Potential new player with Combat concerns

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:24 pm

I've been a long time fan of these types of games since the early days of Privateer. I've also spent a lot of time with combat oriented games like Wing Commander, X-wing and many others.

I played the X2 game for quite a while and enjoyed the open ended feel of it. I'm intruiged with this game for that same reason. The ship customization and overall feel of being part of a massive galaxy is great.

I love the combat parts to these games but am a little worried, based on what I've read in these forums, that the combat is a little frustrating for new players. It seems that that art of missle dodging plays a big part. I don't want to get deep into this game and find that I can't get the hang of missle avoidance and find myself getting shot down or simply avoiding combat altogether.

I intend to play offline primarily as my time availabilty is spurratic. Can someone give me their impressions of combat from the newbie perspective and what I should expect?

I played through X-Wing Alliance, Freelancer, Descent Freespace 1 and 2 and many others to completion. So I can hold my own in those games, but I've also had some bad experiences with flight sims where I can't seem to last 5 seconds against a missle.

Thanks

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:39 pm

There are plenty of places to practice and learn the game in friendly systems. Only the Hostile and some moderate threat level System pose a challenge and you can practice and play the Game at your own pace. Multi player would be the best option for new players to Start in Saphire as there will be many help full advanced players to help you with questions you might have!

Oh yes, and welcome to the Game and Forum. Hope to have a chance of seeing you out there considering your limited time!;)

[Edited on 9-30-2009 by Maarschalk]

Post by **Vice** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:40 pm

It is pretty subjective due to variations in player tolerances, skill levels, and experience (how 'deep' is too 'deep' for you as an example). But I'll offer some advice and comments.

First, if you played FreeSpace 1 and 2 extensively and learned missile avoidance with that game, you will have some important basic concepts needed for this game learned already. Timing with counter-measures in particular will prove useful in this game.

Also, you have quite a range of options available to you, some of which are often overlooked/missed by new players. You can often pass right through hostile space without ever having to fire a shot if you're just trying to get somewhere. You can defend against missiles by shooting them down with any particle cannon, you aren't just limited to a counter-measure system. You can outrun missiles, strafe them, out-turn them, and boost your CM effectiveness by dropping your heat signature. With a little practice, you can turn the tables on a missile-happy enemy and force them to exhaust their supply, then move in for an easier kill.

Lastly, some of what you may read on this forum is from ambitious rookies who attempted to take on challenges in areas of space they were not ready for. A new player should not just dive in to Thuban, Sierra, or Pearl expecting to 'win'. You will need to pace yourself and establish a skillset of tactics as you learn combat. Once you become more skilled, you'll be able to venture further out into much more challenging systems with much more capable enemies. But early on, I would recommend staying close to Sapphire and practice in the Olympus system for a while until you've got the basics down. That will let you practice with a limited number of hostiles using limited ship configurations, limited tactics, and limited weapons. Then work toward more challenging objectives and hostile forces. There is a learning curve to this game and you often need to employ tactics on a multiple levels, rather than just always doing A when B happens. Combat does require practice, but the tradeoff is, by many accounts, improved depth to gameplay because of the range of options and needed tactics.

[Edited on 9-30-2009 by Vice]

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:50 pm

Hey Wedge,
I'm a newbie on here as well. In fact, this is my first post. I have been playing in single player for about 2 weeks now and I am finding that the combat aspect to the game is very much what I have been waiting for. I can't remember which game I played in the past that had more true-to-life space physics such as inertia ( I have played many, many space sims) but this game uses that model perfectly in my opinion.
This does make things like missile-dodging a little complicated especially if you are still new to the controls and forget to turn the inertial controls back on before hitting the thrusters.
You can shoot down missiles which gives you an alternative to dodging them. There are also counter-measures (which I haven't found how to use yet) that the trainer touches on.
All-in-all, I have been loving the space combat. Sure I get eradicated a lot but I have only just begun learning how to fight in realistic space-sims again and I am already far better then when I first started a couple of weeks ago.
My space sim experience started with Elite and ran through Wing Commander (all of them including Privateer), FreeSpace 1 and 2, Freelancer, and a couple others that I have forgotten.
So far I have come to enjoy this one the best.
My opinion. Take it for what it is worth.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:45 am

Hello Wedge598 & Trip, welcome to the forum and the Sim.

