Axis dependent dead zones?

ShaggyMoose · Post by **ShaggyMoose** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:38 pm

My Extreme 3D Pro seems to have an extremely twitchy Z axis, to the point where the ship is practically always trying to roll. I would like to crank up the dead zone to avoid this, but then it makes the X and Y axis too insensitive. Is there a way in the game configuration to manage this (Evochron Mercenary)?

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:29 pm

Try going to the Evochron Mercenary folder and checking line 12 of the SW.cfg. Value 100 should = "Deadzone 1" in the game options menu. 200 - "deadzone 2" and so on. You can manually type in a tighter deadzone there by putting in a value that is less than 100.

When I had an X3dpro, I was using a value around 45, and it seemed to work well. Don't fiddle with the in-game deadzone settings after saving your adjustments in the .cfg file or it will reset to the default.

Hope this helps.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:53 pm

I use the same joystick and, if you don't care to make changes to the sw.cfg file, you can set your Sensitivity to "Low" and your Deadzone to "2" by going into the game, pressing the Escape button and then using the follow-on menu to make the adjustments.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:16 am

From post: 180912, Topic: tid=12110, author=Marvin wrote: I use the same joystick and, if you don't care to make changes to the sw.cfg file, you can set your Sensitivity to "Low" and your Deadzone to "2" by going into the game, pressing the Escape button and then using the follow-on menu to make the adjustments.

Correct, but what the OP is asking is if there's a way to make the"Deadzone 1" in-game option less 'dead', hence going to line 12 of the sw.cfg and entering a value of less than 100.

As an aside, I've found that making the sensitivity as high as one can stand and the deadzone as low as possible helps a lot with counter-steering against kinetic effects of incoming weapons' fire.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:43 am

If the zone feels too dead, it also helps to install an improved wing system.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:53 am

From post: 180921, Topic: tid=12110, author=Marvin wrote: If the zone feels too dead, it also helps to install an improved wing system.

The turn-on-axis improvements might be perceived as increased input device sensitivity and a smaller deadzone, but it's not really.

Anyway that's getting farther off-topic.

If a person wants to 'dial in' their deadzone to the point where it cancels any unwanted controller input but doesn't add extra deadzone, then the method I posted is the way.

There was a thread posted by (IIRC) Vice about this... oh, let's say... a year+ ago. I'd search for it and add the link, but I don't really have the time to find it again.

ShaggyMoose · Post by **ShaggyMoose** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:40 am

I can find sw3dg\\sw.cfg in my Renegades and Legends folders, but not Mercenary? It doesn't seem to show up in the usual places at all; Steam game folder, Steam user data, user AppData etc.

EDIT: Typo.

[Edited on 1-10-2015 by ShaggyMoose]

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:52 pm

From post: 180921, Topic: tid=12110, author=Marvin wrote: If the zone feels too dead, it also helps to install an improved wing system.

The problem with a lot of controllers, especially with virtually all gamepad controllers is that the use truely inferior analog stick assemblies. Meaning they have "play" in one direction of each axis and don't return to dead center when you release them.
You and lay your finger gently on it and giggle it around and if you have a joystick monitory program running you can see the "centered" number fluctuate as much as several 1000 to one side of each of the axis - but only one side.
Example: Gampad center = 32767
Giggle it a tad (left to center) and it will drop as low as 31000 and may oy may not return near to 32767 or so but the plastic spring is tight in the opposite direction so there's no slack and returns down to 32767 from right to center.
Both my MS Xbox 360 and $80 Razer Sabertooth have this problem on both sticks in bot axis.
My Logitech F310 doesn't and returns to dead center but logitech's deadzone in the controller software is so flawed in design that you have no "fine" control like for settting exact heading and pitch and you can't come close to approximating a smooth circular movment witht he sticks in the windows calibration software.
I found the Z axis in the logitech 3D Extreme proto have similar gliggly problems returning to dead center - I'm too poor a pilot (brain wise) to fly using a all 3 axis at the same time. I'm about useless at effectively using Roll during combat type maneouvers.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:54 pm

From post: 180932, Topic: tid=12110, author=ShaggyMoose wrote:I can find sw3dg\\sw.cfg in my Renegades and Legends folders, but not Mercenary? It doesn't seem to show up in the usual places at all; Steam game folder, Steam user data, user AppData etc.

EDIT: Typo.

[Edited on 1-10-2015 by ShaggyMoose]

It's in my sw3dg\\EvochronMercenary folder - should be in yours unless win 7 or 8 or 10 has put some of the files in a user profile folder or something.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:32 pm

From post: 180933, Topic: tid=12110, author=PaulB wrote:The problem with a lot of controllers, especially with virtually all gamepad controllers is that the use truely inferior analog stick assemblies.

The problem with gamepad controllers is you use your thumbs. Thumbs were made for hitchhiking, not for steering a ship.

