Fusion vs Fusion

PaulD · Post by **PaulD** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:03 am

Hi, this is my first post so I hop you don't mind if I ask a question or two?

I've been playing for a couple of weeks or so now and I've got to the point where I can buy any civ or military ship and any equipment as long as I can find it. Most seems pretty self-explanatory, but I'm really struggling to understand the weapons choices or the weapons lab.

For example, although its one of the lower cannons, the IceSpear seems to be better for frantic combat situations than the much more powerful expensive upgrades. Am I missing something? Why would there be more expensive and apparently more powerful cannons if they don't work any better, or in some cases it seems, worse?

I get that some cannons trade range and energy use for firepower, but they don't seem to do more damage when they hit, or at least nowhere near enough more to justify the trade-offs.

I've done some experimentation in the weapons lab, but as the standard weapons don't seem logical, I can't work out what settings I need to choose. Ideally I would like something like an IceSpear but with more range traded against a little less yield or slightly slower firing rate, but although I can tweak the settings to get more range I can't make sense of the affect of the other settings.

I'm really enjoying this great game, but these weapons aspect have me a little frustrated. Any thoughts/help etc. understanding this would be much appreciated thanks,

Paul

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:33 am

Hi and welcome.

I wouldn't consider me an expert, but I do have
a few flight hours under my belt.

You need to get your enemies shields
down before your guns do any real damage.
That can be done using lasers and/or a missile
doing the job.

The impact of high yield guns are better
but it's harder to hit eith them since range
normally are shorter. A change of ship might
solve that so you get higher agility and can
get in closer without taking to much damage.
A gun with kinetic effect are hard to defend
against since you get slapped around and it's
hard to return fire.

Some pilots use a Civ Frame with a crew and
use that for fighting as well with really good
results.

The best way to study different weapons
is to have someone shooting at you so you'll
notice the impact it has.

Hope this helps a bit.
/SeeJay

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:08 am

Welcome. Indeed the Flarebeam and the Icespear cannons are also very appreciated in PVP because of their long range, a very fast firing rate and low energy . The more powerful particle cannons have a the highest yield, but are pretty useless because of their short range, high consuming power, very low firing rate.

The Maxim-R is the only particle cannon which can compete with the Flarebeam and the Icespear in term of range. You will find out that Maxim-R is the most efficient cannon against the Vonari. its only flaw it's a lower firing rate.

But now with the Weapon Lab you can craft a high range weapon with a still fast firing rate, low energy and a higher yield.

[Edited on 12-27-2012 by Munshine]

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:14 am

If you need a new missile, better call SplosivesCorp!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXjniQpbtQ

oni14128 · Post by **oni14128** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:15 pm

From post: 153331, Topic: tid=10246, author=-splosives- wrote:If you need a new missile, better call SplosivesCorp!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXjniQpbtQ

Yes SplosivesCorp. When it absolutely has to be blown up on time.

-splosives- · Post by **-splosives-** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:56 pm

We make any custom weapons actually. Cannons, beams and missiles.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:01 pm

From post: 153327, Topic: tid=10246, author=SeeJay wrote:A gun with kinetic effect are hard to defend
against since you get slapped around and it's
hard to return fire.

I can attest to that. I was forced to upgrade my Avenger to a slightly heavier ship ... else knife-fighting was nearly impossible.

zex · Post by **zex** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:22 pm

From post: 153346, Topic: tid=10246, author=oni14128 wrote:
From post: 153331, Topic: tid=10246, author=-splosives- wrote:If you need a new missile, better call SplosivesCorp!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXjniQpbtQ
Yes SplosivesCorp. When it absolutely has to be blown up on time.

They use advanced technology you probably wouldn't understand

apo Spartacus · Post by **apo Spartacus** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Has anyone created a decent particle cannon/beam in the weapon lab yet? I'm finding the interface a little overwhelming! I've made a beam and particle weapon by just moving every slider over to the right, but I think I'm missing out on something.

