Capital ship - combat problem

Angelo · Post by **Angelo** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:03 pm

Hello everyone!

Well, I`ve only 158h playing time on steam with Evochron Mecenary (bought it few days ago), and for sure dont know all tips&tricks, allthough have been reading solutions, topics etc. But still have problem with capital ships - destroy missions (especially into War Zones - SP).

1. Targeting box is in the middle of ship, so if wanna reach it must "bumping" hull - doesnt matter if - nav/eng/weap targeted.

2. Have custom weapon with huge range, but it doesnt help - Cappy is too big even for this.

3. Using mostly exodus missiles: according to description should be fine - but sadly not - there is small effect.

Havent any trouble with fighters - even more than 20 at once (ex.Pearl) isnt a problem. Only these capital ships... Was trying almost everything (int/IDS/ships/missiles, even named weapon etc.), but nothing works...

Any advice, please?

[Edited on 9-25-2014 by Angelo]

[Edited on 9-25-2014 by Angelo]

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:15 pm

Not all capital ships (even Vonari) are alike. A few go down easily and others can take a lickin' and keep on tickin' ... so it's partially the luck of the draw. We do have two or three cap-ship killers posting every now and then ... hopefully one of them will show up and give you some useful tips.

Angelo · Post by **Angelo** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:25 am

Thx. Marvin for reply.

From post: 173449, Topic: tid=11651, author=Marvin wrote:' ... so it's partially the luck of the draw..

Yeah, I`ve noticed that. There isnt one - repeatable - scheme. But this is not a point. Game is great and very immersive, and kinda sad, that fight angainst these Cappies are such "strange".

"Bumping" hull trying to reach target and next "restore saved game" due to "bumping blow" - this is (IMHO) a bit crazy and fun breaking. Choosing patrol mission in War Zone with more than 2 waypoints seems to be sometimes waste of time. Im traning mostly after fast spy-scan, when can save profile - anyway this is not "know-how" drill - but random event. Luckily these missions are optional and can fly through entire system hunting wings of fighters without mission and "unreachable cappy". Though, not sure if this way I increas my military rank - but can always pick up some rescue missions - better than nothing:-).

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:48 am

From post: 173453, Topic: tid=11651, author=Angelo wrote:Thx. Marvin for reply.

From post: 173449, Topic: tid=11651, author=Marvin wrote:' ... so it's partially the luck of the draw..
Yeah, I`ve noticed that. There isnt one - repeatable - scheme. But this is not a point. Game is great and very immersive, and kinda sad, that fight angainst these Cappies are such "strange".

"Bumping" hull trying to reach target and next "restore saved game" due to "bumping blow" - this is (IMHO) a bit crazy and fun breaking. Choosing patrol mission in War Zone with more than 2 waypoints seems to be sometimes waste of time. Im traning mostly after fast spy-scan, when can save profile - anyway this is not "know-how" drill - but random event. Luckily these missions are optional and can fly through entire system hunting wings of fighters without mission and "unreachable cappy". Though, not sure if this way I increas my military rank - but can always pick up some rescue missions - better than nothing:-).

I'm not sure it will help you but it might, I think I tried some with mixed results at times concerning the multi-waypoint missions. I'm sure the old-timers will have different ideas but this is how I progressed from 0 to Commander in Talison Conflict.
(1) I used a Mammoth for at least the 1st half or more of my progress. And I had Shield 10, Wings 13, Engine 5, 8 equip slots, 8 missiles slots (mostly using Exodus when I could get them), 4 Crew (Weapons officer really helps improve guns), so that only leaves assm for 25 CMs.
(2) I built a Trade Station in TC and sometimes (particular on multi-waypoint) I would try hiring Civilian Ships as a fleet (2 - 5) trying to get other mammoths, Starmasters, but whatever I could find (and only Green Friendly ships). You can't hire military ships. BTW, I did all this in SP, not MP, because of my old lower power laptop and my lousy Verizon mobile wireless internet. Sometimes I didn't bother trying a Fleet and just did the contracts myself.
(3) I always quick save before accepting a contract and if I fail I don't hesitate to re-launch and try the contract again, especially since if you fail one and accept that then you are going to loose Loyalty with your Crew. There were times when I had to jump back to the station to get repairs and/or missiles and then head back to the waypoint. Also I had a Deploy Constructor in an equip slot because at times I would lose track of some of the hostiles and I'd have to deploy a Sensor to find some in the sector so I could finish the waypoint.
(4) I only tried 1 or 2 Spy contracts and I found my Stealth Generator rather useless due to energy drain so my best lusk was using 3 - 4 Stealth thingies in missile slots (and I think use heading 180 to approach the waypoint from behind the Vonari C) and firing one Stealth as I approached and got close underneath, then firing the others as needed until I got the Accomplished message. Then get the heck out. Now on one I took a Fulcrum Torp with me and after the Mission Accomplished I let loose the FT and beat it fast and destroped the Vonari C (and whatever else might have been close). That felt good.
(5) I'm sad to say I have absolutely not been able to complete a Defend or Escort CAP ship mission in TC in SP by myself.
Once the CAP ship was destroyed almost as soon as I got on the scene. Other times the CAP ship got destroyed before I could take out the Hostiles and the AI military ships that were on the scene seemed pretty useless. I can't recall if I tried to take a Civvie Fleet one one of the missions or not but if I did it didn't help. Maybe I just don't know the secret or am just a lousy combat pilot, although I don't think I am dog-doo-doo or I wouldn't have made Expert and Commander ratings.