Rubber Chicken · Post by **Rubber Chicken** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:24 am

@ Paul B -

I found that I had to activate the profiler software and manually calibrate the X3Dpro every time I used it or it would drift. I also used the in-profiler settings to give the stick a tiny bit of deadzone which seemed to work well with the greatly reduced deadzone settings I manually edited into the sw.cfg file. Oddly, it seemed to work better than exclusively editing the .cfg.

Keep in mind that I had the profiler set to 100% sensitivity with 2%-3% deadzone and the in-game sensitivity at medium with a .cfg deadzone of 40. - I like serving hot plasma burgers on roller skates!

:P

** To manually calibrate deivces using the Logitech Profiler: (First creating and saving a profile with the game's .exe launch path is required.)
1. Open Profiler
2. Select DEVICE from the menu bar. - You may have to select the device you want to calibrate as DEFAULT.
3. Select GAME CONTROLLERS.
4. Select the device you wish to calibrate (if more than one listed).
5. HOLD CTRL+SHIFT as you click PROPERTIES. This will bring up a properties page with two tabs - Settings and Test. I have found that in order to select calibrate in the Settings tab, I had to select the test tab first. (Why, IDK.)
6. Select Calibrate and follow the instructions.
*** In order to make the settings work with EM, I also had to launch the game via the .exe I assigned to the profile I created within the Profiler.
*** Switching to the desktop whilst in-game would frequently cancel any effect the Profiler had as well, leaving me to use the purely in-game settings.

It was a bit of a pain but, when it worked as intended, the joystick was capable of great accuracy. I could align the compass and pitch to the exact position I desired with minimal input.

~~~

At Marvin - LOL

:P:P (Except when you're using the joystick thumb hat as the strafing controller.

)

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:56 am

From post: 180935, Topic: tid=12110, author=Marvin wrote:
From post: 180933, Topic: tid=12110, author=PaulB wrote:The problem with a lot of controllers, especially with virtually all gamepad controllers is that the use truely inferior analog stick assemblies.
The problem with gamepad controllers is you use your thumbs. Thumbs were made for hitchhiking, not for steering a ship.

That's not the problem - Joysticks because they are like 5 - 7 inches in length have a greater range of travel so you can make finer movements. In the case of game pads you can improve that shorter distance of travel by buying these little clip on extentions to the stick heads thus moving your thubms up about half inch and effectively give you a greater range of travel and finer movements. Not as good as a joystick but it does make a difference..
The reason I gave up on joysticks was the 4D Extreme pro was just too big and bulky to hold in my hands and use. It was "extremely" uncomfortable - lol. The size of the gamepad I love and if they had the quality analog sticks (like I understand good RC controller have) I'd be quite happy.
If I could trun back my biological clock 15 years or more so I had my eyesight and healt back I'd investigate trying to buy some quality analog replacements controls and replace the ones in my Razer Sabertooth.
But my inability to be a "good" pilot has nothing to do witht he gamepad but just my lack of ability.
I'm not saying I'm bad - else I wouldn't have made Fleet Admiral - I'm just not as good as a lot of you younger guys who probably got into flight simulaters and such in the past.
The closest I ever got was an old DOS game called Corncob 3D.
LOL - that was a game you fly a WWII Corsair and shoot down flying saucers and flying bomb and such and you jhad to take off and land on a runway. It was a rather neat game but I wasn't' that great at flying in that either.

ShaggyMoose · Post by **ShaggyMoose** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:29 am

From post: 180934, Topic: tid=12110, author=PaulB wrote: It's in my sw3dg\\EvochronMercenary folder - should be in yours unless win 7 or 8 or 10 has put some of the files in a user profile folder or something.

I don't seem to have any such folder associated with Mercenary... I checked all the usual redirects that Windows 8 likes to do, but found nothing. Anyone else have the Steam version?

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:28 pm

Did you do a search for "sw.cfg" ... in your computer (not in the forum)?

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:42 pm

From post: 180956, Topic: tid=12110, author=ShaggyMoose wrote:
From post: 180934, Topic: tid=12110, author=PaulB wrote: It's in my sw3dg\\EvochronMercenary folder - should be in yours unless win 7 or 8 or 10 has put some of the files in a user profile folder or something.
I don't seem to have any such folder associated with Mercenary... I checked all the usual redirects that Windows 8 likes to do, but found nothing. Anyone else have the Steam version?

You must have man, I mean that's how Vice designed the game structure - at least the \\EvochronMercenary folder.
It might be possible the installer let you choose a primary folder other than the default sw3dg. I have tried it.
Or if you got it on Steam I guess it might be different for the primary folder.
If you have a Desktop icon to start EM then right-click it and select Properties and see what it says for the Target: and Star in: folders.

ShaggyMoose · Post by **ShaggyMoose** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:33 am

Ok, so the game has gone and created C:\\sw3dg\\EvochronMercenary, which is just weird... I mean, you have a Steam user data folder, a Steam game folder, a system user data folder and it gets dumped in root?

Anyway, I found that changing sensitivity to "medium" seemed to help, while leaving the dead zone at 1.