gravity readout stays at 0 !

[DaveK]

Is anyone else finding that their gravity readout stays at zero even when they bump into a station or land on a planet?

I've added a setfont.txt file into the main folder:

Arial
25
1
1

[Marvin]

When entering a planet's atmosphere, throttle back and watch the gravity indicator increase. Your velocity counteracts the effect of gravity ... but when you're going too slow, gravity will overcome and the difference will be what's indicated on the HUD. Same for a station ... throttle back when colliding with a station and see what happens.

[Aesir Rising]

Is the gauge measuring gravity, ground velocity or air-speed or velocity in space, or acceleration?

[Edited on 10-9-2010 by Aesir Rising]

[DaveK]

Once again Marvin - thanks!

So basically, since I'm powering down towards the planet I'm effectively at terminal velocity or going faster than terminal velocity. The gravity indicator must be measuring my weight (the force of gravity that I'm feeling, rather than the force of gravity a stationary object would feel at that point since the force of gravity decreases with distance away from the mass causing the gravity field)

So if I approach the planet slowly and then I switch my engines off once I'm within the gravity field, the gravity indicator would ramp up as I slow down and slowly decrease as I accelerated in freefall, zeroing at terminal velocity (assuming I didn't hit the ground first)

The gravity indicator should read >0 on my way back up


I'll try this out tomorrow

[Edited on 9-10-2010 by DaveK]

[Edited on 9-10-2010 by DaveK]

[DaveK]

aesir - your link to gravity actually goes to a wiki for a magentometer! Not quite the same thing or else no ferrous ships would be antigrav!

[Aesir Rising]

My links (all four of them) should go to the terms or devices used to measure the key word I've hyperlinked. In your example, magnetometer seemed appropriate if you were looking to measure gravitational pull, or the vector of gravity (direction, force?) useful for our in-game space ship.

And the purpose of my question is to point out that you can measure gravitional pull without regard to velocity (which should not factor in at all) or more importantly acceleration (which might factor in if your device is measuring gravity using a lead weight and some string, and bubble-gum to keep it together).

Even if your device could not do so inherently, you could calibrate (zero out) your velocity (or more importantly, acceleration). This is what they do today IRL when they fly airplanes around at 350 knots to look for submarines made out of titanium (not ferrous....) using Magnetic Anomaly Detection equipment.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if the in-game gauge's measurements are affected by velocity, that sounds as if they're not measuring the right thing.

[Aures]

No it doesn't measure your weight or anything similar. It is more like a velocity component due to gravity. The stronger the field and the more time you have been been letting gravity component build up, the higher the reading (not sure if it is general velocity or forward that matters). For planets you only need a small velocity to not to see a gravity component. For stars and black holes it is very high. At least I presume it is, I know what I said above works for planets but I always see a gravity component when near a star so maybe it works differently.

Gas giant planets work similarly to other planets but because you don't have atmospheric drag you can set your velocity and never have it really decrease. Try going into a gas giant, setting your velocity to a couple of hundred and then letting go of the controls. You will probably drift around in the winds for hours (very relaxing) without going appreciably lower or ever getting a non-zero gravity component.

The behaviour of the gravity gauge is actually quite funky. I am not sure how much sense it makes. But if I remember correctly the gauge in Legends worked on a similar principle.

[Marvin]

The relationship you made to black holes is probably easiest to understand. The meter measures "counter-gravity" to the point where your ship's speed eventually overcomes the black hole's pull. Until the gauge reaches zero, you're being pulled into the black hole.

[Aesir Rising]

magnetometers don't measure weight or anything similar. I'm not sure where the confusion lay. I'll back out now.

[Marvin]

The HUD doesn't have a magnetometer. Why would it need one?

[Aesir Rising]

I'm aware the HUD doesn't have a magnetometer.

What it does have is some gauge that is supposed to measure gravity. But it doesn't do that very well, or accurately. Since DaveK can fly into the ground on a planet and still show zero on the Gravity readout on the HUD.

You explain the reason it gives a bogus and inaccurate reading of zero is due to ship velocity. But velocity (I think you meant acceleration maybe?) doesn't impact how you measure gravity. For that matter, acceleration doesn't impact how you measure gravity.

Even if you are "counter affecting" gravity with velocity as you explained, you can fly as fast or slow as you like and if you've got something like a magnetometer or some fictional "gravity" gauge, you'll still be able to measure gravity. When you're near a planet, the gravity reading on the HUD should never be zero.

Unless the Gravity readout on the HUD is measuring something other than gravity. Maybe it's working as intended but not properly described in the documentation.

[Daedalao]

actually, slow your ship down, not full throttle and you'll eventually see an effect on the gauge. Hard to determine what the number means, but I do know that all of the ships in the evochron universe seem to have some form of anti-gravity as they automatically hover above the surface of a planet. I think it may have something to do with how well your ship is coping with the gravity (try flying onto a gas giant sometime)

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Aesir Rising

For that matter, acceleration doesn't impact how you measure gravity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force

[Aesir Rising]

"This article is about a type of acceleration."

Thank you for linking information about acceleration and the unit of measure typically used to represent acceleration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_force_%2 ... guation%29

What would be awesome is if you linked information about gravity, and what you use to measure gravity.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Aesir Rising

What would be awesome is if you linked information about gravity, and what you use to measure gravity.

G-meter. I can scan a pix from my old Dash-1. Anything over 5 Gs and it's a "knock it off" call to go home.

[Aesir Rising]

g-meters measure acceleration, not gravity.

