Automation/Scripting

[Zule]

Okay this game is totally awesome there is no doubting that!

I do have an idea though and it is something that seems to be a growing trend in games of late and that's automation/scripting. The X series had it the last time i looked and while I don't think you should go as far as they did some form of automation/scripting would be an excellent addition to the game.

Stuff it shouldn't be able to do.

1. Anything related to combat
2. Totally automate the game
3. Do missions for you
   [/list=1]
   
   There are a few things that it should be able to do for starters.
   1. Program Nav computer
   2. Mining
   3. Turn itself off!
   4. Jump drive control
   5. Autopilot
   6. Deploy stations? Though perhaps not.
      [/list=1]
      
      Those are just some ideas. I'll say this now that DarkBasic Pro has access to LUA and that would be a good way of doing this.
      
      Also i had a go at automating the game via sendkey but that just plain wouldn't work. It got the window fine but it's either something to do with the way that DarkBasic handles keypresses or the DarkBasic programming langauge handles the window that stops it from working.
      
      I've included a poll more for my curiosity than anything else, do please use it it might be a way for Vice to gauage the reaction to the idea.
      
      Trust me, I'm not saying that the game should play itself. Part of the scripting idea would be that you could further mod your user interface for starters, just look at some of what can be done with LUA in WoW for instance.
      
      At the end of the day it's a game and you need to be able to play it yourself, but there are certain tasks that would be excellent to automate, *cough*mining*cough*.

[Zule]

Mouse macro's are dependent on scale and positions, i.e. where things are in a window. That is a... inelegant way to automate things, for instance with a good really good automation system it would be possible to create a trade route script that would help automate a trade route that could be shared with the community and in another way we can help each other out Whereas if you changed your resolution on your monitor the control would move thus screwing up your mouse macro.

Using something similar to the object based lua you could have an object for the trade station and have your ship look for the best prices in a system... just a thought though that is extreme there would be little user interaction in that.

It is, I will admit, a careful balance with scripting/automation. I am using the two as the same thing and they aren't of course, but that aside, you need to balance what is possible to be automated or scripted with making the game play itself. You don't want the game to play itself, you want it to say make the game easier/less repetitive on certain things.

The universe of EM is huge! i for one have barely touched what is possible in that universe because I spend a lot of time mining currently This is a personal choice of money making venture though. I would like to cut down how much time I actively have to press the same buttons during this process and i doubt I'm the only one.

As you can tell I have put a great deal of thought into this and am keen. hell if the LUA dll isn't Hugely expensive I'll thrown in for it!

[Zule]

Just checked and I will say i will buy a copy of the dll for Vice if he wants!

For reference:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2081

The only downside is usually licensing but that I don't know about currently.

[Marvin]

Somebody needs to check Atollski's nav tracker program.

[TGS]

I'm a bit curious. Aside from complex navigation patterns which would be awesome... what else do you need automation for?

Mining... can be done via the deployables although at this stage it's really no better than sitting there with your beam locked since you really can't go very far away from the probe without losing it.

Turn itself off? Turn what off exactly? The game ? I'm not sure that would actually serve a purpose. Any clarification would be useful.

Jump drive control... really that ties in with complex navigation patterns.

Autopilot actually ties in with Jump drive control. It's already possible and while it isn't perfect you can set any coordinates and hit autopilot and it will try to take you there. Sure it might run you out of fuel before you get there but it will most certainly try. Even jumping to get there (A change made in late EL)

Deploying stations. No, no and more no. It would serve little to no purpose to automatically go around setting up tons of stations. It might be convenient but not in a good way.

So again I ask... what automation do you need that can't already be performed? And if I am coming across hostile I apologise as that is not in anyway my intention. However I have been in the gaming world a very long time and I've seen the sort of trouble automation can bring to games especially multiplayer games or games with any sort of persistent game world.

There are some great things you can do with automation... but leave it where it belongs. On the AI side. When your client is automating itself you are essentially letting the computer play for you. And in a game like this the only way that makes even a lick of sense is in the form of an autopilot.

I'm all for feature requests... even for silly feature requests that will never actually happen. I know I've submitted a fair few of my own in that area. Unless there's something I missed this feature path would be far more trouble than it's worth.

Now scripting on the other hand is a completely different thing. I honestly think this game would benefit immensely from scripting. Especially on the server side. There's an old game I use to play called SubSpace (Now Continuum) which was a top down online MMO shooter. The server has a massive amount of things that can be changed and tweaked which can essentially turn each server into its own unique game. Evochron would be perfect for that I think.

[Zule]

I'm incorrectly using automation really, let's go with scripting for the moment.

I do like automation as I dislike repetitive tasks, i.e. mining, though it is oddly enough my preferred method of earning money. For me, being able to create a script that would jump me to a field, mine till full and then jump to station, empty out rinse and repeat would be heaven.

As i said before automation in this way is a careful balance.

I would quite like to see some scripting elements to the UI also, so you can script out the layout to what's displayed and how with a simple script without going the entire mod route of different cockpits.

I do not want the game to play itself totally, but automating simple things would be nice.

Some scripted server stuff would be nice even if it is creating a bot to refuel players who have run out type of thing

More when I'm not so tired... lol

[Atollski]

If scripting is used, I'd say use it to create missions, stories and interesting AI behaviours or environment changes. I wouldn't want to be able to run a script that sends you to an asteroid, automatically mines then returns you to a station and sells the cargo bay or the same with trade runs, it would take the fun out of the game...

