ok, I'm about fed up with this

[comedian]

Since this is my first post, hello. I bought this game off steam a week ago after reading a review of it a couple months prior to that. To preface what I'm about to say, I really want to like this game. However, it seems to fight me at every turn despite that effort.

First, the AI seems to be designed with the soul purpose of frustrating the player. If you're present the AI will stop whatever it is doing, ignore all other ships (even the ones that do engage them), mission priority (like engaging the capitol ship ship the're supposed to be attacking), self preservation (like attacking the player in a friendly port where there is no chance of surviving short of fleeing) and pursue the player until one of the two is dead. Seriously, why does enemy AI treat me like I'm the single named target of a jihad?

They also seem to be allowed to cheat in order to ruthlessly missile spam me. Every time I jump to a nav point with hostiles they're already facing me, locked on, and letting loose a salvo before I've even come out of the jump. They also seem to be going backwards at full speed since they then turn and follow me after I pass by without suffering any of the effects of inertia. After that I'm forced to try and circle just out of gunnery range and take them out one at a time while dodging the never ending missile salvos.

Friendly AI, on the other hand, is completely docile by comparison. If they are present for a fight all they seem to do is follow the hostiles pursuing me only to watch as i get gunned down or vulture my kill once I've taken a ship down to about 20 or 30% health.

Why are the first few missions so difficult? I spent no less than six hours (an extremely conservative estimate) just trying to beat that stupid IMG race. And to accomplish that i had to buy a new ship and then re-buy my old one because the station i was at refused to store it (apparently my money is no good there). Even after purchasing a ship more suitable to racing I still had to spend hours getting rammed out of the track by an opponent who apparently doesn't have to cope with inertia effects. All for the hefty sum of 23k or so (which barely covered fuel expenses, much the loss i took on the ship). At this point I'm questioning whether or not the quest line (or the game) is even worth playing, given that every mission only serves to anger me more than the last.

At first I thought there was some fundamental aspect of ship control that had eluded me and was making the game harder than it should be. Though, the more and more I read, the less likely that seems to get. However, in the many hours of scouring the internet for a method to properly play this game, I discovered that the current version of the game is much harder then it was previously. So, is there a mod/patch that changes all (or even some) of what I've mentioned here? Because, barring some significant change in gameplay, I'm about to give up and uninstall. Thanks in advance to any who take the time to read and reply.

[Marvin]

At first I thought there was some fundamental aspect of ship control that had eluded me and was making the game harder than it should be.

As my Home Room teacher once said prior to us taking the SAT: Your first thought is usually the correct one.

[msimmons]

At first I thought there was some fundamental aspect of ship control that had eluded me and was making the game harder than it should be.

As my Home Room teacher once said prior to us taking the SAT: Your first thought is usually the correct one.

Any suggestions as to what it might be? I seem to be suffering from the same issues. I came across this thread that had two videos but they seem to no longer exist:
http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8655

[Marvin]

New videos are in the works. Until then, peruse the following list for topics which might help:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8676

[comedian]

At first I thought there was some fundamental aspect of ship control that had eluded me and was making the game harder than it should be.

As my Home Room teacher once said prior to us taking the SAT: Your first thought is usually the correct one.

If you can tell me what that fundamental aspect of successful piloting is, I'd be grateful. As it is I'm struggling to find out what tactic I'm failing to apply from reading through the various player guides.

[Marvin]

Okay, start out by learning the basics of flying with and without inertial engaged. If your problem is with combat, take a trip to Cerulean, buy a Deploy Constructor, deploy a sensor array, and pick on one red dot at a time. If you find that you're having trouble jumping to where a single red dot shows up in the array, then read the following tutorial:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8676

Afterward, once you can navigate within a sector, take on a few Reds, one at a time. Then, when you feel you're ready, save the game* and take a patrol contract ... single waypoint. While in Cerulean (not the war zone).

* In fact, save often, using Alt F9. Keep in mind that you cannot save during a contract ... only before accepting or after completing one.