EN4CER · Post by **EN4CER** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:24 am

From post: 153504, Topic: tid=10246, author=apo Spartacus wrote:Has anyone created a decent particle cannon/beam in the weapon lab yet? I'm finding the interface a little overwhelming! I've made a beam and particle weapon by just moving every slider over to the right, but I think I'm missing out on something.

I came to the thread looking for that answer as well. Using the search feature I found a great description of how one of the sliders works.

Heatsink Slider in Weapon Lab - This option merely exists to let you manually select and adjust the firing rate of the particle cannon you are designing. More heatsinks provide a faster firing rate because the weapon doesn't have to cool off as much between shots. If you want your cannon to fire slower so as to use less energy, lower the heatsinks. If you want it to fire faster, which will use more energy, add heatsinks.

Some people want to put as much damage on target in as short amount of time as possible. They are often excellent shots and can keep their cannon on target during kinetic impact effects from incoming gunfire.

Others want to fire slower so as to use less energy, particularly if they are thrown off-target... there missed shots will be fewer, resulting in less wasted energy. This also gives more energy to their beam cannon, allowing it to have more for dropping shields down on a target when used simultaneously. Particle cannons are energy eaters (especially high yield designs), so it's a way to taper that and balance it with other weapons/systems.

Most players will probably indeed always want the fastest firing particle cannon possible. But the option to slow it down is at least available for players (however few they may be) who want to slow their weapon down for energy conservation and yield balancing between beam and particle, depending on their play style and preferences.

[Edited on 12-29-2012 by EN4CER]

PaulD · Post by **PaulD** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:48 am

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to experiment with the weapons lab to find a configuration that suits my style of combat.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:18 pm

Here is how it works:

First Slider, Emitter Output:
1. Increases Yield, Damage output
2. Increases amount of Heat/Second output
3. Increases amount of Energy/Second usage
4. Does not affect Firing Range, Distance
5. Lowers Rate of Fire of Rounds Per Minutes of Cycles

Second Slider, Actuator Speed:
1. Lowers Yield, Damage output
2. Increases amount of Heat/Second output
3. Does not affect amount of Energy/Second usage
4. Does not affect Firing Range, Distance
5. Increases Rate of Fire of Rounds Per Minutes of Cycles

Third Slider, Capacitor Reserve:
1. Increases Yield, Damage output
2. Increases amount of Heat/Second output
3. Increases amount of Energy/Second usage
4. Increases Firing Range, Distance
5. Lowers Rate of Fire of Rounds Per Minutes of Cycles

Fourth Slider, Heat Sinks:
1. Increases Yield, Damage output
2. Lowers amount of Heat/Second output
3. Does not affect amount of Energy/Second usage
4. Does not affect Firing Range, Distance
5. Increases Rate of Fire of Rounds Per Minutes of Cycles

........

[Edited on 12-29-2012 by Maarschalk]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:47 pm

Here are more extensive tables with all the combinations and results of the maximum and minimum slider settings for the Cannons and Beam Weapons!
Hope this is use full!. If so, feel free to add it to your informational websites.

Munshine · Post by **Munshine** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:07 pm

Hurrah !

hank · Post by **hank** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:04 pm

Wow!! Awesome stuff.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:15 pm

Is that in Dave's manual? 'Cause it should be. (But, if it is, I must've overlooked it. Sorry.)

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:02 am

From post: 153896, Topic: tid=10246, author=Marvin wrote: Is that in Dave's manual? 'Cause it should be. (But, if it is, I must've overlooked it. Sorry.)

No, it is not there. I made the tables and do not know how to post it there or that that is something DaveK has to do...

ct6crazycanuck · Post by **ct6crazycanuck** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:08 am

From my experience you really just have to toy around with the bars until you see some stats that you like.

doing that I managed to create a fusion class cannon that can shred a civ class ship from 8 Kilometers with pretty much no energy usage at even power distribution, still need to make a beam weapon though, they just chew right through my power reserves right now.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:46 am

From post: 153902, Topic: tid=10246, author=ct6crazycanuck wrote:From my experience you really just have to toy around with the bars until you see some stats that you like.

doing that I managed to create a fusion class cannon that can shred a civ class ship from 8 Kilometers with pretty much no energy usage at even power distribution, still need to make a beam weapon though, they just chew right through my power reserves right now.

