UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Wasp89 »

See the attached Excel File, which will auto-compute the location for you upon your input of two points!

Actually, this isn't a lesson. Instead, I've decided to share my secret and simply tell you how to triangulate the coordinates of a cargo container with great precision. All you need is a calculator and two data points. The data points are obtained by jumping in and out of the sector (twice) and recording the x,y,z coordinates for each entry point as well as the pitch and heading given to you by your science officer for each point. A couple of slight adjustments to the data and three plug-n-chug equations later, and you have the location of the containers that will be accurate within +/- 2000 units.

Note: Make sure your scientific calculator is set to it's "degree" mode, or else you will get a wrong answer.

Here's how:

Image

If you are interested in the actual math, let me know, and I can scan and post the work I did to come up with those equations as I have time.

[Edited on 2-6-2010 by Wasp89]

[Edited on 2-9-2010 by Wasp89]
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Maarschalk »

LOL...can find it much quicker then calculating by visually remmembering where pitch and heading points at after each jump in the sector.....:P:P:P:P:P
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Wasp89 »

Originally posted by Maarschalk
LOL...can find it much quicker then calculating by visually remmembering where pitch and heading points at after each jump in the sector.....:P:P:P:P:P
True, but that method is imprecise. If you do not have a navigation officer, you won't be able to pick up the containers unless you are very close to them, and that can result in jump after frustrating jump. By doing some simple triangulation, you can get very precise coordinates and you only need to have a good science officer to get the results.

I've created a program for my graphing calculator which prompts me for the data points and then spits out the answer, so it actually takes me just a minute or two to get the coordinates.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Maarschalk »

Very nice...Wasp89....:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Sinbad »

Nice work.

Why can't the navigation officer do those calculations?

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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Accountant »

Nice work Wasp, very impressive! :cool:

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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Nigel_Strange »

Or you could use graph paper and plot it out.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Nigel_Strange »

I must admit, though, it's the first time I've seen a real-world application of high-school math. They always tell you how useful trigonometry is in real life, then you get there, and ask "Hey, where's all that trig use that I studied for?"
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Wasp89 »

Thanks everyone for the comments.

It really is just your run-of-the-mill trigonometry, using tangents to find the slopes of both lines based off of the heading and then setting the two resulting linear equations (Equation of a Line) equal to each other and solving for x; then you plug the x into either linear equation and solve for z. Then you just use one of the points, find the distance between that point and the x,z coordinate which you just solved for (Pythagorean Theorem) , then use the tangent function to find the height of the point above the test point (tanP=height/base). Add that last value to the y-value of your test point, and you have your y. The equations look a lot more complicated then they really are. The tricky bit is making sure you know exactly where you were in space when your science officer reports his data, and also making sure you adjust the heading degree to fit the trigonometric convention for reporting degrees.

I imagine that it would probably be pretty easy to set up an excel sheet for this. I'll look into it; if I find that I can make something fairly easily, I'll upload it to filefront and post a link here.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by shewter »

[quote]Originally posted by Wasp89
All you need is a calculator and two data points.

Image

What's a Calculator?:P
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by DennyMala »

Very nice job!

My math skills wouldn't have got me there in a century.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Maarschalk »

Originally posted by shewter

What's a Calculator?:P
Something that Calcs You later........LOL.....:P:P:P:P:P
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by IckleChesh »

Originally posted by Wasp89
Thanks everyone for the comments.

It really is just your run-of-the-mill trigonometry, using tangents to find the slopes of both lines based off of the heading and then setting the two resulting linear equations (Equation of a Line) equal to each other and solving for x; then you plug the x into either linear equation and solve for z. Then you just use one of the points, find the distance between that point and the x,z coordinate which you just solved for (Pythagorean Theorem) , then use the tangent function to find the height of the point above the test point (tanP=height/base). Add that last value to the y-value of your test point, and you have your y. The equations look a lot more complicated then they really are. The tricky bit is making sure you know exactly where you were in space when your science officer reports his data, and also making sure you adjust the heading degree to fit the trigonometric convention for reporting degrees.

I imagine that it would probably be pretty easy to set up an excel sheet for this. I'll look into it; if I find that I can make something fairly easily, I'll upload it to filefront and post a link here.
Sorry, but my maths skills are about as much use as a chocolate fire guard! What in the name of all non-maths peeps did you just say. I got as far as "It really is just your run-of-the-mill...", then it all phased out for a while, I got the odd normal work like: then, and, it, etc. But most of it was utter gibberish to me.

Case in point: I was talking to Ping the other day, about not knowing how an equation with the same numbers and actions applied to it can come out with 2 different answers (quadratic equation). His responce was something like "Because it depends on where the line crosses the axis on the graph will give you different answers" or something like that. I was still woundering where the graph came into it. As far as I knew, I was adding a few numbers together, not drawing nice pictures. I am sure Ping will correct me and give the real explanation of what was said!

Maths 101 for people like me:
1. Pick a number, any number
2. Pick another number, any number,
3. Add the 2 numbers together
4. What you should get is a number that is bigger than the 1st. If not, you done it wrong!

But, as every one else its saying what a good job you have done, well done Wasp, I must trust the fellow pilots that what you just said does actualy work! :P
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by warsign »

I remembered early math days of mine.
Very good work Wasp, thanks...

Is there a method for planets? ROFL!