Now I did do an Excort Contract in MP in TC with Caleb.
He did most of the work and took out the Vonari C and I managed to kill off a few of the Hostiles and the contract was successful. How he did it I don't know cause I was too busy just trying to kill off hostiles attacking the CAP ship. I know he was using Excals, while I had gone in with a load of Exodus.

I hope this will be a little help on some things to consider or try.

Also, I don't think I was ever able to get close enough to a Vonari C for my guns to actually hit it. It seemed I just ran into the ships Shields. I tried approaching from the rear. I don't know how to can get close enough to do anything with Guns.
if I can ever find a Vonari C by itself I may try a load of Rage missiles to see if I can take out it's weapons and then take my time trying to figure out how to attack it with Guns.
I'm more of a Trader/Mercenari than a Combat Pilot but I would like to be able to handle CAP ships in TC.
Odd thing is the Defend/Escort missions I've done in converying Olympus, Cerulean, Atlas, Orion, and Sirius I haven't really had much trouble with - but the Vonari in the WZs are a different story.

[Edited on 9-26-2014 by PaulB]

Angelo · Post by **Angelo** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:41 am

From post: 173454, Topic: tid=11651, author=PaulB wrote:
I hope this will be a little help on some things to consider or try.

Hi PaulB and many Thx. for clue.

I`ve just arrived to Talison WZ - which You mention about (havent been there earlier - was fighting only in Sierra) - and found exactly what I need and wanted - missions without Cappies:-). Looks like Sierra is much more demanding - every combat mission has hostile Cappy.

1. About Escort - without hostile capital is not so hard - excalibur missiles are useful, and sometimes small jump as well. Thats my tactic - attacking only this, what is close by escorted ship, not everything - let them run away, and take next target - means - more on You = bigger chance that escorted ship will be ok. If something is on the other side of our cappy - small jump (fast reposition) etc. But be ready when mission is done - all allies are gone and all hostiles targeting You - but now is fun - You can save and fight:-).

2.About stealth - didnt try it yet, and flying alone - cant take poor rookies stright to the death:-). I spy with IDS/using thruster as hell - ignoring ships - spinning around cappy and watching missiles. Just noticed that it must be done really fast in Talison WZ, because allies can destroy ship within 2 minutes.

BTW - also have Mammoth, but wings 6/shield 9/ and engine 8 - i like strong thruster - often using reverse and prefer close combat - less missiles, and enemies turning in front of me, not behind.

Best regards

_-Caleb-_ · Post by **_-Caleb-_** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:17 am

Hola Angelo.

I've recorded a video time ago with a little tips for destroy a cap ship. When have 1 shield in red, rock & roll!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJSzitDCWJs

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:45 pm

Particle cannon only and never fired a missile. It must've been the music.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:25 am

I have figured out some time ago how to consistently kill (non vonari) capital ships. I will try to explain, but it will require some exercise (sometimes I screw up myself).

First of all, you should know that you will need beam weapons to bring down the shields. Beam weapons only hit when the target circle is in range.
When you target subsystems of the cap ship, the target circle will actually move towards that subsystem. Engines in the back, weapons in the front, nav somewhere inbetween.

So here's what you do.
- Start out way behind the cap ship, facing it's engines. Put all your energy into weapons (you'll need it).
- make sure you have an excalibur (not necessary, but it makes things a lot easier).
- Target the engines of the capship
- Start increasing speed towards the cap ship until you reach 2000 (that way missiles won't catch up to you, so you can almost ignore them) and aim your flight path right underneath it.
- When the engines get in beam range, start firing at it with only beams, no particles. there's going to be missiles fired at you, you can take those out with a couple of particle shots while aimed at the target circle.
- Now things are going to get hot, the ship's particle cannons will start hitting you, try to remain on target and equalize them shields.
- When the target circle is out of range, target then next subsystem and start beaming that.
- do the same for the third subsystem.
- By now, the shields should be almost depleted and you can start using particles and missiles.
- When you reach the nose, you can use your afterburner to thrust inwards and circle around the nose to deal additional damage.
- Back away and repeat until the cap ship is destroyed.

