Need Instructions about wingmen

[Logan Malone]

Can someone please provide COMPLETE instructions how to hire wingmen to assist on missions?

I found myself flying around space chasing down A.I. pilots near stations and use F4 (trade) and after giving them money, they just take it and go their separate way. They did NOT assist me on any missions. It's near impossible to do more complex combat missions without wingmen.

I thought they would automatically become my wingmen. I talked to some other players in multiplayer mode about this.
I lost money several times.

I have read the instructions that come with the game and there are no instructions about how to go about hiring them. Only a mention about the ability to hire them.

I searched this forum and still, only a mention about the ability to hire wingmen.

How do u hire a wingman?
How long do they stay your wingman?
Can u see wingmen health status?

I thought that in space you should be able talk to a pilot with the ship radio regardless where they are at in space
and request their assistance. Why does a player have to physically fly within 500m just to strike up a conversation?

Thanks.

[Edited on 11-7-2010 by Logan Malone]

[Ravenfeeder]

It's been a few years since I used wingmen. Going by memory, when you are close enough to use F4, don't go for a trade, there's a section there for hiring wingmen. Then there's a couple of F keys, F5 and F6, if my memory is correct. Note: You can't use wingmen in a WZ, as far as I know, in MP anyway, maybe in SP.

They'll stay as your wingmen as long as you pay them, and they aren't destroyed. It isn't a one off payment, they expect to be paid again, and again, for their efforts.

Missions without wingmen are far from impossible. All you lack is practice and knowhow.

Enjoy. And, welcome to the game, and the forum.

[PandaBear]

fly with in 1K of a green ship, then open trade. Once they open their trade you can TRY to hire them with the hire wingman on bottom right conner in the trade screen.

Some will agreed to be your wingman and some will not. Most green ship in Cil frame will happpy to be your wingman and the 1 in Mil frame will either be your wingman or turn you down.

Avoid yellow ship and red. I find it a waist of money if you try to bride them first. As for bride it work for SP. will improve their raiting with you if you try to change you rep in a sector.

[Logan Malone]

I just noticed that when I was in MP mode, I didn't have the option listed to have wingmen join me, however in SP mode, it was there.

Having said that, I feel that there is something deeply wrong with the combat even with wingmen.

The enemy AI all go after me and totally disregard my wingmen outright. I have 4 enemy ships and shoot down 2, then 3 more pop into the mostly empty sector. I give my wingmen command to defend me and they just sit there flying with smiles on their faces.

Lastly, I continually hear veterans telling us noobs to keep training combat. It's beginning to sound dull in my ears as I constantly have to do the same missions well over 15+ times.
Put yourself in a noobs shoes who has never played any of the Evochron games before for a minute. Heck, X3 wasn't even half as harsh during noob combat missions. I feel the learning curve is extremely steep, not enough instructions for combat are provided in the readme that comes with the game, and a new player can't continually bother veteran players for advice and help in MP mode.

I really want to keep at this and not outright put this game down and move on, really I do. It gets very boring when all I continue to do is reload saved games after getting blown up.
The AI seriously need tweaked/balanced to make it more friendly for new players.

I use CM and they tend to not even make a difference. Why not have a low level auto-CM unit for new players? I'm not whinning, just venting mostly because I died about 21 times today in a system that's supposed to have low-end quality enemy ships. I've upgraded my ship considerably and it doesn't appear to have made a difference at all.

[Vice]

I'll offer some advice here. First, I'd guess you're on the right track, even if it seems like persistent failure at this point. Hopefully, the 'system' you are referring to is Olympus and you are -not- taking on combat contracts yet, you're just focusing on picking off hostiles that come by one at a time. The hostile presence there is fairly moderate and their ships/weapons are pretty weak overall. Don't take combat contracts for a while, just fly around and look for hostiles. Try to pick off one at a time in combat, avoid losing speed, and try to keep your distance on passes. Don't fly directly toward your targets, fly in at diagonal angles wide enough to avoid being hit by incoming gunfire and to give yourself more time to counter missiles. Stay there until you've established an effective skillset that works for you.

