exasperated and frustrated

[chilong]

Man, I don't know how everybody finds these unknown planets. I have spent quite a long time searching and can't find one. I have tried using the spiral/circular search method but to no avail. After all, they could be anywhere in the middle of countless nowheres. I understand some people may enjoy this challenge but hours of searching blindly becomes a real tedius, boring drag. It may just be my own ineptitude that keeps me from success but I can't take it. Being that it seems likely that these locations can provide items that are otherwise unavaiable, I feel that I'm at a dead end. Anybody else having these troubles? Anyone care to comiserate? Misery loves company.....do I have any? Seek and ye shall find. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. You can lead a horse up a flag pole but can't make him see if he'll make a splash.....huh?.....

[Edited on 10-4-2010 by chilong]

[chilong]

Perhaps I was too quick with posting this topic. I just read the post regarding mapping the universe. Perhaps that will be the answer to my problem.......never mind.

[Marvin]

It also helps to do the Quest. It won't show you everything ... but it gets you started.

[BraveHart]

"Sometimes it is just Blind Luck"....Never Give Up, Never Surrender!

[Nigel_Strange]

One thing I have done that has netted some discovery is to leave from one system and fly across the empty areas toward another system. You might find a system in between.

Pay attention anytime you see a system name change in your nav console. When you see a system name change then it means you are in a new area with a new star/planet somewhere. Once this happens, note the boundaries. You will probably find what you're looking for toward the middle of this new system.

[reaper2040]

This "needle in a haystack" issue is probably the only thing that prevents me from truly enjoying the Evochron games. What I really do not understand is why the subject seems to be taboo in the community; it is as though endless searching of the void is a core component of the game and asking for more direction or better tools to search with is some form of cheating.

I have said before and will say again: The "Hitchhikers Guide to the Evochron Universe" was the very best companion to Renegades (and still useful in Legends) I ever had. This tool changed the game from tedious to feeling like I could truly plan a game session and accomplish something. I fear that without some similar tool, Mercenary will become a seldom visited game for me. When you only have a few hours a week available to play, the idea of spending several weeks to find a "hidden" planet is not terribly appealing.

[Marvin]

Then do something in the game that doesn't take time. Something easy, like mining.

[Von Paulus]

While I understand the need to avoid spoilers and turn the part of the game dealing with exploration more easier, I too understand the concerns raised by reaper2040.

[Ravenfeeder]

Chilong - do you just do SP? If you go into MP you might find someone who will assist you in your search.

[gietek]

Well, I agree with reaper2040.

First, I don't understand why there isn't a topic with a huge title *SPOILER!!! YOU WILL PROBABLY DIE WHEN YOU READ THIS!!!* with all the hidden items and systems. Perhaps not the coordinates (or why not?) but good directions would do fine. If you don't want to read it then don't do it. Simple as that.

Second, why in such a vast and technologically evolved world like Evochron there isn't any map with hidden systems marked on it? Why nobody share their discoveries? Why does everybody in Evochron keep quiet? I mean surely you're not the only one exploring.

[SeeJay]

Listen to Ravenfeeder!

I always explore in MP. I"scream" for help sometimes and EVERYONE online "bombs me" with clues and directions until i find what I'm searching for.

[Von Paulus]

Not everybody likes to go to MP.
I saw a thread sometime ago, which gave an idea of a bar where you could collect some gossip. That sounded good. In a certain way it would enrich the gameplay.

[Marvin]

So you want it all ... and you want it now? Hmmmm ... every visit a chocolate factory?

[Von Paulus]

Originally posted by Marvin
So you want it all ... and you want it now? Hmmmm ... every visit a chocolate factory?

I once. And was completely immune. I don't like chocolate.
For now there's a lot for me to explore. But when that day arrives I'll be also frustrated. Well maybe... or maybe not.

Finally, I really fully understand the secrecy. It has to deal with MP.
Thanks Eclipse.

[reaper2040]

To clarify, I don't think that anyone who wants to "play" a game wants all the answers simply given away, that certainly defeats the purpose. I also understand the concern about MP, but really guys, if the best place to learn about secret locations is in MP then the argument that giving away secret locations has a negative effect on MP sounds a little fishy. In Renegades and Legends the universedata.txt had all locations listed in plain text; anyone who could read was able to simply look up any location desired. Did this ruin MP for those games? The Hitchhikers Guide simply read the universedata.txt and displayed the information in an easy to use GUI with filters, etc. It was simply brilliant.

