Some Crazy Ideas

[Waltorious]

Hi all,

This is going to be a long post... sorry in advance. Anyway, Evochron Legends is awesome and it got me thinking about some crazy ideas. Many of them would be hard / impossible to incorporate into the game fully but most of them could probably be implemented in some form, and many of them would be pretty big changes / additions so keep in mind that these are merely some crazy ideas I had.

1)

Get out of the ship. Wait, hear me out! So I know that a major design element of Legends is that everything can be done from the cockpit, seamlessly. But what if we could get out of our spaceship... seamlessly? My dream game is one where I could dock at a station and then get out of my ship and actually walk around it in first-person, hang out at the bar, chat with other players "face to face" as it were before we head out on another mission (and I swear I was planning this post before Zaphod posted a similar idea in his Second Life thread!). Now, actually doing this wold be nearly impossible, requiring probably another 3D engine and such, but I still think that there would be some cool aspects to getting out of your ship in Legends even if it's only represented by menus or something.

I know that one potential argument against this is that players could "hide" at stations by docking if they were under attack... in the current game docking doesn't save your ass. But, unless I am mistaken, entering the Shipyard DOES save your ass, at least for a little while... enemies can hang around the station waiting for you, but effectively it's the same thing as if you docked your ship and got out. So why not be able to do other things on the station? I'm imagining being able to go hang out at a bar where I could talk to other people (both NPC and other players) and could do things like hear rumors, get certain types of jobs or just relax a little. NPCs could give you rumors (sometimes for a fee) that could be hints about the dangers / benefits of other systems, market tips, or maybe even hints for where some hidden things are. Currently, if I fly to Deneb and read the System Information, I am told that there is a hidden facility somewhere nearby. What if, instead of reading it there, I had to dock somewhere and hear the rumor? I think that would be a lot cooler. Also this could add flavor to the different systems. In rich systems, the stations would be really swank with lots of people hanging out. Poor or remote systems could be more deserted, with only a few seasoned mercenaries wandering around. Also I think this could be a cool way to add some more "sketchy" types of jobs. I always thought it was weird that Rebels could openly hire people to attack the navy. What if you had to do it descreetly somewhere on the station? Other types of jobs that come to mind could be some "discreet" (read: illegal) deliveries. I imagine that these would be like dead drops... take cargo to certain coords and jettison. People come by later to pick it up. These would be at out-of-the-way places. And, sometimes, they would actually be sting operations by the navy, so when you get to the drop point you're surrounded by police, and have to fight / hoof it out of there.

Now, if people really don't like the idea of being able to "hide" at stations by docking, then a lot of this functionality could even be simply added to the docking menu, especially rumors and "discreet" jobs, but it would be harder to add atmosphere and individuality to stations that way. (I really do like the idea of having rumors or some other way to hear news from other systems though... word from upper evochron is that the military is hiring mercenaries at the war front. People are saying Pearl is dangerous but pays well for the brave. Etc.)

If people DO like the idea of being able to dock and get out of the ship to do some stuff, I think this gets even more exciting when we start to think about getting out of the ship at a city. Which brings me to:

2)

More reasons to land on planets. Like everyone else, I find being able to land on planets in Legends to be totally awesome. Unfortunately, I soon found very little reason to do so. It takes a while to land and consumes fuel... why not just dock at the station? Sure, you can mine planets, but as far as I can tell the only unique things on planets are Oxygen, Gold, Silver and Biological Material (sometimes water, but you can get that from rings too). Some of these are fairly valuable, but not as much as platinum, so what's the point?

But, what if cities were more interesting? If we could dock at cities and get out of the ship to check them out, it stands to reason that there would be MUCH more to do than on a space station. Also, it provides a great opportunity to add unique things to cities and planets. Go see the legendary hanging gardens on Emerald! Check out the magnificent Alliance government building on Sapphire!

Another way to make planets more interesting could be some more variety in mundane ways as well. So far it seems like all the planets have an oxygen atmosphere... what it some were non-breathable gases, which could also be "mined"? Or maybe you'd need some special equipment in order to extract some of the more trace gases. What if some planets had very different mineral makeups, so mining them yielded different and more profitable commodities? Maybe there could even be some uninhabited planets that are dangerous to fly to but contain some valuable stuff to mine. Also, I think it would be pretty awesome if there were some gas giants in the game, which pilots could mine gases from (and yes I know Jupiter is in the game, although I haven't been there myself... but more would be cool).