[Vice]

In addition to the previous recommendations, here are some other resources.

While some of this information is a few years old now and a few points aren't relevant any more (or at least need modification under the new performance and physics parameters of the newer game), many of the concepts and tactics are still pretty relevant in Evochron Mercenary and may help give you the information needed to develop your skillset in combat/piloting:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegen ... de.htm#300
(click refresh after the images load to reset the page to the advanced combat tactics sections)

Basics of physics in space and other information (which you may have already read): http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... erse.htm#9

Also, the race is one of the most useful ways to gauge how good you are at controlling your ship. Until you can learn to keep your ship within the race course at higher speeds, you've still got some work to do in learning to control thrusters, gauge momentum, and compensate for drift. It's a good step to practice (forget winning it at first, just focus on learning to fly faster and faster through the pathway). Once you've got directional control practiced, then work on drift control/angular momentum to learn to attack while flying sideways and backwards.

[Marvin]

And, if you get frustrated, just blow up the Navy pilot. You'll feel a lot better afterward ... even if you do lose the race.

[Capt_Caveman]

join us in multiplayer
there is alot of friendly help available, just ask.
you will learn alot faster there

[Marvin]

What Cronic says is true. Keep in mind, though, that some pilots are still hunting down a few remaining bugs and might not be able to assist ... except with answers to questions.

[msimmons]

In addition to the previous recommendations, here are some other resources.

While some of this information is a few years old now and a few points aren't relevant any more (or at least need modification under the new performance and physics parameters of the newer game), many of the concepts and tactics are still pretty relevant in Evochron Mercenary and may help give you the information needed to develop your skillset in combat/piloting:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegen ... de.htm#300
(click refresh after the images load to reset the page to the advanced combat tactics sections)

Basics of physics in space and other information (which you may have already read): http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmerce ... erse.htm#9

Also, the race is one of the most useful ways to gauge how good you are at controlling your ship. Until you can learn to keep your ship within the race course at higher speeds, you've still got some work to do in learning to control thrusters, gauge momentum, and compensate for drift. It's a good step to practice (forget winning it at first, just focus on learning to fly faster and faster through the pathway). Once you've got directional control practiced, then work on drift control/angular momentum to learn to attack while flying sideways and backwards.

Great post! Thanks

[comedian]

Thanks everyone for the responses and links, though it looks like I'm going to spend more time reading than playing at this point. In reading through this I'm not seeing any way to change the AI behavior/tactics, which is disappointing.

Also, the race is one of the most useful ways to gauge how good you are at controlling your ship. Until you can learn to keep your ship within the race course at higher speeds, you've still got some work to do in learning to control thrusters, gauge momentum, and compensate for drift. It's a good step to practice (forget winning it at first, just focus on learning to fly faster and faster through the pathway). Once you've got directional control practiced, then work on drift control/angular momentum to learn to attack while flying sideways and backwards.

It didn't feel useful, it felt like a needlessly harsh introduction to a portion of the game that I'll likely avoid from now on due to how frustrating it was upon my initial exposure. While I can understand the value of giving the player a challenge it seems silly to the make the second mission that difficult, doubly so when the quest line can't advance until you beat it.

[Edited on 1-8-2013 by comedian]

[-splosives-]

It didn't feel useful, it felt like a needlessly harsh introduction to a portion of the game that I'll likely avoid from now on due to how frustrating it was upon my initial exposure. While I can understand the value of giving the player a challenge it seems silly to the make the second mission that difficult, doubly so when the quest line can't advance until you beat it.

[Edited on 1-8-2013 by comedian]

It is very useful if you want to be a great evochron pilot.
Ship control is the first step to success.

You can't fight if you can't control your ship.

Maybe it's a bit early in the quest line, but then again, the quests are entirely optional.