You mean 800 meters, I think the weapons ranges are in meters not kilometers!.....LOL!....

:P

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:57 am

From post: 153901, Topic: tid=10246, author=Maarschalk wrote:I made the tables and do not know how to post it there or that that is something DaveK has to do...

Dave needs to do it. Send him a U2U in case he's been taking a nap.

ct6crazycanuck · Post by **ct6crazycanuck** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:58 am

From post: 153904, Topic: tid=10246, author=Maarschalk wrote:You mean 800 meters, I think the weapons ranges are in meters not kilometers!.....LOL!....:P

Technically 8k since distances are in decameters, but I believe that is only explicitly stated in the downloadable handbook. For reasons of keeping distance numbers managable if i'm not mistaken.

I don't think that applies to planet altitudes though.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:53 pm

From post: 153923, Topic: tid=10246, author=ct6crazycanuck wrote:
From post: 153904, Topic: tid=10246, author=Maarschalk wrote:You mean 800 meters, I think the weapons ranges are in meters not kilometers!.....LOL!....:P
Technically 8k since distances are in decameters, but I believe that is only explicitly stated in the downloadable handbook. For reasons of keeping distance numbers managable if i'm not mistaken.

I don't think that applies to planet altitudes though.

And I do not think it aplies to Weapon Range either!
Next time when you do a planet side combat mission check your distances between the planet and your weapons range! 8 Kilometers is quite a distance for cannons to shoot at a small ship. You would hardly be able to see a ship at 8 Kilometers....

[Edited on 1-1-2013 by Maarschalk]

ct6crazycanuck · Post by **ct6crazycanuck** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:32 am

From post: 153939, Topic: tid=10246, author=Maarschalk wrote:
From post: 153923, Topic: tid=10246, author=ct6crazycanuck wrote:
From post: 153904, Topic: tid=10246, author=Maarschalk wrote:You mean 800 meters, I think the weapons ranges are in meters not kilometers!.....LOL!....:P
Technically 8k since distances are in decameters, but I believe that is only explicitly stated in the downloadable handbook. For reasons of keeping distance numbers managable if i'm not mistaken.

I don't think that applies to planet altitudes though.
And I do not think it aplies to Weapon Range either!
Next time when you do a planet side combat mission check your distances between the planet and your weapons range! 8 Kilometers is quite a distance for cannons to shoot at a small ship. You would hardly be able to see a ship at 8 Kilometers....

[Edited on 1-1-2013 by Maarschalk]

Going off of speed being in Metres per second and travel time taking 10X as long as it should to travel however many units match your current speed, (ex: takes 10 seconds to travel 2,000 units at 2,000 meters per second. (or 2 Kilometres per second, essentially working out to the total distance travelled in 10 seconds being 20 kilometres) with MDTS targeting activating at the same distance shown on the weapon's range in the trade console, it seems more viable (to me at least) that the cannon's range (mine at least) is 8 Kilometres.

Though you did bring up one thing that's been on my mind quite a bit recently (I get bored quite often when I'm at work). Just how big are the ships exactly? considering that they're fully visible with good detail at these (relatively) large distances. they would have to be pretty big. Like Firefly Class Transport sized at the least, especially if they're able to hold 6 people (1 player + 5 crew/passengers) as well as up 125 tonnes (are the units tonnes or just market standard amounts? like ounces of precious metals or single crates of electronic supplies) of cargo as well as a tree (how big is the tree) sized terrain walker.

I should probably make a separate topic about that...

redviking · Post by **redviking** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:08 am

Anyone know what the energy output of standard weapons are? I'm trying to figure out if my new 62 yield fusion laser uses less energy (20) than the "Fusion Laser" that I bought before the weapons lab became available. When I try to see which drains my battery faster, it's hard to tell since the tweak from 58 yield to 62 must be pretty small, energy-use wise.

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:20 am

From post: 164901, Topic: tid=10246, author=redviking wrote:Anyone know what the energy output of standard weapons are?

Isn't energy output listed in the top-center window when you cursor over the weapon listing?