3)

More "peaceful" things to do. Fighting in Legends is awesome, and I haven't even gotten around to trying out the military yet. But I think there could be some more cool things to do for those who aren't inclined to battle. Others have made some great suggestions for this, but something I've been thinking about is racing (I talked about this briefly in another thread). Currently racing is not particularly interesting... it's mainly a way to earn money early without much danger, and then people forget about it. I think it could be a lot cooler though.

Easy changes to make could simply be allowing races against more than one other pilot at a time, and redesigning the courses so there's a little more freedom. Instead of a bunch of rings that are close together, make them spaced out pretty far with more freedom about how to get in between... this way people would want to use afterburner, but not too much because then they couldn't make the turns, so there would be more skill involved. Also having races take place in interesting places like asteroid fields or in planet atmospheres could be cool.

To make racing REALLY cool, though, there would need to be more options for designing ships with speed in mind. The afterburner could be a separate upgrade from the engine, and maybe the wing / thruster system could get more involved in its design (not sure exactly how yet). Weight could come into play more, maybe people would want to leave some assembly points unused to decrease weight. Also maybe certain components could be designed for atmospheric flight, to help with those races. Basically, being able to design a hotrod ship.

In multiplayer, players could set up some really big races, with a whole bunch of pilots. Everyone would throw together a hotrod and join in the race. Maybe there could even be some courses that would go in and out of atmospheres so pilots would have to compromise between an atmosphere racer and a space racer. Also really long courses would require some compromise on performance in order to be able to carry enough fuel.

Of course, a hotrod spaceship would be lousy at combat. So if someone really wanted to be a racer for a living, they'd have to avoid fights... which brings me to another suggestion:

4)

A few more "safe" areas. Yes, I know this has been discussed already, and I know that Sapphire is supposed to be the safe spot for beginners, but it can be a bit tough when every other system has enemies to deal with. "Fair" systems aren't too bad, but I've still encountered hostile Navy while in those systems. I think there should be at least a few places where the Navy is always green and can help you out if you get in trouble with a few Rebels or Guild. Unless, of course, you piss the Navy off by attacking them or getting caught in one of their sting operations.

These could provide some places to go for traders / miners / racers who don't want to worry about hostiles. Of course, they would be less profitable for these activities than venturing forth into dangerous territory. Even for racing... perhaps there could be some quasi-illegal no-holds-barred racing events out in these lawless systems, where people would take potshots at each other during the race, but where payouts are really high for the brave. It might be hard to prevent these from simply becoming brawls though... have to think about that one.

Whew! OK that was really long, I better stop. Let me know if there's anything you like amongst my crazy ramblings.

Rock on.

[Edited on 7-28-2009 by MMaggio]

[tha_rami]

Okay, let me start off by saying its great you come up with ideas this detailed. Always a good thing, honestly.

1) Personally, I'm still opposed to walking around. Think about it, the only thing you'll add is interface that does little more than add eyecandy. The trade-off is that a lot of work will have to be spent there instead of on more important parts of the game.

2) I agreed to every single one of the points besides the walking around thing. I'd love to see gas giants, different atmospheric conditions, and stuff.

3) Agreed. I'd also space out the boxes much farther and make them larger.

4) Actually, there are a lot of systems that just require a tiny bit of work to make friendly near Sapphire. The deeper systems are harder because they're one of the few things that give a feeling of progression .

For the racing idea, you could just give all racers 2 EMP/Engine-disabling missiles at start and remove all their other secondaries at trade-in value.

[Edited on 28-7-2009 by tha_rami]

[Grue]

I'm going to only tippy toe into this conversation.

I would like to see the ability to get out of the ship to help repair the ship. I feel this expands on the theme of the "lone wolf". "You want something done right? Do it yourself!" Reminds me of Han Solo and Chewy doing all the repairs themselves.

I can just imagine hanging there in space after a battle repairing the ship or you don't make it home.

You could even make the repairs like the solar panel cleaning contracts. You need to check various sytems (sweep them over) etc. Heck, add some colored duct tape to customized your ride!

Or even keep the automated repair system option in the game but if the auto repair system fails you have to get out and fix the repair system.

I do understand there needs to be a careful balance of fun vs game mechanics. I don't want players getting annoyed they need to go extra vehicular just to fix a ship. The automated repair system does take up a slot of equipment. If a player chooses not to equip the repair system then they are stuck doing the repairs themselves, at least to the point they can fly back to a base for full repairs.

[Maarschalk]

Originally posted by Grue
I'm going to only tippy toe into this conversation.

I would like to see the ability to get out of the ship to help repair the ship. I feel this expands on the theme of the "lone wolf". "You want something done right? Do it yourself!" Reminds me of Han Solo and Chewy doing all the repairs themselves.