If too many show up, don't stay there and fight until you're ready to do so. Get out of there and return to trying to pick off one or two at a time. Avoid sectors with higher traffic patterns (ones with stations and/or planets in them). Jump to a sector without any major docking points in it which will generally result in fewer hostile ships, less communication between them, and less of a chance of reinforcements coming in to attack you. If needed, deploy a sensor array if you have the constructor or deploy a probe and locate a lone hostile somewhere nearby to practice attacking.

The enemy AI will generally target you first, you are the designated leader and considered the primary threat. You need to plan your strategy accordingly and you can actually use this to your advantage. Use their focus against them and bait them into positions that make for easier kills by your hired wingmen. Keep the IDS off and keep drifting away from them slowly in circular patterns that continually keep bringing them into weapon range of your wingmen. Keep forcing them to pass in front of your wingmen, giving them a chance to take them out.

When it comes to missile evasion and using counter-measures, keep these tips in mind:

- You can bait hostile ships into wasting all of their missiles and running out. Just stay away from a hostile firing missiles at you, at a distance of at least 1000.

- Don't fly directly in toward hostile ships, this leaves you and your counter-measures little time to react to fast flying missiles.

- Watch the yellow inbound missile blips on the radar, turn away from them and then use counter-measures.

- Launch counter-measures early, then worry about fine tuning your tactics later on to avoid wasting them. Start launching counter-measures when the distance bar is still pretty long, then hold the counter-measure key/button down until you hear the missile explode. Work on distance timing from there.

- CM's work best when you turn away from the missile entirely and launch them behind you, putting the CM's between you and the missile. Otherwise, if you're between the missile and the CM's, you're the closest target and the CM's won't be close enough to inflict enough damage on the missile.

- Don't fly slow. It gives your enemy more time to obtain a missile lock at a longer range. They will often fire more missiles at you if you're slow and don't move around much.

- Don't fly in a straight line for very long, vary your flight path frequently to make it more difficult for your opponent(s) to obtain a missile lock.

- If you're struggling with counter-measures, just shoot down incoming missiles until you improve your abilities.

[Logan Malone]

Yes, I'm in this system. Olympus gernally has a lot more combat missions vs non-combat missions. Of the missions that are provided, most all involve fighting off 3+ enemies at the same time.

I have had more success fighting enemies at the station than during any missions. I died tiwce when near the stations and 19 times during combat missions.

One thing, a player told me to fly in an arc around the enemies. When I take off IDS, my ship flys in a straight vector and can't make a circular flight path unless I turn on IDS to correct the flight path.

When should I begin to do combat missions? My combat missions only last about 10-20 seconds at the most and I go BOOM! I'll keep trying.

[Edited on 11-8-2010 by Logan Malone]

[PandaBear]

enemy AI are set to target player first then other ship close by, so they will target you first and bypass any other ship unless they are being attack on that whatever ship was fire on them. Even then if they are close to you they will keep target you first then the other ship.

Wingman AI are not that smart, they can only be smart as you are. If you giving them the command to attack then they will if there is an enemies NEAR them.
To really made your wingman do what you want them to do then you MUST tell them to farm up and wait till the enemies are close enough before you tell them to defend you or attack enemies.

People tell you to training in combat cause you ask for combat help and so on.
You need to learn how to use your ship. ONLY you can learn it no one else can do it for you. There a post back that someone said the IGM race was imposible to pass. It only look imposible because 1 does not learn how to control their ship. In the Race we all learn how to use afterburner and when not to use.

Like wise in CB we all have to learn when to use 1 thing and when not to use another.
We all know that flying with IDS off will help in fighting that it make the enemies AI fire at 1 derection while you fly by at another. with IDS off will only help so much you all need to learn when to use afterburner and when to use revese thurst and reverse afterburner. the default button for reverse thurst is "/" and yes you can use /+TAB for reverseafterburner.