Marvin, your statement to do something like mining if my time is limited may be well-intentioned, but it is sort of like saying "Here's a fully equipped RV, sorry you don't have any maps of the country, but you could have some fun driving around the block for a while."

I am not sure if there is a good solution that will satisfy everyone and not unbalance the play, but the current system of exploration and discovery is certainly very frustrating for all but the die-hard fans. To make this series more successful, Vice will need to make some concessions to the casual audience and even the "other" fans that cannot devote many, many hours to repetitive pattern searching.

[Von Paulus]

Originally posted by reaper2040
I am not sure if there is a good solution that will satisfy everyone and not unbalance the play, but the current system of exploration and discovery is certainly very frustrating for all but the die-hard fans. To make this series more successful, Vice will need to make some concessions to the casual audience and even the "other" fans that cannot devote many, many hours to repetitive pattern searching.

I agree.

[Von Paulus]

Originally posted by Eclipse
Perhaps an addition to the news console for clues to nearby systems.

Good idea.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by reaper2040

In Renegades and Legends the universedata.txt had all locations listed in plain text; anyone who could read was able to simply look up any location desired.

Which is why the Mercenary universe file is encoded.

[gietek]

Originally posted by Eclipse

Originally posted by gietek
Second, why in such a vast and technologically evolved world like Evochron there isn't any map with hidden systems marked on it? Why nobody share their discoveries? Why does everybody in Evochron keep quiet? I mean surely you're not the only one exploring.

Some of those uncharted systems contain things that can be used to great advantage in MP, some of us prefer to keep those advantages quiet.

Well, no offense but I don't care about that. I don't play MP.
What I meant was, imagine you live in Evochron and you have some map of the quadrant. But this is incomplete because nobody wants to share the information even though many pilots go there anyway(?). Come on, Evochron is well past Columbus times. Hidden cargos - fine, people want to keep it secret, but hidden systems are simply unreal.

[Sinbad]

Maybe AI pilots could sometimes give clues when contacted through the trade console.

Columbus made new discoveries and then compiled them with maps. Other travelers could then benefit from his discoveries. I like the idea of making maps of Evochron from the discoveries of other players, as I believe some are starting to do. In this way those who aren't interested in spending time searching can look up what other people have already found, whilst those who get a thrill from discovering totally new things can still do it.

[Marvin]

Try this. But only if you plan to also contribute ... and not just take advantage:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6017

[DaveK]

This is the location of verbs cartography section - not the one in Marvin's post. It's empty at the moment.

http://www.verbsleagues.co.uk/index.php?q=node/6

One of the selling points of Evochron is the vastness of its available space. A second selling point is that the charted systems are only the tip of the places "available".

The fact that some (of the most interesting and desirable) technology and money spinners are only available in hidden systems means that those who don't have the available time to spend playing blind man's bluff actually miss out on exciting parts of the game. For example a mantis drive would make exploration more feasible on limited playing time but you can't get one unless you have already done a lot of wandering - Catch 22!

I think that there has to be some clues in the game or in the instructions to get newbie's at least started. The "fly from system to system and look out for new systems in between" in a good one. Thanks Nigel!

As I said in a similar context in a Legends thread - if going into MP allows one to gather donations of money and info simply for the asking and isn't cheating, why can't SP pilots have at least reasonable hints available in the game or in the instructions?

I don't want billions given - I want to earn my upgrades. I don't want the locations of all the hidden systems - or they aren't hidden, but I would like some help beyond "never give up" or "take up mining" or "enter MP" where everyone else has equipment that I don't even know about and I'm stuck in my class three runabaout being a medium fish in a very small (so it would appear) pond. My alias is "incoming" already, because I spend a lot of time scooting across the sky and then exploding in a spectacular burst of flame and thunder! It can't be fun for eexperienced pilots to shoot this particular fish in the MP barrel - and it certainly isn't fun for me with peashooter guns trying to take on supercharged class 10+ shielded ships. (for a few seconds at a time before becoming an "incomin" yet again!;)

Like reaper, I used the Hitchhikers Guide in legends to plan routes and look at systems more easily. I didn't peek at the hidden systems or the containers. In fact I will still use it for planning in the charted systems (hoping most of the charted stuff hasn't been moved)

An in-system gossip source would do - perhaps like the graded clue systems I have come across in some games; gossip item one gives confirmation of something to look for and a hint as to where to start, perhaps with a hint as to where clue 2 might be available, if required; clue 2 would be a stronger hint and so on 'til if totally stumped, clue xxx gave coordinates.