I can just imagine hanging there in space after a battle repairing the ship or you don't make it home.

You could even make the repairs like the solar panel cleaning contracts. You need to check various sytems (sweep them over) etc. Heck, add some colored duct tape to customized your ride!

Or even keep the automated repair system option in the game but if the auto repair system fails you have to get out and fix the repair system.

I do understand there needs to be a careful balance of fun vs game mechanics. I don't want players getting annoyed they need to go extra vehicular just to fix a ship. The automated repair system does take up a slot of equipment. If a player chooses not to equip the repair system then they are stuck doing the repairs themselves, at least to the point they can fly back to a base for full repairs.

Very funny LOL! Why would I hire an engineer without a repair system, and if the repair system breaks, Heck send the engineer out the airlock to fix it! Let the engineer work for his pay, but I won't get out my ship myself in the middle of space to repair anything! What if you get dammaged near a star or high radiation nebulae ....etc. I know that some of you however would get out to see if there is some beer floating out there! ROFL!:P:P:P:P:P

[Edited on 7-28-2009 by Maarschalk]

[Marvin]

By Walt:

What if some planets had very different mineral makeups, so mining them yielded different and more profitable commodities? Maybe there could even be some uninhabited planets that are dangerous to fly to but contain some valuable stuff to mine.

Someting similar can already happen ... in fact, if you spend a little time (okay ... a lot of time) exploring the galaxy, you might find out that there are things just as good. Planets can have a lethal atmosphere. But they can also contain treasure ... placed somewhere on the surface. Similar to some of the quest beacons. You just gotta go hunting ... and it's a big galaxy.

[Waltorious]

Originally posted by tha_rami


1) Personally, I'm still opposed to walking around. Think about it, the only thing you'll add is interface that does little more than add eyecandy. The trade-off is that a lot of work will have to be spent there instead of on more important parts of the game.

That is a good point. I definitely think there should be some way to get news from other systems though. Maybe just add it to the news console, but only when you're docked somewhere? Also I still would love to see the systems given a little more personality... I'll see if I can come up with some other ways to do that.

4) Actually, there are a lot of systems that just require a tiny bit of work to make friendly near Sapphire. The deeper systems are harder because they're one of the few things that give a feeling of progression .

True, but I didn't know which ones these were, because there was no way to find out without actually traveling there. And I definitely like that the deeper systems are tough, I'm not suggesting removing the challenge there, it just seemed to me that danger ramped up pretty fast as soon as I left Sapphire.

That's another thing.... it's pretty clear from the forums (and my own experience) that new players' first impression is that combat is too hard. But then we practice more, and get the hang of it, and it's not a problem anymore, and eventually we want an even bigger challenge. I think that this could be solved with some minor adjustments to the learning curve. Even just adding a little more combat training to the training mode would help, especially covering drifting tactics and evading missiles.

Someting similar can already happen ... in fact, if you spend a little time (okay ... a lot of time) exploring the galaxy, you might find out that there are things just as good. Planets can have a lethal atmosphere. But they can also contain treasure ... placed somewhere on the surface. Similar to some of the quest beacons. You just gotta go hunting ... and it's a big galaxy.

That's awesome. Don't get me wrong, I love the secret stuff in the game and I absolutely think it should be kept and possibly even expanded upon. The problem is that I think the non-secret stuff gets a little boring. There should DEFINITELY be secret planets with hidden treasure and stuff that's really tough to find. But I think that the standard, known planets could still offer some more variety. For instance, I got excited the first time I visited Fauston because one of the planets purportedly had methane lakes. But when I landed and found a lake, I found it actually was just a water lake. And mining the surface just yielded the same minerals as everywhere else. It feels like secret worlds have cool stuff but the standard planets are all the same.

One more thing... even if getting out the ship doesn't end up being a good idea, I still think that cities could be made to be different than stations by adding some more options. Like maybe some special planet-only contracts, where you need to go destroy a rebel building or something. That could be pretty cool and give people more reason to land.

[MMaggio]

Well said Marvin! Seems that often players just want to shoot at something or do contracts all day instead of following the true spirit of the game and explore.
By limiting yourself to just doing contracts the game becomes just another pretty "scripted sim". There are hundreds of planets out there with "goodies" like you described, if only they looked.

[tha_rami]

You should try and visit the system of Serene, I think its near Sierra. I designed that system to be 'different' and as alive as Sapphire just to see if it was possible. Was way back, but I would like to know what you think of it .

[Exeneva]

I haven't bought or played Legends yet, but back when I played Renegades, I remember exploring about thirty or so uncharted planets, and even then I'm sure I didn't find all the secrets on them.