[TGS]

Hmmm ok I'll pick at this because I'm actually quite intrigued with your idea's and was actually thinking about suggesting something similar awhile back in terms of the scripting.

You say you want to automate the process of mining. You realize that if you could automate the process of mining in this game you might as well have a button that simply gives you x credits per second/minute/hour right? Because that's basically what it would be. Sure your ship might fly to a astroid... mine it til full then fly back to station and sell then rinse and repeat. But think about the big picture. What you're asking for is a button that gives you money in exchange for time. So you can walk away while your ship does its thing making you money.

Now I don't know if you've read some of my other posts but if you have you'll know I'm rather passionate and one key point I have made in a few of my posts is that money in this game is really quite trivial. Primarily due to the fact that there are many ways to make it and not so many ways to spend it. At least not on a regular and consistent basis. Now what you're asking for is essentially a money button sure it may require some time but you're basically saying "I push a button and an hour later I have 500 million credits".

It's simply not good. I would love for this game to have a bunch of really expensive money sinks in the game so that the insanely rich massive money makers could actually spend their money, however there isn't. Because there isn't automating the process of making money is simply not beneficial to the game at all. Sure as some have said in the past "But it wouldn't hurt you or anyone else" it's about having a shred of integrity in the game. What I mean by that is if you give people a button that automatically performs a trade route repeatedly until you tell it to stop... people WILL use it. Because it would be silly not to. I really don't want it to end up like that personally. Maybe you do but I really don't. I just think that wouldn't be a fun game to play.

I'm incorrectly using automation really, let's go with scripting for the moment.

I do like automation as I dislike repetitive tasks, i.e. mining, though it is oddly enough my preferred method of earning money. For me, being able to create a script that would jump me to a field, mine till full and then jump to station, empty out rinse and repeat would be heaven.

As i said before automation in this way is a careful balance.

I would quite like to see some scripting elements to the UI also, so you can script out the layout to what's displayed and how with a simple script without going the entire mod route of different cockpits.

I do not want the game to play itself totally, but automating simple things would be nice.

Some scripted server stuff would be nice even if it is creating a bot to refuel players who have run out type of thing

More when I'm not so tired... lol

[Marvin]

I suspect he's thinking about the automated scripts in the X games. Where you build an empire and direct a fleet of ships to do various things. Where, when it comes to automating your own ship, it serves a real purpose ... allowing you to get a jump on the AI competition.

Automation in this game exists ... but, because the game plays differently (otherwise, why not just stay with the X games?), the automation plays differently. For example, you can deploy a mining drone that automatically does your mining for you. If you have the proper equipment. Like in X. Really.

[TGS]

Yeah I suspected that's what he meant. However in Evochron there simply is not the empire management element as seen in the X series. Largely because that game is single player and has been built with that in mind. Evochron on the other hand was, and still is built primarily as a fighter simulator. While we would all love empire elements... and Vice has made moves towards that direction with the buildable stations. There still isn't really any empire management.

Scripting would be awesome if made in a way that worked for this game. But I think people have to realize while this game has its own complexities this game is nowhere near as complex as the X series because that is not it's aim.

I suspect he's thinking about the automated scripts in the X games. Where you build an empire and direct a fleet of ships to do various things. Where, when it comes to automating your own ship, it serves a real purpose ... allowing you to get a jump on the AI competition.

Automation in this game exists ... but, because the game plays differently (otherwise, why not just stay with the X games?), the automation plays differently. For example, you can deploy a mining drone that automatically does your mining for you. If you have the proper equipment. Like in X. Really.

[Zule]

There is jus so much that can be done with the right implementation of scripting from missions, to empire management (if that is the direction Vice goes) to automation (This seems unliked) and a whole host of UI options and customisation type things. I relaly think it would be an interesting addition to the game,

Also I won't lie, I'm at my heart a programmer and anything that will combine my first loves will get more interest from me lol.

[TGS]

lol yeah well I understand where you are coming from Zule I really do. But one statement I really have to make is that games are meant to be played. Not played for you by the computer.

Though I have to admit there are occasions where I've set computer vs computer matches in games just to watch what they do haha.

[Zule]

I'm not refuting that, and let's ignore automation for a moment and concentrate on what can be done with a scripting engine other than automation, in fact forget the automation altogether.

Scripted missions
Objects that react to the player. aka Stations that say hello in various ways. Or a daft one, a station that advertises itself when you get close, lol (That could get annoying but I'm sure there are other uses of a scripted distance)
if you made a lot of game information available you could have a script that changes according to what you're doing. minimise clutter for mining, max information for fighting when a red is targeted.

And so on.

I'd like automation because I'm lazy but frankly it can be ignored for a nice reactive scripting system. Like i say ignore I said anything about automation and think of reactive environments created by players. This system would be killer on servers in particular of course.

[TGS]

Well if the server was overhauled properly and more "access" to the game's settings and features could be provided then ultimately a client-side scripting system could be made and could be very flexible because it could simply call settings from the server in a dynamic way.

This obviously is way beyond the scope of this game but certainly not the next one.

[Zule]

Well the problem as i can see it currently is that the server uses directX to network, and ofc that's a problem iirc because it's done slightly differently than normal networking and cuts out most of the control of creating your own server. Much of the work is done for you i believe with DBP built in method of networking but does mean that creating a server program in a separate language is going to be harder than it needs to be.

This is, i think, the hold up in creating a more flexible server that is more a)server friendly (The computer) and b)flexible.