[Blackthorne]

I agree with Dave an Reaper here. As someone who plays SP mostly (I just can't be bothered dealing with inflated egos and inane banter in the few hours I have for myself each week), I abhor "solutions" like "go to MP and ask around!". Seriously, either we're making a single player game and add MP, or we go the whole 9 yards and make the game MP only and balance it around that (in which case I won't stick around - I'm here for a nice quiet sandbox first and above all).

The problem right now is that it's next to impossible to find any of the "secrets" in the game, mostly because they are too rare.

Let's take Minecraft, for example. The game also doesn't tell you where you will find iron and diamonds (which are required for the equivalent of "high end" equipment there). This bothers no one, since said materials are rather abundant and pretty evenly distributed throughout the gameworld - you don't need the exact location, since you're bound to stumble upon useful resources if you just dig down long enough (and we're talking about 15-30 minutes at most here, barring exceptionally bad luck).

The situation is similar with EM, and yet vastly different. There are no clues, just like in the above example, and no way to tell where something is located. But as opposed to Minecraft, where the resources are abundant enough to be found by luck, we have about 4-6 hidden planets and maybe 30-50 hidden systems located in a vast universe without any landmarks to go by. (Seriously, once you're 50-100 sectors out, the black void looks pretty much the same everywhere).
So, basically most of the content (aaand about 30% of the in-game items) are hidden behind some "nintendo hard" exploration that is simply mindnumbingly boring. Admittingly, this was an issue in Legends and Renegades as well, but could be mitigated by checking the universe-file.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about the satisfaction of "beating" this exploration game on "extra hard". There was a time when I was into that stuff, but I'm becoming more and more of a casual gamer right now, who can't be bothered with stuff like "online scoreboards" and "bragging rights". I paid for the game. There's no ladders and no championships involved, neither of us pay a monthly fee, so why the hell is everybody so opposed to "cheating" (in that case, I'd call it "getting my money's worth out of the game", really)?

I have 3 suggestions for "fixing" the issues with exploration.

1. Offer up the universe file in an unencoded, human-readable version. Lame, I know, but at least quick and reasonably workable. And it didn't kill the last two games, either.

2. Seed unknown systems randomly and in great number. Not finding a particular system is less of an issue when there's 50 others you have found. At the same time, make research stations able to improve a sectors technology to "hidden planet" level, so that obtaining decent equipment isn't keyed to stumbling blindly through the dark for hours. (Or "being a combat god". I haven't forgotten about that mission.)

3. Make the hidden things visible from the main systems, or give out in-game clues to their location. In singleplayer, that is. I don't doubt that a lot of the folks who play online are decent people, but going MP shouldn't be the solution to SP problems.

Of course, it's up to Vice, seeing as this is his brainchild. If he says "Screw this, just harden up!", that's fine by me. But I just don't have the time and determination to be that "hardcore" anymore. In that case, it was fun while it lasted. Time to move on.

-Blackthorne

[Edited on 6-10-2010 by Blackthorne]

[MMaggio]

Just read your post, Blackthorne and altho I respect your desire to play SP, I must tell you I was bit offended by your desciption of MP players en general when you yourself claim you never play MP. You don't know me and you certainly have no right in suggesting that I have an "over-inflatted ego".
But not only have you denigrated me as an MP player, you have also insulted ALL Mp players.
I can't speak for the others and I won't argue that you may have encountered MP players that you found offensive, either thru "inane banter" or "inflated egos". But I say you NEVER found players like that on Remula One.
Personally, I think you owe me an apology for "pigeon-holing" me and assuming I, as an MP player, fall in that category.
As for other players, it is up to them to ask for an apology.
But I can assure you, you will NEVER encounter such ego's or banter on Remula One.
Should you ever change your mind, find another server !
You will NOT play on mine!
Actually, the more I think about it, the madder I get! If anyone here has an "inflated ego" it is you!
I have every right to call your "long-winded" posts "inane", but that would just be my opinion and not worthy of categorizing you anymore than you have a right of categorizing ALL MP players.
Protocal and character restraints keep me from telling you what I really think of you, but should the opportunity arise, I shall truly tell you what a pompous jerk you are.
I would love to go on, but Vice is a friend of mine and I respect him too much!
He may let you play his game, but you will NEVER play on my server!
I am only banning you to "protect" you from "over-inflated egos and "inane banter"

[Edited on 10-6-2010 by MMaggio]

[gietek]

Hang on, I'll go and get some popcorn.