhelming when you start to have a lot of number and then you need to calculate the changes in x,y,z.




[Edited on 4-16-2016 by WarriorneX]

[WarriorneX]

Maybe I will need to do a kindly request to see if this can be implemented in the future. Just let me know guys.

[Marvin]

If you use the "Planet" button, it will place you as close to the atmosphere as you can safely get. My guess is Vice is using some kind of algorithm in his computation for where to place the jump point when you use the button. Any closer would be cutting it too close. If your point is to get as close as possible to a specific location (object) on the planet, for that you'll need to plot a point in space which is in a direct (3-D) line to the object, perpendicular to the planet's surface. Then jump to that point and use the button.

[Edited on 4-16-2016 by Marvin]

[WarriorneX]

If you use the "Planet" button, it will place you as close to the atmosphere as you can safely get. My guess is Vice is using some kind of algorithm in his computation for where to place the jump point when you use the button. Any closer would be cutting it too close. If your point is to get as close as possible to a specific location (object) on the planet, for that you'll need to plot a point in space which is in a direct (3-D) line to the object, perpendicular to the planet's surface. Then jump to that point and use the button.

[Edited on 4-16-2016 by Marvin]

BEST ANSWER EVER!!!!!!!
Wow yea, now it all make sense, if you are in the planet already and you want to know how far away you need to ascend in order to get outside of the atmosphere, the planet button will give you that number, which is "Y" axis.

Now it all make sense and is even easier, now I just keep my maximum atmosphere related to the north pole of the planet, and I can see the safest atmosphere related to the position that my ship is currently at in the planet.

Wow took me a while but I finally mastered that.

Now to set sensor station at the north pole and south pole of all the planet and gather all those precious cargo.

Thx a lot for the help.

[Edited on 4-16-2016 by WarriorneX]

[Marvin]

If you need a diagram, let me know ... photobucket is my friend.

[matchbox2022]

Ffs. Someone actually busted out polar equation for a game? Damn. hardcore.

Yeah it literally gets easier with practise. Basically a cursor radius from the planet is as close as you should be jumping, but can get some pretty wicked re-entries when you get it right. Survivable ones.

[XenonSurf]

Ok, here is the 'fast planet descent' as referenced by Vice himself in DaveK's technical EM manual:

- From orbit you must head towards the planet with Inertial speed and with ~ 90° angle
- Your speed doesn't matter if you enter at 90°
- when getting the gravity message, immediately level out and set a speed below 3000.

This is IMO the fastest way to go planetside, and it will not consume much fuel. From orbit you can set IDS x9, engage max speed with 0 key and return to Inertial. You can then even add afterburner if you want, but you will only consume fuel and not go down much faster. To avoid burning your ship, you must face the atmosphere with the highest possible ship surface against friction (a low AoA), thus you must level out your ship +20° once in low atmosphere, otherwise...

As for returning to space, there is no trick to be fast, stay at 3000. With some light frames and engines that accelerate fast you can probably go orbit at 5500 because you are faster than the burning time...

XenonS


[Edited on 4-17-2016 by XenonSurf]

[SeeJay]

You can enter atmosphere way above 3000. Think of how the spaceshuttle returns to Earth.

[DaveK]

You can enter atmosphere way above 3000. Think of how the spaceshuttle returns to Earth.

... though it does take several weeks to repair the tiles!. And the crew are grateful they are wearing NASA space nappies:)

I must admit I didn't know about the planet button - by trial an error I found that jumping to a around 4-5mm above the planet (on the nav screen), kept me out of trouble but close enough to get down quickly - I must give the planet button a try - though presumably it'll take you to the safe point between where you are and the planet centre. Still it's an easy way to find the safe distance and then you can plot it above any point your interested in.

[XenonSurf]

In some missions from a station you are sent to the planet, for example collecting water for a city. A mission waypoint will then be set. You should NOT warp directly to this waypoint if your entry angle is way below 90° or you turn into a torch.
The planet button sends you in 90° direction towards the planet, so before you warp, set inertial and max speed. You then consume even less fuel because you don't have to accelerate to a high speed. Use same technique as above.

[ADD]
You can try to set a waypoint *into* the planet, but again your entry angle should get close to 90°. I don^t know what will happen if you warp, must try it out, but you need to level out immediately too I guess.


XenonS

[Edited on 4-18-2016 by XenonSurf]