How to Kill and not be Killed

tbodrero · Post by **tbodrero** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:03 am

I'm new to this game and spent the last 6 nights mining to get a decent ship. I have a sheld level 4, laser level 4, missles level 5 and guns level 5.

Any time I get into a fight I get blown to bits. Whats the deal, are my weapons/sheild not good enough? Any hints?

Whytephyre · Post by **Whytephyre** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:09 am

Yeah, your equipment is kinda lackluster. You should be able to fight in that ship, but it will be very hard. How many missile hardpoints/ what frame do you have?

tbodrero · Post by **tbodrero** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:44 am

Thank you for your quick response.

My Frame is a Venture and I have 5 missles bays.

Whytephyre · Post by **Whytephyre** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:52 am

Try upgrading to a pheonix or a hunter frame (or any frame you prefer with more
missile hardpoints & thicker armor). Your frame also influences the strength of your shields as well as your shield booster (X1-X5). I consider a level 5 shield array & a pheonix frame to be about as light & fast as possible (for a civilian ship) while still
being able to hold it's own in combat.

BTW, a powerful engine, & good wings are important for dogfighting.

If you are looking for strategic combat tips, check out:
http://www.starwraith.com/evochronlegen ... lguide.htm

tbodrero · Post by **tbodrero** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:43 pm

This is Great info, thank you for your help!

Sinner6 · Post by **Sinner6** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:55 pm

I loaded class 9 Cannon and Class 4 lasers and engine on an Arrow frame with 2 Exodus missiles and have been out there tearing up the AI. I have found that keeping the AI at arms length till they expend missiles is no problem, then I take out their shield with lasers and finish with cannon. The Cerulan War Zone is where I have been doing the fighting.

Rush · Post by **Rush** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:21 pm

Earn money. A lot. If you follow the quest, you'll may soon figure out a way to earn a good number of millions

Use a Starmaster with 10 shield, Banshee cannon and Fusion laser, plus Excalibur missiles.

That should be enough

:D:D:D:D:D

However, Excalibur missiles have a very long recharge time, so they are very slow and boring to use in dogfight.

Obviously, unsless it is a 1v1

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:30 pm

Keep your IDS off for most of a dogfight. With inertial on, the AIs, and human pilot targeting systems, tend to shoot at where they think that you're heading, not in the direction you are facing. You should also use your CMs to counter the missiles you can't shoot down. Wait until the missile warning system turns red, and then let go 3, or 4, CMs - and keep your speed up.

Practice is mostly what you need. Many games seem difficult at first, a month later, and you're breezing through.

Blackthorne · Post by **Blackthorne** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:06 pm

Originally posted by Rush
Earn money. A lot. If you follow the quest, you'll may soon figure out a way to earn a good number of millions
Use a Starmaster with 10 shield, Banshee cannon and Fusion laser, plus Excalibur missiles.

That should be enough :D:D:D:D:D

However, Excalibur missiles have a very long recharge time, so they are very slow and boring to use in dogfight.

Obviously, unsless it is a 1v1

Seriously, just because it's the most expensive stuff around doesn't mean it's the best. The Phantom beats the Banshee hands down as far as pure damage is concerned, and the starmaster is an acquired taste - sure, she's built like the proverbial brick s...house, but she also flies with all the grace of such a building. You also need to waste a lot of the assembly points on a wing system to get something that deserves the name turning rate out of that frame.

I get much higher acceleration and agility out of a slightly smaller frame like the guardian, at the cost of 2 crew slots and 25 CM. The hull might be 80 points weaker, but the added speed and agility mean I won't get hit as much.

Of course, the starmaster frame looks much better. But if I was concerned about looks to go along with combat efficiency, I'd be using a military ship, anyways.

-Blackthorne

Rush · Post by **Rush** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:15 pm

Originally posted by Blackthorne

Seriously, just because it's the most expensive stuff around doesn't mean it's the best.

Yes I imagined, I was just saying what I'm currently using. I'm still experimenting (only three days of play)

And you're perfectly right on the Starmaster

It's almost a stone, with its advantages and disadvantages
What I like of this game is that there isn't the "ultimate ship" or "ultimate configuration", but many possibile efficient configurations, depending on your strategy and tactics

[Edited on 9-29-2010 by Rush]

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:07 am

I use a Starmaster, no problems with it, flys OK for me.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:54 am

Hi tbodrero, welcome to the game and forum....Hope to see you out there.....

;)

Gnou · Post by **Gnou** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:06 am

Blackthorne says right about frame choice, the price dont make the efficienty.
Dont focus on your "ship level",
you can do a very good toy for a low price.

Shield are very expensive in assembly,
and it is better to learn How to not been hit, so low shield is not a bad choice.
I use a 2 shield level on my Legacy and a 1 level on my Starmaster...
Engine only occur when you are on IDS, so take care about your choice... Power still a fuel Cost !
Learn how to fight in Inertia.

The answer for your question is in the skill.
There is no "missile level", each have their Damage/Speed/Range deal.
A good canon to start is the MaxR for his 700 range, that increase your "fire window" a lot for a good damage due to his fire rate.