CM are just that CM. now this game are trying to be as close to real life as it can. With that in mind you need to learn when to use CM and when not to use it. Throwing CM around like a mad man will not mean it will help you. Missile are set to seak out heat. and CM only put out so much heat when launch then die out leaving no heat. IDS and after burner give out heat. Again if you launch CM while have IDS and afterburner on then it will give out more heat then the CM thurse making the missile target you rather then the CM.

The trick to use the CM is to wait for the missile to get close to you. wait till you get the red warning then launch CM, It only work if you have IDS off and not running afterburner.

again and again I seen people making the same mistake over and over again. IF you get a contract for combat mission and you use auto jump it will from time to time jump you CLOSE to the enemies and all hell broke out. If you know it will be too hard for you then why not open the nap and change the jump point a bit? like something 3k-4k from the set jump? this will give you enough time to look around and head to where you want to go.

If taking on the enemies and their missile are too hard for you then why not have them chase you firing off their missile while you have time to shoot it off or use cm on it. This can be done by you jumping into the sector and head close to the enemies then set your reverst thurst to have your ship fly backward while facing the enemies. Keep the distance 1K from the nearest enemies and keep flying backward till you feel like they had use up most of their missile then close in for the kill. either use your missile once you are close enough to have it work or dogfight out with them.

if fighting contract in 1 systerm are too hard for you then go find another systerm that are a bit easyer. Olympus prime should be a good place for you at this time. try it out there and use what you have read here to help out.



" Evochron Mercenary gives you the freedom to play the game in a variety of ways. It's freeform design lets you travel where you want and complete the activities you want. You can complete the quest offered to new mercenaries for benefits or you can focus on exploration, combat, mining, racing, trading, or a variety of other activities. You can also switch between the quest objectives and other activities when desired. To retrieve a past quest message, simply click on 'View Last Quest Message' in the news console and the last message will be displayed. It's a good idea to have a well equipped ship and enough credits to survive the quest as you'll pass through many of the most challenging areas of the game's universe."
You are free to do us you like so if 1 thing are too hard you 1 at this point then go do something a bit easyer for you till you learn how to fully controll you ship then head back and try it again.

yes in know what I am saying. I am NOT telling you to go mine I am saying if 1 combat contract on 1 systerm are too hard for you right now then go to another systerm and find an easyer combat contract till you master it. and if combat contract are still too hard with 2,3-,4 enemies then pick a fight with an AI.. fire on the yellow/green AI and start a fight with them.: D


Nothing in this game are IMPOSIBLE it only seem like it till you learn how to deal with it.

[Vice]

One thing, a player told me to fly in an arc around the enemies. When I take off IDS, my ship flys in a straight vector and can't make a circular flight path unless I turn on IDS to correct the flight path.

A very important skill to learn/master is controlling your ship with the IDS off. You'll need to learn to control your ship's maneuvering/strafe thrusters manually (along with the speed offset controls and afterburner for adjusting forward/reverse movement). When the IDS is off, you are in direct control of those thrusters, the computer won't manage them. Practice engaging your lateral and vertical thrusters with the IDS off (default A, D, Z, and X keys). This will provide the 'arc' maneuver the other player is referring to.

[Marvin]

Keep in mind that AI are skinflints when it comes to burning fuel ... ergo, they never use afterburner. So, if you push up your speed to between 1800 and 2400 (with inertial engaged), they aren't likely to follow you. Yet, your speed will still be low enough to for you to make good use of those thrusters. Just remember that, when using lateral thrusters, you must point your ship so that it'll be going sideways in the direction you want.

[Logan Malone]

I'll keep trying...that's all I can do.

Perhaps I'm over-reacting a bit, thinking that if I can't get combat mastered in Olypmus right away, that I'll never be able to explore the rest of the game planetary systems. I really bought the game for leisure purposes so I could explore the universe, do some mining, relax and take it easy. I didn't expect combat to present me with a hostile gang raping experience by 4+ ships at the same time.