[Edited on 2-8-2010 by warsign]
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Marvin »

Originally posted by IckleChesh

Maths 101 for people like me:
1. Pick a number, any number
2. Pick another number, any number,
3. Add the 2 numbers together
4. What you should get is a number that is bigger than the 1st. If not, you done it wrong!
:cool: Unless, of course, you're working with at least one negative number. And now you probably know how Kirk felt when he asked Spock to explain his slingshot maneuver around the sun.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by PingBosun »

I can echo IC's view of sums. He's useless at sums. His concept of two is one and another one!!!!

Please don't confuse him Marvin, negative numbers mean an overdraft at the bank!!!

My other son asked me many years ago"Why do I need to know the area of a triangle - I'll never need it!". Then I had to clad the gable end with plastic. So I asked him how much he thought I would need. "Dunno" was the standard teenage answer. "Simple, Its the area of the triangle". He looked at me a bit miffed, but now he's married and running a house, he now realises such things are important.

IC on the other hand doesn't worry about that - its a phone call "Dad, how much do I need?"

Who's got it right?
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Wasp89 »

Originally posted by IckleChesh
Sorry, but my maths skills are about as much use as a chocolate fire guard! What in the name of all non-maths peeps did you just say. I got as far as "It really is just your run-of-the-mill...", then it all phased out for a while, I got the odd normal work like: then, and, it, etc. But most of it was utter gibberish to me.

But, as every one else its saying what a good job you have done, well done Wasp, I must trust the fellow pilots that what you just said does actualy work! :P
Okay, sorry. Here's another way of explaining it which might make more sense:

When you jump to one point, you get all of the information you need to create the equation for a line which goes between the point you jumped to and a second point (the containers). But you need more information to figure out just where on that line your containers are.

So you jump to another point, and again get the information which allows you to create the equation for a line from that second point to the first point. Since we know these two lines have one point in common, we can simply set the equations for these lines equal to each other and solve for the coordinates!

@Ping: That's funny :P

@Warsign: I wish there was a way! We should ask Vice to incorporate rotational "wobble" on stars imparted by far away planets, so that we can calculate the locations and sizes of those planets :D


Still working on the Excel sheet. I'm glad you all like it!
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or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise,
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all...

...For death is the destiny of every man;
the living should take this to heart...
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Wasp89 »

Download the Excel sheet attached to the first post for the ability to easily compute the location of containers! It was saved in compatibility mode, so you don't need MS Office 2007 to open it.

Thanks to Eclipse for the idea of incorporating the formulae into an Excel sheet.
-The race is not to the swift,
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise,
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all...

...For death is the destiny of every man;
the living should take this to heart...
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by DennyMala »

Great!
With that even we that are not so math skilled can find containers in no time. Thanks a lot.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by IckleChesh »

Originally posted by Wasp89
Okay, sorry. Here's another way of explaining it which might make more sense:

When you jump to one point, you get all of the information you need to create the equation for a line which goes between the point you jumped to and a second point (the containers). But you need more information to figure out just where on that line your containers are.

So you jump to another point, and again get the information which allows you to create the equation for a line from that second point to the first point. Since we know these two lines have one point in common, we can simply set the equations for these lines equal to each other and solve for the coordinates!
Now that I understand. Thanks Wasp. Downloaded the spreadsheet so I can "see" how it works. I have a very visual mind so I understand things far more if I can see it working, or if it is explained in words that create an image in my head. That is why I work in Telecoms, I understand how to connect comms circuits because it is just colours.

@Ping: I leant from the best: Why do something yourself, when you can get somebody else to do it for you? :P I also know that a 12v electrical testing led screwdrive and 240v mains feed do not mix! Apart from this topic, I dont think I have ever come across a need for Trig in the 17ish years since I got a D in GCSE maths :P

EDIT: Just got this from the spreadsheet
=(TAN(-RADIANS(B7)+1.570796327)*(B3)-TAN(-RADIANS(E7)+1.570796327)*(E3)+B5+E5)/(TAN(-RADIANS(B7)+1.570796327)-TAN(-RADIANS(E7)+1.570796327))

Nope, just confused me even more. I think I will just accept the fact that it works, and thank Wasp for the spreadsheet. I think I am going to rest my brain now!

Oh, and apparently the squareroot of -1 is J :o :o

BOOM! SPLAT! (sound of brain exploding and work mates looking on in amazment!)

[Edited on 2-9-2010 by IckleChesh]
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by verbosity »

Originally posted by IckleChesh
Oh, and apparently the squareroot of -1 is J :o :o
And I always thought it was e , oh well,

nice work btw wasp ;)
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by IckleChesh »

Originally posted by verbosity
Originally posted by IckleChesh
Oh, and apparently the squareroot of -1 is J :o :o
And I always thought it was e , oh well,

nice work btw wasp ;)
Sorry, my mistake. It is in fact i (for imaginary)
Have a look here for the mind bending reason:
http://dlmcn.com/rootm1d.html
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by PingBosun »

Depends on where you were you learned about j/i notation.

I was taught that square root of -1 was j, however I am doing a OU maths course where its i.

No matter its just a notational variance which effectively indicates direction.

Good work though Wasp, thanks tons.
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UPDATE! A Lesson On Triangulating Cargo Container Positions

Post by Trip »

What we really need is a command to just ask the navigational officer if there is anything interesting in the current sector. That would make the finding of containers a whole lot easier and more realistic than a crew member that only does his job once upon entering a sector then clams up.
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