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:26 am

"Welcome aboard Wedge598 and Trip".....Hope to see you in MP when your ready

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:18 am

Welcome aboard.

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:30 pm

Thanks so much for the warm welcome everyone. I'm going to go ahead and purchase the game tonight. I had a lot of fun with the demo and I'm impressed with the variety of contracts you can take on. I played around with some of the nice Cockpits by warsign and Accountant in the demo and was also impressed by what they were able to accomplish.

It's amazing that this game is so small on the hard drive but manages to feel enormous inside. I also love the controls for the ship, they seem to strike a realistic balance between that arcade-like movements seen in the classic space combat sims and a more realistic depiction of what moving through a vacuum would really be like.

If I had to nit-pick, it would be with some very minor graphical things. The default cockpit is very nice and the TrackIR support is a huge plus but I think perhaps the interior frame textures are a little too busy, almost like it's trying too hard to look sci-fi. The more cleaner brushed metal textures warsign uses seem to fit better IMO.

I do love the concept of flying down to the cities but the cities themselves seem to lack some real character. If they blended in with the planet surface a bit more and didn't appear to be mounted on a large square plate I think they'd look a little better. They could also use some color, the monotone steel gray seems a bit overused.

But those are minor observations and neither will detract from my enjoyment of the game. I commend Vice for sticking with this project for so many years and providing a richly detailed galaxy for us Han Solo wanna-be's.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:52 pm

Yes, those are minor things that if changed might affect the Size and speed of the Game in terms of performance and loading time.....etc. mho I think kinda.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:14 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse
Careful, Legends is highly addictive!!!!
Welcome to Evochron.

Yes, I forgot, it would also add to the addiction factor which is at the moment already at 100% LOL:P:P:P:P:P

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:52 pm

Originally posted by Wedge598

I do love the concept of flying down to the cities but the cities themselves seem to lack some real character. If they blended in with the planet surface a bit more and didn't appear to be mounted on a large square plate I think they'd look a little better.

Funny you should mention that.

I thought it looked pretty cool ... glad you gave me an excuse to post it.

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:19 pm

Wow, see, that does look cool.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:24 pm

I don't know if the default game has any of these ... but I've run across two or three in my mod. All are that way by accident ... wish I knew how to "sink" a city like that deliberately.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:30 pm

ROFL^^^:D:D:D:P:P:P:P:P:P

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:03 pm

As an update I've finally started to have some success with combat in the Olympus sector. I've upgraded my ship to the Striker frame and added a level 6 sheild. This sheild seems to be the key to my limited success so far because if I fail to dodge or destroy all the incoming missles I can take a direct hit and keep on going as long as it's a hit from only one missle.

One on one I've been able to take on even the high threat guys so far. I've also been sucessful in 2-3 ship battles but am getting owned pretty regularly when I come up against 4 or more. With so many missles to dodge it's tought to take on too many at once.

One strategy that seems to work well is to use inertia to slip past the group of enemies at speeds their missles and weapons can't track and then power in behind the last guy in line and take him out first.

I've also use the cheap feeling strategy to slip by using inertia to shoot down all their missles as they chase me and then move in for the kills when they have spent all the missles.

At my current ranking the missions don't pay much so I've been trying to use missles sparringly so I can make a little profit, but it's tough when I can't get missions with fewer than 4 enemies to take down.

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:17 pm

Maybe you should hunt down an Excalibur pack of missiles!! Pay once and they keep regenerating every 30 seconds. Or, you could find Lost Rucker and make some money mining platnimum, all the roids there are solid plat - good for ships and equip too.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:51 pm

Maybe you should go back to Sapphire! I know you haven't seen/done everything there is in Sapphire.
Too often pilots are over eager to engage in combat before thay have finished all there is to do in Sapphire and found all there is to gain.