[Vice]

It didn't feel useful, it felt like a needlessly harsh introduction to a portion of the game that I'll likely avoid from now on due to how frustrating it was upon my initial exposure. While I can understand the value of giving the player a challenge it seems silly to the make the second mission that difficult, doubly so when the quest line can't advance until you beat it.

While step #2 may seem like a huge leap at first, I suspect you'll soon find it pretty simple once you get the basics of ship control down. Here are some ideas on what you might be doing and what you might want to try:

- Are you pointing the nose of your ship where you want to go through the race course? If so, don't. That's employing an old style arcade flight mechanism that doesn't work very well in this game. You must lead the nose of your ship ahead of the turn to where you want to go once your speed starts to get above around 700-900 and depending on the weight/thruster power of the ship you are flying. The turns in the racecourse are designed to be just sharp enough to require some lead-nose course correction at the required speeds. Not a lot is required, but similar in form and approach to how you would flare an airplane on landing. Once you get the basic angle and speed range learned, you'll find it's pretty easy to duplicate on successive turns.

- Keep the control management simpler by focusing on only one primary axis of adjustment. Do this by rolling your ship so that every turn can be navigated with pitch only. Avoid trying to mix and match yaw and pitch until you build your skill level further. Just roll left/right as a turn is approaching so that your course correction involves only having to pitch up or down. Once you get that down, you can work on applying the same concept to yawing left/right. Then later combining them so you can do either or both when needed.

- Are you using IDS X2? If not, activate it (numpad 9), then just manage your throttle with the wider range of control and don't use the afterburner for a while. Learn the right speed range at around 1200 to achieve the sliding turns needed for the ship you are flying.

- Are you using manual thruster control? If not, be sure to practice using that for times when your drift may be too much and you need to counteract the momentum to stay within the course.

- Until you get better at drift, slow down for turns. Keep your speed at or above 1200 for the straights, then bring it down well in advance of a turn to around 700-800 so you don't have to do much drift management. Then quickly speed up again as you come out of the turn. Gradually work your way into learning drift control.

Difficulty is pretty subjective, some players think it's easy, others hard, many in the middle. But the speed used by the AI at least lines up with the kind of speeds you'll need to practice at to learn the basics of ship control at mid range pace. The race is pretty static in its challenge to meet that requirement. Any easier and you won't be learning/practicing what you need to in order to manage your ship. Any more difficult and it'll exceed what you need to learn at that stage.

In terms of ship configurations and skill, AI behavior/tactics does scale a bit based on location, one example being if you want some easier targets, Olympus and Talison are pretty good for civilian space while the Talison WZ is easier for military missions. The most challenging AI are located in systems like Pearl and Sierra. So avoid those locations until you are ready.

[Edited on 1-8-2013 by Vice]

[Sl1f3r]

Hi comedian. I'm sorry to hear about your frustration, but I assure you that we have all been been there. If you still struggle, and would like a more interactive learning experience, you are more than welcome to join MP servers where there are always someone willing to help. I am also hosting a sort of "university" (link in my signature) where i will teach any and all pilots what i can in-game with practical examples and exercises. I would like for you to join my classes if you want/can, as my main goal is to help players that are struggling to get into this game so that they can realise just how amazing this game really is after you get past the frustrations. The classes i have planned for basic combat might also help you in the races as some of the techniques i will explain in the combat classes are almost the same techniques I use in the Races.

[comedian]

To clarify a bit, I'm aware of and understand the subtleties of controlling a ship given the physics involved. Keeping in the track while going around 1200 through the straights wasn't a problem, it was getting rammed off the track by my opponent whose path is not altered if i try the same trick (does he suffer from inertia effects the same way the player does? because it doesn't look like it when i watched him go through the track). Either way, I beat it, it just seems needlessly harsh to make the learning curve that steep on the second mission.

Also my problems with the AI aren't that it's necessarily challenging (I'm actually decent in combat or, at least better than I am at racing), but that it's so singlemindedly focused on the player at all times, regardless of mission or simple common sense.