When you do this, make sure there's no fighters on your back, you'll need to be able to endure a lot of incoming shots from the cap ship.
So take out those escorts first.

A shrike or chimera is probably the best ship you can do this with, but you can do it with lighter frames too. I use an evoch-e.

Any questions? just ask.

P.S.
Vonari ships are a whole different story. Usually your allies can get it's shields down, which makes them pretty easy (like in caleb's video), but at full shields they're a real pain.
I haven't figured out a consistent way to destroy those yet, although I have been able to kill them on my own.

[Edited on 9-27-2014 by -splosives-]

Angelo · Post by **Angelo** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:14 am

From post: 173477, Topic: tid=11651, author=-splosives- wrote: Vonari ships are a whole different story. Usually your allies can get it's shields down, which makes them pretty easy (like in caleb's video), but at full shields they're a real pain.

Hey Guys, Tx. for guidance:-)

Tbh - combat/fight against non-Vonari capships is - IMHO - a bit easier because they have some semi-blind spots, but I didnt destroy many of these models - I take missions from unlawful factions only in Pearl system incidentaly, where locals hate me, and they are not worthy of reputation grind. So, I try with Vonari, but more than 10 times i got stuck alone at last waypoint, fighting against full shielded cappy - allies were destroyed before I`ve arrived etc. (true -when navy taking off those rocky shields- is much better) . But there is the tip of the iceberg - these missions if You count rockets or fleet (I didnt use this way yet) are too expensive - comparing to final reward - must be great in Multiplayer for sure. So far - Talison without cappies seems - imho - the best for solo. Anyway - I will try some heavier milit.frames soon...:-)

Best regards

[Edited on 9-28-2014 by Angelo]

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:42 pm

If you don't want to spend too much money on missiles, you can get an excalibur pack, like I mentioned before. These recharge after a while, so you only have to buy them once.

Iron man · Post by **Iron man** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:28 am

I Posted something about the weak point on the nose of Capital Vonari ship a long time ago into another topic or it was on steam topic. I made a video of it for explain how I'm doing.

Attack him front because nobody are afraid of this big monster. Speed up fast for reach as soon as possible the nose of the Capital Ship for avoid a maximum the missil and the fire.
Second whenm you are on the nose stay glue on it the only way is leave a small amount of speed like 500. As Splosive said the Beam are a obligation for shoot down the shield of this beast. When the shield down only spawn your particule on the frame. And ..... That it :s

Hope that can help.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:29 pm

From post: 173531, Topic: tid=11651, author=Iron man wrote:I Posted something about the weak point on the nose of Capital Vonari ship a long time ago into another topic or it was on steam topic. I made a video of it for explain how I'm doing.

Attack him front because nobody are afraid of this big monster. Speed up fast for reach as soon as possible the nose of the Capital Ship for avoid a maximum the missil and the fire.
Second whenm you are on the nose stay glue on it the only way is leave a small amount of speed like 500. As Splosive said the Beam are a obligation for shoot down the shield of this beast. When the shield down only spawn your particule on the frame. And ..... That it :s

Hope that can help.

That's a nice find, was this before or after the patch where cap ships were made tougher?

MiaZ · Post by **MiaZ** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:54 pm

From post: 173531, Topic: tid=11651, author=Iron man wrote:I Posted something about the weak point on the nose of Capital Vonari ship a long time ago into another topic or it was on steam topic. I made a video of it for explain how I'm doing.

Attack him front because nobody are afraid of this big monster. Speed up fast for reach as soon as possible the nose of the Capital Ship for avoid a maximum the missil and the fire.
Second whenm you are on the nose stay glue on it the only way is leave a small amount of speed like 500. As Splosive said the Beam are a obligation for shoot down the shield of this beast. When the shield down only spawn your particule on the frame. And ..... That it :s

Hope that can help.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cQg1_H_KN1c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

yeah this is how i like to do it, from the front targeting nav or weapons.
But in this video you had a lot of help. For one the navy cap is still there reducing the Von caps shields as well
as other navy fighters in the area.

Alone just yourself with the cap is harder. It is doable but quite a lot harder without any help from other greens.

[Edited on 9-29-2014 by MiaZ]

Iron man · Post by **Iron man** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:31 pm

*Splosive : i took this video yesterday so i believe its still working today

* Miaz : yes you are right the vonari light fight was not focus on me so it was easy go on it. Basically its better take down everyone first before start the beast.

Precision : DO NOT touch one of the fourth spike of the monster in front or it result a quick instant death of your frame.....

About more precision i havent touched the game over 1 months so basically you see in the video its pretty easy to do.

That was working on the capital civil ship as well but it seems it has been fixt or i can't find the belly of the shark anymore