Feature request - Controller mappings like in Elite Dangerous

[MdaG]

I have a feature request for Evochron Legacy. To be able to combine button mappings like in Elite Dangerous on an XBox controller. E.g. X-button + Right trigger = afterburner/boost.

I love being able to play barely ever needing to reach for the keyboard.

[Zarrakis]

While I probably won't use this functionality, I think it would be greatly appreciated by the scores of players coming over to check this game out. Then again, the game flies very differently so it may not work as expected.

[Edited on 1-2-2016 by Zarrakis]

[MdaG]

While I probably won't use this functionality, I think it would be greatly appreciated by the scores of players coming over to check this game out. Then again, the game flies very differently so it may not work as expected.

[Edited on 1-2-2016 by Zarrakis]

Very differently, really? Granted I havent sunk that many hours into it yet, but feel they're similar enough. One thing that's holding me back from conquering the universe is my inability to switch back and forth between Evochron Legacy and Elite Dangerous. After hundreds of hours I've managed to ingrain the controller layout of Elite into my brain. Switching to mouse and keyboard for Evochron will take some time to get used to.

Oh and my keyboard doesn't have the US layout so I haven't found all mappings yet.

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by MdaG]

[SeeJay]

You can remap any key binding if you need to so it works with your keyboard.

Can't really compare EL to Elite D flight either. ED is aircrafts in "black atmosphere" and the Flight Assistant OFF does not
simulate true inertia either. EL has true, unlimited speed, inertia.

The IDS on (Flight Assist ON) also has drifting if you go too fast, but the computers try to compensate, not like in ED where you have no drifting at all.

[Edited on 2016-2-2 by SeeJay]

[MdaG]

You can remap any key binding if you need to so it works with your keyboard.

Can't really compare EL to Elite D flight either. ED is aircrafts in "black atmosphere" and the Flight Assistant OFF does not
simulate true inertia either. EL has true, unlimited speed, inertia.

The IDS on (Flight Assist ON) also has drifting if you go too fast, but the computers try to compensate, not like in ED where you have no drifting at all.

[Edited on 2016-2-2 by SeeJay]

I'm interpreting your post meaning that an XBox controller not being as good a fit with Evochron as it is with Elite. I don't understand why though, is it just due to the drifting and the realistic inertia?

Since it's been a couple of days and no one has chipped in "on my side" I'll take your word for it.

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by MdaG]

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by MdaG]

[Bodega]

I know what he means, and it's actually quite useful. I have an X52. And if I want to use the pinkie button as a shift switch I either have to use the profile software, which can be a pain (I'll spend 20 minutes writing an Excel formula that saves me 5 minutes of tedious work). But in ED, I could actually bind the pinkie switch + Button A to whatever I wanted. I was psyched when I figured out I could do this right in the game's controller settings instead of using the Saitek (MadCatz) profiler software because then I didn't have to worry about what profile I had running before starting the game etc. Not sure if it can be done, that's a Vice question.

[tes]

i'm on your side.
SeeJay seems not to understand, what you are talking about.

we would like to have button combinations.
for example:
press A = nearest target
hold A + press B = next target
hold A + press C = gunsight target

we would be able to map more functions to our prefered input device.

i hope it's more clearer now.

[SeeJay]

I'm sorry if you got me wrong, but you said that you didn't have a US layout, that's why I said
that you can remap everything so it works!

Regarding the comparison between the games was just to clarify the differences since you mentioned ED.
I don't rant on ED, it's a cool game but I prefer the more realistic (my opinion) flight system in EL.

It could fit with the XBox controller, but be aware that the physics is different, that's all!

[marlowe221]

SeeJay,

I think the two of you may be talking past each other a little bit.

Currently you can map functions to an Xbox 360 controller such that pressing the A button does function X. However, since the Xbox controller does not have very many buttons, games like Elite have addressed this limitation by creating a system where combinations of buttons can also perform unique functions as well.

So while pressing the A button might be assigned to the jump drive, holding the A button while pressing an additional button could be assigned to opening up the Nav console (for example). This kind of control scheme drastically increases the number of functions that can be assigned to the controller, in the same way that using Shift or Ctrl on a keyboard can be a modifier for other keys.

Currently, unless I am greatly mistaken, Legacy does not permit assigning buttons on a controller in this way.

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by marlowe221]

[MdaG]

SeeJay,

I think the two of you may be talking past each other a little bit.

Currently you can map functions to an Xbox 360 controller such that pressing the A button does function X. However, since the Xbox controller does not have very many buttons, games like Elite have addressed this limitation by creating a system where combinations of buttons can also perform unique functions as well.

So while pressing the A button might be assigned to the jump drive, holding the A button while pressing an additional button could be assigned to opening up the Nav console (for example). This kind of control scheme drastically increases the number of functions that can be assigned to the controller, in the same way that using Shift or Ctrl on a keyboard can be a modifier for other keys.

