Navigation right-click zoom

Karmasaur · Post by **Karmasaur** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:16 pm

Im so confused, that I hardly know how to formulate an answerable question. So when answering, dont be shy to dumb it down for me. Ive read the manual twice now, scoured the forums, and asked in multiplayer. I am forced to ask here.

1) the grid sections. Vice has mentioned that the smallest boxes on the map are sectors. What then are the groups of four sectors? They have a thicker box around them. Is that a quadrant? And when 16 sectors are in a group, they have yet again a thicker box around them. Is any of that important to navigation? And last of all, the map itself has a thick gray box around it. I assume that is what my sensors and science officer can see. Is all navigation on a sector level?

2) I see that star systems have coordinates as well. That cant well be on the same system as the sectors. There would be billions of them from one star to another. These second coordinates, when and how do I use them?

3) Trying to autopilot to Sol starsystem. It has coordinates -1050, -5050. Do I just type that into the nav at the top of the map and hit autopilot? I tried it, (buggered with it for hours even) and got nowhere. How do I autopilot? Is -1050 what goes in the X box and -5050 what goes in the Z box?

4) The X, Y, and Z, I have an idea what are. Three axis. But what are the SX, SY, and SZ? When do I use them. And is the X,Y,Z system only for local navigation, or for zapping from star to star? And why do the star systems only have two coordinates rather than three? Are they all exactly on the glactic ecliptic, eliminating the Y axis?

I will probably have more questions as things get answered. But this is a start. I really want to understand this game. Thank you ahead of time, for those people patient enough to clear this up for me.

-K

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:20 pm

SX/SY/SZ refer to Sector X/Y/Z. Each sector, then, is divided into X/Y/Z values.

For example, Sol is at sX -1050, sY 0, sZ -5050.

The thicker lines in the navigation map have little to no meaning indeed.

PingBosun · Post by **PingBosun** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:28 pm

Karmasaur,

It does take a little getting used to but it works. As the_rami says the SX, SY and SZ vlaues are the sector, so Sapphire, the centre of Evochron is in sector SX0, SY0 and SZ0. The X,Y,Z part are the x,y,z, position within each sector.

Maybe a bit of MP and it will all come clear. I hope to MP later tonight if you are interested.

Karmasaur · Post by **Karmasaur** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:01 pm

I will be on multiplayer late tonight european time. I will see who I can rustle up.

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:41 pm

I'm still messed up with the difference between x and sx etc. I keep getting answers about sectors and boxes. All I want to know is which of them is the co-ord for a destination, like Sol, or any main sector - I presume the other is to fine tune a destination within wherever!

I made the presumption that as X,Y,Z come first that they are the main destination co-ords. Of course, if Vice is American then they'll probably be back to front!

PingBosun · Post by **PingBosun** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:24 pm

Ravenfeeder

SX, SY and SZ are the co-ordinates for the centre of a sector. X,Y,Z are the co-ordinates within that sector or as you say, fine tuning.

So the centre of Evochron (Sapphire) is SX=0, SY=0 SZ=0, but within that sector you can make the X,Y,Z more or less any value you want , which will be the co-ords within Sapphire.

Assuming you are in the UK, then the SX,SY and SZ are like the first part of a post code (AB1) while the exact spot within that post code is the X, Y, Z (1BC) so the exact spot is SX, SY, SZ X, Y, Z - AB1 1BC.

Does that help?

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:28 pm

1 - Sectors are sectors, clusters of sectors are just clusters of sectors and don't have special names. Sectors are cubes of space and use the SX, SY, and SZ values to specify which cube its referring to. Inside cubes are the coordinates, which use the X, Y, and Z values. Coordinates 0,0,0 would be exactly in the center of a sector, any sector.

Yes, the thick gray box at the edge is the limit of your nav sensors.

Navigation uses both sectors and in-sector coordinates. The sector gives you the large cube of space to specify and the coordinates give you an exact point inside that sector/cube.

2 - Solar system locations are given in sectors. Inside that sector and nearby sectors is where you'll find specific planets, stations, stars, etc. So use the first set of coordinates to pin down the sector cube, then use the second set of coordinates to specify an exact location within that sector cube.

3 - SX = SectorX, SY = SectorY, SZ = SectorZ, so you'd need to enter those Sol coordinates in the SX, SY, and SZ fields to get the right sector location. Then yes, activate the autopilot and it will take you there if you have the fuel. As you get closer, within nav sensor range so you see object in the Sol system on the map, you may want to turn off the autopilot and start to fine tune your jump point(s) with in-sector coordinates.

4 - Think of X, Y, and Z as local navigation within any sector. Yes, most solar systems are near the galactic ecliptic, giving them an SY value of 0 or near 0.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:02 pm

You know what? If it was confusing to me before, it's even more so now.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:06 pm

Also, in doing the beacon quest, you use the sector coordinates for finding "undocumented" areas of space. In other words, you enter the coordinates into SX, SY, and SZ.

Note 1: Normally, SY = 0 (zero), as Vice mentioned, above.

Note 2: When entering a set of undocumented coordinates, you can usually leave X, Y, and Z at zero (0).

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:16 pm

Thanks Ping - I've asked that question a few times, just got the geek answers. Sure, the people replying knew exactly what they were writing about, just that it meant nothing to me. Got it now, the SX etc are for the main destination, and the X etc are for the fine tuning.

That'w why, in MP, I could never find anyone.

It's still strange, to me, that in the nav map, that the SX (minor co-ords) come up first - I guess it's a bit like the mm/dd/yyyy instead of the rest of the world normal dd/mm/yyyy!