Did you know that 5g on your dash-1 g-meter flying around Jupiter is exactly the same as 5g on Earth and is exactly the same as 5g in the middle of nowhere in space? In all three cases your g-meter would read 5g. Indicating a rate of change in velocity (i.e., accceleration) of about 50 meters per second.

Yet clearly the gravitational force acting upon your dash-1 in all three locations would differ tremendously. The g-meter is useless in measuring that force.

The game has a HUD gauge named "Gravity" in the documentation. It isn't measuring gravity though - otherwise you'd never (ever) see a zero reading in the situation described in the top post. This is confusing. It isn't a huge issue for me. But now I am curious as to what it is measuring.

[DaveK]

Hi - back in the land of the awake!

mass is the amount of "stuff" a body has. The greater the mass the greater the gravitational force it creates. units = kilograms

weight is the the force you feel when you are near a mass large enough to have a decent gravitational pull: units = newtons

If you hold a spring balance with a weight hanging off it you can measure its "weight" in everyday language, but actually its mass

(confusion arises because we use mass and weight interchangably in everyday language and only scientists tend to use weight as a force)

If you stand on a diving board with the spring balance you can read its mass (because its weight stretches the spring) Most balances and scales use the force of gravity to deform something - spring/torsion gauge/strain gauge- and convert it to equivalent mass.

Step off the board and reading on the balance quickly drops to zero because you are in free fall - both you and the weight are falling at the same speed, so the spring can't be stretched by gravity acting on the weight. You are effectively weightless. It is beautifully demonstrated by astronauts floating around in the space shuttle in orbit - they and the shuttle are falling towards the Earth at the same rate - their forward speed lets them continue to fall round the Earth and not hit it.

For many years I used a video of the diving board demo very successfully to help develop an understanding of the difference between mass and weight with science students

So if my gravity measurer reads zero as I am moving down towards to a planet, it isn't measuring gravitational force directly. Its behaviour is consistent with it measuring my weight which is a force. If I land on a big planet my weight is larger than if I land on a small planet. If I have stopped moving down, my weight is a measure of the force of gravity produced by that planet, hence my gravity measurer would reflect this.

Mass also has the property of resisting change in motion (intertial mass), Hence acceleration feels the same as a gravitaional field. Einstein said that if you are in a closed lift you can't distinguish between gravity and acceleration (if it was in a zero g space stationwhenthe lift moved "up" you would be pressed to the floor and it would feel like gravity).

So if I set off upwards, my mass is being pulled back by gravity or if you prefer my mass is resisting me being accelerated - the faster I want to accelerate (not just move) , the larger my weight will be - hence fighter pilots pulling high g turns and astronauts being pressed back into their couches during take off - technically, my gravity meter should register high g turn and manouvres in combat!

Aesir - The variable nature of the makeup of the Earth (different rocks, submarines, big iron/nickel meteorite fragments etc) subtley affect the Earth's magnetic field near them. A magnetometer can detect these small distortions and hence can be used to map geological structures below ground level or submarines - It does measure the magnetic field and will give a reading regardless of which direction you are flying in. It doesn't measure gravity. Sorry that the scientific reasoning behind my feeble attempt at humour wasn't solidly wired on!

There are devices that do the same thing for variations in the gravitation field - useful for analysing planets that don't have a magnetic field!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_geodesy

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by DaveK]

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by DaveK]

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by DaveK]

[DaveK]

Daedalao

Hi read somewhere that the IDS system uses your thrusters to keep you hovering there - you can see fuel slowly being used!

[tha_rami]

Basically, its not measuring gravity. It's called gravity, sure, but maybe standards changed in the late 2200's =P. What the measurement indicates is how much Evochron speed units are substracted/added relatively to your displayed velocity, kind of like how the lateral indicators work.

This, probably, for the less calculative amongst us - it displays it so that we know that with 0 gravity, our movement is not altered by gravity. When it shows anything different than zero, we need to either speed up or jump away to avoid gravitational problems. Especially if it reads over 200.

I do agree that this should be explained in the manual for those that ARE calculative enough to turn 9.81g into 'oh crap I'm falling'.

[Edited on 10-10-2010 by tha_rami]

[Aures]

Flying in an atmosphere uses fuel, period. You can turn on inertial mode and not do anything until you are dropping like a stone and you still use fuel (and no, you don't have to be turning either).

The way gravity works in Evochron is kind of weird. Makes it impossible to orbit a planet AFAIK.

Try going into an atmosphere and flying directly down in IDS at max speed. Then switch to inertial and let your velocity drop to 0 and gravity will kick in. While still facing down turn IDS back on and watch the gravity component go down to 0 while your forward velocity goes back to IDS max. All very strange but that is how the system works. You would need to do it with someone else watching you to see whether that stuff translates into some funky movement. My guess is you do just what it says and looks like. You initially slow down before dropping like a stone. Then you kick in your forward thruster (or for an a better and more incongruous visual effect the afterburner) for a time to basically maintain or reduce your forward velocity.

[DaveK]

thanks the_rami - that makes sense (as much as my contribution did at least), and is easier to grasp.

My next question is then - what use is it? :D:D

[Marvin]

Some of you guys would have a real problem with alien technology ... which, in fact, is what you have when you buy a ship from some star system in the Evochron* universe. The "use" of this piece of alien technology is just what rami (and others) have stated ... it lets you know when you're being sucked into (or affected by) some object with high gravity.

* Even in the Sol system, they've adopted alien technology ... being far better suited (if not easier to understand) to interstellar exploration.

[DaveK]

the voice of reason!