[comedian]

Hi comedian. I'm sorry to hear about your frustration, but I assure you that we have all been been there. If you still struggle, and would like a more interactive learning experience, you are more than welcome to join MP servers where there are always someone willing to help. I am also hosting a sort of "university" (link in my signature) where i will teach any and all pilots what i can in-game with practical examples and exercises. I would like for you to join my classes if you want/can, as my main goal is to help players that are struggling to get into this game so that they can realise just how amazing this game really is after you get past the frustrations. The classes i have planned for basic combat might also help you in the races as some of the techniques i will explain in the combat classes are almost the same techniques I use in the Races.

Thanks for the offer, but online mp is gonna be a no-go for me. My internet can't do online gaming I'm afraid.

[Sl1f3r]

Sorry to hear man. My internet here isn't the best either, sitting with a 2mb line (bleh), but luckily i havent had any issues with Evochron yet.

[Maarschalk]

To clarify a bit, I'm aware of and understand the subtleties of controlling a ship given the physics involved. Keeping in the track while going around 1200 through the straights wasn't a problem, it was getting rammed off the track by my opponent whose path is not altered if i try the same trick (does he suffer from inertia effects the same way the player does? because it doesn't look like it when i watched him go through the track). Either way, I beat it, it just seems needlessly harsh to make the learning curve that steep on the second mission.

Also my problems with the AI aren't that it's necessarily challenging (I'm actually decent in combat or, at least better than I am at racing), but that it's so singlemindedly focused on the player at all times, regardless of mission or simple common sense.

Yes, the AI experience the same effects in a Race, you can even bump him out of the track depending on the kind of ship your flying and he is flying and where he is in the turn and which direction he is drifting in. The AI is ussualy flying a military faster ship(You ussualy fly against a Navy Pilot). In the beginning I thought it was hard to till I learned to control my ship. Now even in the Expansion I still find it easy.

In the beginning it is good not to pay attention to the pliot you are flying against, because it is difficult enough to concentrate on
control of your own ship! You can practice some timed races (not against another pilot) in a save system as part of contracts they are some times offered. Once you can beat the timer then try the quest race!.....

[comedian]

Now I'm having some kind of technical issue. My afterburners and primary weapon constantly get stuck in the on position until i alt tab out of the game. I think it's connected to either doing both at the same time or changing targets. Right mow I'm walking away before I put my forehead through my monitor.

[Maarschalk]

Now I'm having some kind of technical issue. My afterburners and primary weapon constantly get stuck in the on position until i alt tab out of the game. I think it's connected to either doing both at the same time or changing targets. Right mow I'm walking away before I put my forehead through my monitor.

Are you using a Joystick and if so what type?
You might have conflict of Keyboard Keys assignment.

Or/and if your Keyboard is oLd and you had coffee or other stuff spilled on it at one time the Key membrane under neat can get stuck!...

Also what are your system specks?

[comedian]

Joystick is a logitech g940. My system is (as far as i can recall without looking up the exact stuff):

asus p8z77-I delux
intel 3750k
xfx 7850
gskill sniper 2x8gigs
samsung 740 (i think) 250gig ssd

[Maarschalk]

Joystick is a logitech g940. My system is (as far as i can recall without looking up the exact stuff):

asus p8z77-I delux
intel 3750k
xfx 7850
gskill sniper 2x8gigs
samsung 740 (i think) 250gig ssd

Make sure you do not have conflict of Key assignments on your Joystick, Keyboard and Mouse!....

[Marvin]

The AI won't always glom on to you ... unless you're the only pilot attacking them. Which is most of the time. In SP, you can hire a flight of pilots to help you out ... then take a contract and step away while your wingmen do all the work. If you're far enough away, you can watch the fireworks and enjoy the battle in relative safety.

[DennyMala]

Keep in mind that in SP you're the only scope of the game. It is understandable that enemy will be after you and that friendly are just that.... friendly, not alied.

You're the sole player around there, while in MP the AI have lots of things to care for.... believe me....