Currently, unless I am greatly mistaken, Legacy does not permit assigning buttons on a controller in this way.

[Edited on 2-2-2016 by marlowe221]

Thanks, this is exactly what I mean. I realize I could've made this a lot clearer in my initial post.

Evochron also differentiates between analogue (triggers) and digital (face, shoulder) buttons. So combining a face button (e.g. X) with the right trigger won't be possible with the current implementation.

[DreadMetis]

+1 on a Shift fonction on HOTAS and other controllers

[D-Rail]

For some reason I was surprised this wasn't the case when I tried to bind things to my flight stick. In Elite I can bind everything I need to the stick buttons by allowing buttons to be modifiers for combinations. Not so much in Evochron, 1 button = 1 button, run out of possible bindings quick. Game is still quite playable, but I do need to use the keyboard for many functions that I wish I didn't have to.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

The OP has a point.. This is not the first request or post I have seen about adding fully mappable Xbox/Xbox One controller support I actually wanted the same thing but have gotten used to mouse flight.

A friend of mine on steam was going to buy this after trying the demo but also didn't because he couldn't reasonably bind a modifier for the controller button. Yes we both know xbox controller works what doesn't work is the ability to bind something like RB + Y or DpadUp+B where the dpad or rb are a modifier key which makes the button Y or B do something different than what they would do on their own.

This is the same friend I gave my Elite Dangerous Preset too as I made my own keybinds file which showed up as an extra profile in-game. The basic concept which works across MOST space sims works for Elite and I believe will work for this game as well. I will use an example taken from my Elite Profile I had NON hostile targeting set too DpadLeft+Y Cycle back, DpadRight+Y Cycle fwd, Button Y Target Select. The same combination except with Button B was used for Hostile target cycling where B on its own was nearest hostile. Cruise was bound to RB+LB. I hope it can be understood why I had it this way.

Y on xbox is Yellow B is Red in colour it's simple colour coding combined with two inputs for alternate function and in-case you are thinking where did the power settings go. I had Power set to Dpad values without anything else pressed.


Now as stated above the Elite profile concept works across any space game which supports friendly target selection with a separate system for enemy target. In this case the for management of the shield output would be on the dpad to choose where most of the shield power goes. Now we both thought the same thing, surely we can make a custom profile turns out you can't, why??

Because it doesn't store the profiles anywhere for anything other than the keyboard, while its possible for myself to painstakingly create a custom xbox bind profile even for this game I first need to know the button ID's so I can actually assign the correct buttons to functions using the joystick template which by the way already has the button ID's (numbers and some info on what the numbers represent which is what is missing in order to make a profile for the 360 controller).







Would I prefer proper re-bind ability you bet! Saves me trying to nut out a complex looking ID system.

I am no stranger to custom profiles I did one for Elite, I did one for SC, I did one for X3 and I also did a voice attack profile for Elite with over 130 phrases for everything you menu wise and with power presets, before anyone says.. no I am not trying to brag I just legitimately want to help these folks out who want a profile for the Xbox 360 Controller that they can make sense of and re bind.






[Edited on 2/3/2016 by Misunderstood Wookie]

[Amos Jameson]

I was hoping to be able to do the same thing so I posted a query on it a few days ago, this was Vice's reply:

"Unfortunately, no, not internally. The entire framework was designed around only ever requiring single key or button presses rather than combinations (with a few exception for alt-key combinations). However, the TM may support profiling software that allows you to assign multiple buttons for individual functions."

The TM he's referring to is my Thrustmaster hotas, I was hoping to be able to combine button presses using it and avoid going near the keyboard. Still, I've not found using the two has hindered me.

[Edited on 7-2-2016 by Amos Jameson]

[Vice]

For such an option, would one additional layer of button binding be enough? That is, say you want to bind buttons 2 and 3 to countermeasures. When the binding search is active, you press and hold 2, then press 3, then release both to bind the function that would then require both buttons be pressed. If you want 3 or more layers of buttons, that might complicate things. But I may be able to look into adding at least one layer of multiple button input bindings. Such options do of course usually mean giving up a button you want to use so you can press and hold it for the control function. But it's probably worth it for devices with limited overall button options.

[Radikal]

For such an option, would one additional layer of button binding be enough? That is, say you want to bind buttons 2 and 3 to countermeasures. When the binding search is active, you press and hold 2, then press 3, then release both to bind the function that would then require both buttons be pressed. If you want 3 or more layers of buttons, that might complicate things. But I may be able to look into adding at least one layer of multiple button input bindings. Such options do of course usually mean giving up a button you want to use so you can press and hold it for the control function. But it's probably worth it for devices with limited overall button options.

WOW, a great use for the X52 pinkie switch!!!!
Ahem, apologize for the outburst....

Uh oh, this method might mess with my dual trigger bindings as the second trigger is set by having the first trigger position already active when activating the second trigger switch.