For gunfight, as shield recover is quick, it is very important to have enough "fire power" to clear your target shield in one pass.
Then, if your canon is not able to do fully the job you can finish it with a missile taking advantage that your target shield is down.
In this case, even light missile are enough generaly.

In space as in air :
Speed is Life !

[Edite le 9-30-2010 par Gnou]

Whytephyre · Post by **Whytephyre** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:32 am

Level 1 & 2 shields?! Especially on a starmaster?! Don't let me or romulan catch you online with valuable cargo

that is, unless you are REALLY good, because with that little shield, you have no room for error.

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:25 am

How to not be killed? Fly like Yossarian, and drop gratuitous amounts of countermeasures.

And if you didn't get the reference, go read Catch-22.

Gnou · Post by **Gnou** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:13 am

Message original : Whytephyre
Level 1 & 2 shields?! Especially on a starmaster?! Don't let me or romulan catch you online with valuable cargo

that is, unless you are REALLY good, because with that little shield, you have no room for error.

Hehehe

Thats my offline configurations, fair enough against AI.
They are designed for Heavy Trading/Exploring, but sweet enough to stand the ground in warzone.

That said you are right, this dont allow any error facing a skilled human... I dont have test them online, lets try it at the occasion ^^

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:19 am

The Starmaster is a wicked frame! Hard as a rock. You can take multiple hits without even so much as a scratch. The slower engine isn't really a drawback in combat as you use mostly inertia and afterburner. And with max level wing system it has pretty good agility. This frame has saved my life in many sticky situations.

Whytephyre · Post by **Whytephyre** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:57 am

I dunno, face off against a chimera & see how you like that starmaster

Gnou · Post by **Gnou** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:28 am

Military frame vs Civilan one ??
Not fair, Whyte, not fair... ^^

Engine outcome on the afterburner efficiency, a little difference that can give an enough advantage.
But to learn, I think it is better to begin by how to use high Agility.

Aures · Post by **Aures** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:30 pm

*cough* evoch-e *cough*

Civvy frames are fine for killing AI as any human flown ship is more agile than any AI ship. But, try flying that starmaster against something more agile that isn't flown by an AI script limited to using IDS. Fair fights are for medieval knights.

BTW Gnou missles do have levels. The non specialised missles have a class in their item description (eg starfire class 4 missle Y: 1800 S: 900 R: 3000) when you buy them just like cannons do.

Hmm maybe it should be pointed out that no frame is tough enough to prevent you getting blown to bits in mere seconds. Especially if the other guy is better than you. But yeah, having a decent ship is one way of being better than a swarm of AI ships. It is also quick and easy to get compared to actual combat skills.

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:53 pm

Ok, for sure when it comes to combat civi frames don't even compare to military fighters. Something like the Evoch will wipe the floor with a Starmaster. But as Aures points out a high spec ship doesn't make a Top Gun pilot.

SeeJay · Post by **SeeJay** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:08 pm

There is only one way to make a Top Gun pilot. PRACTICE and preferably fight someone thats better than you, then you'll learn something.

:P:P

Aures · Post by **Aures** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:20 pm

In Newtonian (or quasi-Newtonian in the case of Evochron Mercenary) combat there is no such thing a "tailing" a target. If you are on their six, it is only because you are pointed towards them and they are pointed away from you. There is nothing to stop you both doing a 180 and reversing the situation.

But, if they are in a starmaster and you are in an evoch-e you can effectively tail someone by running rings around them so they can never face you properly. No guns or missle lock if they can't face you. Plus if they do manage to dish some damage you can just outrange them whereas they cannot get away from you when the situation is reversed.

The combat advantages of a military frame don't go away just because you are fighting AI, it just tilts the table even more in your favor. If instead of staring at rocks for 6 nights tbodrero had done missions for the military he would now have access to all the military frames and have made enough money to buy and kit one out.

Once you have a miltary frame and a civilian frame there is no reason to use the civilian frame for combat unless you get caught out or you want to collect dropped stuff from your kills. Of course, if you get to the stage where the AI are trivial you might want to start playing around with lesser rigs to create more of a challenge.

Whytephyre · Post by **Whytephyre** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:41 am

I like the Lamprey better than the Evoch-E personally, it only goes 100 K less than the Evoch-E (801 K) in IDS & is a lot tougher.

Aures · Post by **Aures** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:03 am

I care not for IDS speeds. In 1.092 the beefed up forward/reverse inertials means you can now use them in atmosphere. Now I have no reason to touch IDS except as a convenient way of coming to a complete stop outside of combat situations.

-13 agility for a measly 10 extra armor and an extra fuel tank on the lamprey vs the evoch-e. I wouldn't call a 7.4% increase in armor a lot tougher, does that even translate into being able to take an extra missile in most situations? And if your going to trade speed for armor why not go with the firestar? Only -15 agility vs the evoch-e but has 20 more armor.

You are of course welcome to prefer whatever frames you want. I want the best acceleration I can get, so it is the evoch-e for me all the way. If the heavier military frames had more equipment slots or something I might consider them. As it stands, only doing stuff that requires crew and/or cargo bays gets me out of my evoch-e and into my starmaster.

Armor is only good for taking hits. The idea is to hit the other guy.

[Edited on 1-10-2010 by Aures]