Is it possible to see and experience the rest of the game if my combat skills don't improve to the likes of the veteran players? I just want to relax and have some fun and not re-experience Eve-Online hostile ganking...had 5+ years of that already.

Just my random thoughts this morning.

[Vice]

You don't really have to engage in much combat at all if you don't want to. Focus on defense in your ship's design, acquire a stealth generator to stay hidden from threats, enter stations/cities/carriers when conducting business, etc.

[PandaBear]

The beauty of this game isthat you can enjoy it for years without have to fire a shot.

[49rTbird]

Originally posted by Logan Malone
I'll keep trying...that's all I can do.

Perhaps I'm over-reacting a bit, thinking that if I can't get combat mastered in Olypmus right away, that I'll never be able to explore the rest of the game planetary systems. I really bought the game for leisure purposes so I could explore the universe, do some mining, relax and take it easy. I didn't expect combat to present me with a hostile gang raping experience by 4+ ships at the same time.

Is it possible to see and experience the rest of the game if my combat skills don't improve to the likes of the veteran players? I just want to relax and have some fun and not re-experience Eve-Online hostile ganking...had 5+ years of that already.

Just my random thoughts this morning.

Some ways to travel safer is to:

Align your ship to Zero deg and Level then right click on the gate in the Nav map that you want to use. Jump.

Turn off IDS before going through gate as this gives you more escape speed on the other side.

Jump to a position away from the gate asap if lots of reds nearby.

Repeat his till it becomes automatic.

Do the same thing to jump to and dock at a station.

[Marvin]

Also, in Mercenary, plan to use a bit of afterburner when jumping to a gate. Unlike Legends, you slow down quite a bit after coming out of a jump in Mercenary. Meaning, it takes a little longer to actually get to (and through) the gate ... so a bit of AB helps to speed up your departure from a hostile sector.

Edit:

Is it possible to see and experience the rest of the game if my combat skills don't improve to the likes of the veteran players?

Also, with Mercenary, you can deploy a shield array. Surrounded by a shield, a billion hostile ships can surround you and never even scratch your paint job.

[Edited on 11-8-2010 by Marvin]

[Logan Malone]

Originally posted by Vice
You don't really have to engage in much combat at all if you don't want to. Focus on defense in your ship's design, acquire a stealth generator to stay hidden from threats, enter stations/cities/carriers when conducting business, etc.

OK, so my Civilian Rank will increase, however my military rank will not increase much at all correct? I hate the idea of running away from a fight, but be it as it is now, it's the only recourse I have until some balancing is done.

I played earlier todayin SP mode. I died 31 times. The only saving grace keeping me from not deleting it off my hard drive completely is that it's a new game and the hope that some balancing for new players is done. Missile spam, sudden death explosion, sudden loss of navigation and weapon systems, etc. just got to me again.

I'm going out to do some mining now.

[Edited on 11-14-2010 by Logan Malone]

[Vice]

OK, so my Civilian Rank will increase, however my military rank will not increase much at all correct?

Correct, your military rank will not increase if you do not perform military missions in war zones.

When should I begin to do combat missions? My combat missions only last about 10-20 seconds at the most and I go BOOM! I'll keep trying.

Given your description of your current results, that's still a ways away before flying as a fighter pilot in military objectives. If you are only lasting 10-20 seconds in those missions, it suggests you are trying to fly in for a straight attack at low speed... which just makes you an easy target for them to destroy.

I'd still suggest reviewing those points I (and others) posted above carefully and practice them. They will help you avoid 'missile spam' situations (often from even occuring in the first place), damage, and leaving yourself so vulnerable.

Then, here is some additional documentation on combat in Evochron: http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegen ... lguide.htm (read through the 'Offensive Tactics' and 'Defensive Tactics' sections).