PingBosun · Post by **PingBosun** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:43 pm

Raven - you need to ask Vice that although in fairness the navigation takes the form like the post code, Big bit first, little bit second or Course Tuning first, fine tuning second. Using that concept it all works out OK.

Anyway - happy to help as NS always are!!

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:45 pm

Who are you calling, "normal".
This side of the world has it right. "WE" are normal.

PingBosun · Post by **PingBosun** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:48 pm

Now this is a discussion I really do love!!!!

Two nations separated by a common language!!!

Post by **Vice** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:59 pm

How about some visual aids

This first image shows how sectors are layed out. It's just space divided into cubes:

The sector cubes themseves use the same coordinates structure for each direction within their borders. X = left and right, Y up and down, and Z for ahead and behind.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:34 pm

Ok, that's all well & good because "we" are viewing the cube from the "front"? But it's when you are in the middle of the cube that my eyes start to roll back into my head.
Add to that, how do you know which way you are facing and you could be upside down as well! And how do you know if you are upside down?
At that point by brain starts remembering the theme music to "The Rifleman", an obscure TV series from the 60's.
Obviously it's me, since hundreds of players understand it well enough to get around.
Me, I'll just stay in Sapphire, thank you.

Post by **Vice** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:18 am

Add to that, how do you know which way you are facing and you could be upside down as well! And how do you know if you are upside down?

You use the compass and the pitch ladder:

Compass heading:

0 = Forward on Z and SZ
90 = Right on X and SX
180 = Reverse on Z and SZ
270 = Left on X and SX

Pitch ladder:
+90 = Up on Y and SY
-90 = Down on Y and SY

Then of course, everything in between for fractional angles/directions.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:02 am

Bless you sir. Thank you.

Karmasaur · Post by **Karmasaur** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:43 am

Now that all the smart people are involved:

What is all the technical data on the left side of the navigation panel. There is a vertical column of numbers and what not. Im sure its terribly important.
-K

Post by **Vice** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:23 pm

What is all the technical data on the left side of the navigation panel. There is a vertical column of numbers and what not. Im sure its terribly important.

If you're referring to the details in this image:

It provide some useful information. The top box highlights the sector and coordinate location the mouse pointer is at on the map. When in the above view, you will see the X, Z, SX, and SZ values displayed. When in the rear view, you will see the X, Y, SX, and SY values displayed. The 'Range' value is simply the level of zoom.

The lower box indicates the range of your Fulcrum Drive (FD Range) and the distance to the point you've selected from your current position (Distance). This can help you gauge if a selected jump point is within the range of your jump drive. In the example image above 10 S stands for 10 Sectors, 2000K stands for 2000000 coordinate units. And the distance to the selected waypoint is 0 sectors and 11K away.

[Edited on 7-10-2009 by Vice]

Karmasaur · Post by **Karmasaur** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:33 pm

That was the one. Thanks Vice.

By the way. I found out part of why I was having so much trouble with auto pilot. Oddly enough, swearing and threatening the machine with a foul demise, dont help. What DOES help, is shutting off the nav window with F1. Entering the coordinates and punching the autopilot button are only a precursor. Once the window is closed and the jumps start, you can open it again.
-K

redviking · Post by **redviking** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:57 am

Since we're on the topic of confusion in the Navigation room...
I'm not sure if this is a bug or just that I'm out of scanner range, but sometimes when I right-click to zoom on a planet or station that I can see on the nav map, it disappears and all I see are black sectors. In that case I'm stuck with just manually, clumsily setting my nav point (instead of the auto-set right click method) even though it's a place I've visited many times before. Is this normal or something wrong?

Thanks

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:31 pm

That usually happens when you click on a target that's out of plane ... meaning, it's either above or below you.

Space has three dimensions. Consequently, when you click on a target while viewing the map from above (along the X-Z axis), your cursor might not be aligned with the X-Y axis. Ergo, you need to left-click on your target, flip the map, then left-click on your target again. Now your cursor is aligned in three dimensions ... so flip back to the overhead view and right-click to center the target.

DennyMala · Post by **DennyMala** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:56 am

Right clicking should set all three cohords right on the object though.

Since you pick a target on the map, all three dimensions should be taken into account.

Maybe a modification to the next version....

vilehenchman · Post by **vilehenchman** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:17 pm

I've actually seen the same thing as redviking. I've been at Rivoch station and wanted to jump to another spot so I open the nav window, zoom out a bit, right-click on my destination sector (any of the stations in the SY=0 plane) and there will be nothing on the map. It doesn't happen all the time, but once in a while it will happen and I have to guess where I would like to jump (usually near a corner) so that I don't hit anything. It hasn't caused me any grief so I haven't mentioned it yet, but it seems like others are seeing it too.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I also hit the button to rotate the map so I can see the X-Y sectors and still see nothing.

P.S. Vice, this game is amazing!

[Edited on 8-26-2009 by vilehenchman]

redviking · Post by **redviking** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:20 am

Thanks for the help. After I did the zooming and map flipping, I had no trouble with finding things to right click on when zoomed in.

Last night I experienced my first spectacularly fatal misjump into the pointy tip end of Talison warzone station. It was a clumsy finish after a successful group waypoint patrol. Too bad I hadn't saved it. I seem to misjump into some stations more than others. Is it because I need a navigator, dumb luck, or that I need to rightclick on rearview too? (I rightclicked on the station every time but still bump into it about 40% of the time, nonfatally, instead of coasting right into the docking bay as usual)