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:15 am

I've spent quite a bit of time in Saphire and Olypus now. And I frequently jump between the two. As far as I can tell there are less that a dozen space stations. and about a half a dozen planets to land on in each area. I've traveled all around to each place in both locations and I've got a full crew with 100% skill and 100% loyalty each. My navigator isn't showing my anything else beyond this central cluster of stations and planets. Am I missing something? Is there a lot more to see in these areas? If so, how do I discover them?

I took a brief journey to Oynx tonight just to see what was there. The system seems even smaller than the other two but I did manage to upgrade to a Phoenix frame in one of the remote stations. On the whole though I found way too many reds in each area to battle so I made a quick exit.

Is there an increasing level of difficulty and number of hostiles the further I get from Saphire? Or is there another Saphire- or Olympus-like sector out there that I could relax in? Is the best bet to just buy licenses at the stations to afford yourself some protection or are you expected to battle it out every where you go from here on out?

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:44 am

Even the hostile systems have a lot of empty space where you can "rest and repair" in relative safety. One "panic" jump (Alt+F2) with a Mantis drive is about all you need ... assuming you know your way back to inhabited space.

Concerning what else you can find in Sapphire (and elsewhere): while examining a couple files in an effort to mod EL, I've run across enough "hidden" systems to create another beacon quest. In fact, some of them are so far off the beaten path I doubt any single person could find them all without clues.

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:29 am

Originally posted by Wedge598 Is the best bet to just buy licenses at the stations to afford yourself some protection or are you expected to battle it out every where you go from here on out?

"Buying a license at one station in a system helps....no need to buy all of the licenses in the system. At that one station you will not have to pay a docking fee and it will provide some protection...do some of the easier combat missions until you get comfortable with aerial combat".....the further out away from Sapphire the better the equipment/guns-laser's/ship frames you will find.

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:23 pm

Thanks for your great tips guys.

It's not that I'm itching to do a lot of combat, I really enjoy the trading and crafting side of things too. But I am itching to explore more of this beautiful universe. I was just wondering if I were to skip through some of the tougher sectors I'd find more like Olympus on the other side.

I did poke my head in Thuban? and Lambda. Thuban was nasty with a dozen or so reds everywhere I went but Lambda seemed a lot like Olympus so I'll probably poke around some there too.

So far, the big money maker for me has been the crafting and selling. I scoff up Antimatter whenever I can and craft some Fuel Converters with it. I sell those outside of Saphire for about $1.3M each. Which has allowed me to build up a decent bank account of over $10M which in turn allows me to buy licenses and ship upgrades as I find them.

I'm still not sure I get the license thing though. In Thuban I bought a license and it seemed to have no effect on the number of reds in the area. Also, it seems that you'd have to perform a lot of transactions (hundreds?) in order to make back the money you spent on the license. I'm just not seeing a compelling reason to buy them yet. What am I missing?

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:37 pm

License does not buy you less enemies, it buys you protection from AI enemy ships while docked at that station, also you do not have to pay docking fees at that station and you get 20 to 30 % discount on items you buy at that station. So if trading is your business then you want to buy licenses at stations where the items are already cheap so you can sell them for an extra 30 % profit at your selling point.

BraveHart · Post by **BraveHart** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:12 pm

Remember as your wealth increases so does the cost of doing business.....even though you are not into combat it is a good ideal to have some training to help you keep the hostiles off you as you trade....I like the trading and building aspects of Lengends too! and the Exploring

......Shoot "I Just Love Legends Period"

Wedge598 · Post by **Wedge598** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:16 pm

Thanks Maars, I also found a cool strategy guide online that explained that same thing to me. Now I think I get it.

I also hadn't realized either that different economies were assigned to different planets and stations. I'll have to start paying attention to that too to start planning out some trade runs. Previously I was just buying in Saphire and selling in Olympus. It worked, but I wasn't being terribly careful with profit margins. It all seemed somewhat fruitless when I could buy some antimatter for less than 200k, craft a fuel converter out of it and sell it for $1.2M.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:36 am

Your welcome, and yes there is a lot of cool stuff in the Strategy guide to.