Bleh, one step forward, one step sideways....

[Vice]

Uh oh, this method might mess with my dual trigger bindings as the second trigger is set by having the first trigger position already active when activating the second trigger switch.

Bleh, one step forward, one step sideways....

Hehe, yes, that's often how such things go. However, I'm pretty sure I can include the default bypass for multiple button bindings as well. So if you want to activate the second trigger switch, you would pull the trigger to stage one and hold it there, then click on the option to bind a button, then pull the trigger to the second stage to bind to that button, then release the trigger to finalize. Since trigger stage 1 will remain persistently active through the entire binding sequence, the game will ignore it if you select the bind option with it active. So it should still work to handle two stage triggers like that. Granted, I haven't fully explored the coding and functionality involved, but initially it seems like I should be able to preserve that manual bypass option.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

Seems it could work, so if I was to use RB+B on controller that would make RB useless for anything else right?
usually you would have a 5-8ms wait between activation which is more than enough to reasonably presume the person is pressing one button or a combination.

I guess most people including me are used to controllers and mappings where you can map buttons simultaneously for one function but each button on thier own still does another function.

Obviously I guess anything is better than no change and if push comes to shove there are some pretty good third-party controller mapping software around which I am sure could be used to bind keyboard presses anyway you want it to work which would work around the issue.

Thanks for the reply vice

[Vice]

A 5-8ms delay (or any delay for that matter) in a button response may not be desirable to some. There are quite a number of controls that benefit from immediate input and a delay means the game's reaction is that much slower to respond to the player's input. I'd be surprised if that was desirable functionality.

Technically, I guess you would still be able to map the button to two functions at the same time, but then both functions would activate when you activate the double button binding. It would probably best to dedicate one desired button for all alt functions and use it exclusively for that. But double mapping would still be an option, the game will just highlight the duplicate binding in red to indicate two functions have been assigned to one button.

I'll work on incorporating dual button binding options, then provide a test build so those interested can try it out and then decide if/how they might want it adjusted. From there, I can explore the feasibility of making such additional changes.

[Radikal]

Technically, I guess you would still be able to map the button to two functions at the same time, but then both functions would activate when you activate the double button binding. It would probably best to dedicate one desired button for all alt functions and use it exclusively for that. But double mapping would still be an option, the game will just highlight the duplicate binding in red to indicate two functions have been assigned to one button.

I had never before thought to try to intentionally bind one button to multiple actions, could be very interesting.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

A 5-8ms delay (or any delay for that matter) in a button response may not be desirable to some.

True, but when I worked on my own systems like this before the delay was just a global wait for all inputs kinda thing, the activation however was instant well as fast as you can press and release the buttons anyway.

The delay is just there for multi button binds so that a dedicated key isn't needed because of the short wait which gives the user enough time to press the secondary button, however the delay ends prematurely if the user releases the button. That is the crucial part all delays have to be able to be abruptly ended on button release when this happens the buttons single bind is triggered so tapping a button causes no real delay.

If it is better you normally would use the 1ms input delay time to detect such presses .

Either way I am looking forward to testing the build I will shoot you over an email.

[Vice]

Interesting. Delays just seem like an unnecessary negative compromise to me. A device with insufficient buttons just wouldn't be worth it to me to incorporate a forced delay on any input, especially if it were global. Controls that must be held down to activate (afterburner, thrusters, rotation, auto-level, etc, etc) would then be forced to suffer a delay at the expense of trying to cram a bunch of controls on a device that lacks sufficient input options. Immediate response controls would make sense to me and would likely be worth giving up one button for alternate two-button input options, if no other control option were available.

I've got the basic double button system in place now and may have a test build ready soon.

[Vice]

Ok, the test build with the dual button system in place is ready to download. If you would like to test this new control system, just send me a quick e-mail (starwraith.com > contact).

[Misunderstood Wookie]

Cheers, Vice I will give this version a whirl and let you know if anything odd comes up.

[marlowe221]

Vice,

The shoulder buttons (not the triggers) on an Xbox controller would probably be the ideal modifier keys. In fact, I have played some games where the four face buttons each have a function, the left "bumper" + the 4 face buttons each have a different function, and the right bumper + the 4 face buttons has a different function yet again. That allows for 12 individual functions.

It may also be possible to have another modifier layer where BOTH the shoulder buttons are pressed, which would give the 4 face buttons a total of 16 possible individual functions.

Also, please remember that the two analog sticks on a Xbox 360 controller are clickable like mouse buttons and the ability to map functions to those clicks would also be nice. Of course, that's assuming that those buttons aren't usable already - I haven't tried it but my experience has been that a lot of PC developers seem to forget about clicking the sticks and that functionality goes un-used .

Thanks for making such a huge variety of viable control schemes! I can't remember playing another game (series) that was as flexible as Evochron.

[Edited on 2-11-2016 by marlowe221]