The combat in this game is inherently more complex, difficult, and diverse than various other space games. It's just not something a new player can quickly be a master of if they're only used to the 'fly in straight and fire' arcade shooter approach. It's not really an issue of 'balance', but rather the game's combat has nuances of physics, tactics, and weapon systems that require a deeper level of player control and awareness... even at the most basic and introductory level of gameplay. With that said though, there are basics and easier ways to get started and I'm quite confident that you'll quickly learn them.

I'll offer to personally walk you through the basics of combat if you want to meet on the Remula One server some time. We'll meet in a friendly system and I'll coach you through how to properly maneuver to attack and defend. For me, it helps significantly to see things in action as I learn them.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Logan Malone

I hate the idea of running away from a fight....

Logan's Run. Gotta love it.

[deathMinder]

Originally posted by Logan Malone
a new player can't continually bother veteran players for advice and help in MP mode.

Hi Logan!
Well I'd have to say that this statement is dead wrong, and here's why:

This game needs more MP players, so anyone who buys a copy and comes online will pretty much be treated like royalty. I know I was...

I kinda speak out of turn, but you could pretty much, at any given time, ask someone who's online for help. Almost always they will drop what they're doing and come lend a hand. You'll notice that the chat usually lights up with hello's as soon as you log in.

Speaking *in* turn, if you ever see me on (tags [SW]dM) then you are more than welcome to hit me up for pointers and assistance. I have only played the game for a month or so, and like you have recently had to work my way through the learning curve. I still can't beat that gad-blasted race, but I have gotten down to where I can pop off 7 high level enemy ships and a carrier.

I guess I'm a bit of a socialite (At least as far a computer geek goes, anyway) and would rather do ANYTHING with other players than by myself. Maybe sometime we could set up an exploration pattern search for new planets or something... I'll help you come clean solar panels if you want (great practice for inertial mode there) or I could coach you about orbiting roids while you blow them up or mine them. (Thats how I learned to control my ship, target practice through asteroid fields at 1500k speeds)

Whatever you end up doing, there are plenty of ways to have fun without getting all caught up in the combat.

[Ripperjk]

I have to say - combat was frustrating at first - with continuous outnumbering on missions that seemed to consist of enemies that were little more than missile racks with engines.

But having worked my way to a fully armed Starmaster and then on to the 2nd military ship (for combat) - Ive finally gained a perspective on combat. I feel I just surfaced after being underwater for a long time.

It really is about learning the tactics needed in a flight model like Evo uses.

The circular interial flybys may not be the fastest way to finish a mission - but they guarantee, done right, the mission will get finished.

I think alot of new guys, myself included, take to the dogfighting flight model from most space games - its second nature to alot of us. But in Evo its the fastest way to get spaced and be hitting the reload button...

So for the new guys - I think Ive pretty much just graduated from 'new guy' to 'starting to get the hang of this' and its a nice feeling. Dont get frustrated and put your experiences with 'dogfighter' space games out of your mind.



Also - buy a deploy constructor - and make a shield array in every battle - gives you a completely safe place to escape to no matter whats being thrown at you. Doesnt make the fighting any easier - but at least you can sit still and catch a breather while the bad guys waste their missles ;-)

[SeeJay]

My best advice to new players is: Get online in MP. I got helped a lot from others there. As stated above, everybody is really helpful.

Battles are much more fun when joining others.
Your Rank will increase much faster as well.

If you're a miner and get bothered by FOE's, give me a call if I'm on and I'll watch your 6 any day.

See ya out there.

[Logan Malone]

I found my combat errors were in fact caused by approaching space combat exactly like planetary air combat tactics. Very interesting and realistic I must say. I should have learned this a bit from the first race mission I received.

It took me a long while to learn this...the hard way. LOL
I appologize for venting my frustration earlier...just had to blow off steam due to my thick headed thinking.

Thanks everyone!

[Edited on 11-22-2010 by Logan Malone]

[~G~]

I find my wingmen do come under attack, but i am the main focus,

Its more annoying that you cant order attack formations, they sit behind you in form up,

The attack enemy is pretty useless as they randomly choose their own targets.