Primitive city

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:32 am

Hey everyone, I have been kicking around some ideas in my head to replace the cities in EL. I have a few avenues from which I have decided I could approach this project, and have even started laying the foundation (get it? I'm so clever) by creating a part of the city center. However, I am not sure if my ideas are looking they way they should in game, and being the not-so-creative person I am (the username should give that away), I have kind of run into a brick wall. Then I thought, "why not ask the community for their ideas?" So, what would you, the esteemed community of Evochron Legends, like to see in a modded city? What would you expect the city of the future to look like?

Here is where I am at:
I imagine colonial cities on planets would not have a traditional road system. Rather, the buildings would be connected to each other via enclosed elevated maglev systems, looking something like the downtown of northern cities such as Minneapolis. The buildings themselves would not look much different than our own, with perhaps the primary differences being size and shape as stronger materials are discovered and superior building processes developed. The city would not have a base as we see in EL currently, because that would take up too many resources with little benefit, so the look would essentially be the underlying terrain with buildings popping out of the scenery and bridged together with walkways/tramways/whatever 25th century man can think of.

I would love to hear any and all opinions about future cities so I can incorporate them and hopefully make them look better. Consider this a brain-storming session: no idea is too stupid or far-fetched; I want any and all ideas about what you would like to see. Just keep in mind that I have to keep the cities to a few thousand polies, so don't get too detailed on me.

Thanks in advance.

-Accountant

*I want to let everyone know in advance that, though my full intention is to complete this project, there is a chance it will not come to fruition. My summer is currently wide open, but that can change if I get an internship, in which case this project would be forced on the back-burner. Hopefully, though, if that happens, Warsign (or anyone else) could still use the ideas in this thread when he resumes his modding activities.

Tachyon · Post by **Tachyon** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:46 am

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have Colonies protected by a Dome on planets with extreme climates / non-breathable atmospheres. If you've played Frontier/Frontier First Encounters, you'll know what I mean.

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:59 am

I would imagine that a mag lev would be a bad idea... light structure in high winds = uh oh

(also, in the name of polycounts!)

I'd like to see a screenshot of what you have?

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:10 pm

On Planets with Oceans How about an underwater city you could dock at! That would be neat!;)

dogeddie · Post by **dogeddie** » Wed May 27, 2009 1:55 pm

Lots of strip malls with video rental/tanning shops. Also plenty of Taco Bells and such.

Tachyon · Post by **Tachyon** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:11 pm

Originally posted by dogeddie
Lots of strip malls with video rental/tanning shops. Also plenty of Taco Bells and such.

Thank you Dogeddie, but we already have Las Vegas on Earth

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:13 pm

I think what I'd like to see more than anything is a city I could fly through, with tall skyscrapers providing cover for the occasional combat.

I know nothing about polycounts and such, so maybe this is out of the question. But something similar to what we saw in Star Wars Episode 2 comes to mind.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:18 pm

Originally posted by Zaphod
I think what I'd like to see more than anything is a city I could fly through, with tall skyscrapers providing cover for the occasional combat.

erm kinda already have that, you can fly between the buildings and have dogfights

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:24 pm

Thanks for the ideas, guys! Keep them coming!

Just to clarify my idea of maglev: the system itself would be in a covered tunnel-like bridge connecting the buildings, so it would not be subject to outside forces.

@Eclipse:
Good idea about oval-ness. Would you expect to not see many buildings if some are mostly underground, then?

@Tachyon
Regarding the dome, it is a great idea, but I do not think I could create transparent textures for the city, so I am not sure how easy it would be to implement. It is a nice idea, though.

@Maarschalk
Since city placement is predetermined, I am not sure how possible that would be. Certainly would be awesome to do, though!

@dogeddie
Lol, thanks. I agree with the Taco Bells, though. Maybe a Qdoba...

@Zaphod
I'll google some images for Star Wars Episode 2 to get an idea. It's been a while since I've seen that one.

I do like the idea about flying through skyscrapers, though. I will try to manipulate spacing of the buildings to make that a reality.

Daedalao asked for a screenshot, so here is one from Metaseq. Don't expect much yet, though:

My primary idea was to create a central hub with the landing zone. Connected with large transport lines are three smaller hubs, with all of the buildings connected to the various hubs and each other.

And for the record, it is difficult to come up with unique and interesting building designs while keeping polycount low...

Again, keep the ideas coming! I would also appreciate critiques on my current plans. Love it, hate it, ambivalent?

-Accountant

EDIT:
The buildings are not that tall ingame. I have to make them that tall to take elevation changes into account.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by Accountant]

Post by **Marvin** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:20 pm

The "space port" could be covered instead of out in the open. Maybe put it off to one side of the city (for noise abatement) and linked by land shuttle ( hey, a new mission ... land shuttle pilot!).

It would be nice to have more than one design. The domed city for planets with a hostile environment, a city of towers for more Earth-like planets, and flat cities that are really entrances to "caves of steel."

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:36 pm

I was curious to do one as well. Is it possible to have more than one in the game at once? If so, I'll model something out as well.
And... does the dock have to be in the center?
One that I wanted to do that may not even be possible depending on the draw distance is start a really huge structure that you can see from orbit, turn that into a space elevator and build an artificial ring (or probably just one segment).
If it were possible to figure out how big the planets were, we could do really silly things like build a dome huge enough to be a Dyson Sphere, where you fly inside and then dock on the inner surface.

So far that looks awesome! I love the whole asymmetry of it.
Some buildings of much lower heights might help a bit to give it that crowded city feel, but aside from that it looks great! What kind of textures are you thinking of?

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:00 pm

Earl, model it anyway... make vice add support

and as for the screenshot... what you have looks pretty good so far. What's the actual polycount from Metaseq? (faces/vertex count would be awesome.) I'm liking where you're going with it.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by Daedalao]

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:15 pm

@Dock being in the center
The dock, as far as I can tell, does not have to be in the center of the city, but it does need to be in the center of the workspace. To keep the dock off to one side just model the city off to one side of the dock.

I do not think it is possible to have more than one in the game at once. Maybe Vice could add support for that, but I do not know how that would be handled or if it is possible.

I like the asymmetry, too, which is kind of why I wanted to mod a city. Right now the cities feel too squarish and symmetrical.

I may add smaller, shorter buildings later on depending on polycount of the finished product.

@Earl
Interesting idea. You should experiment with draw distances and see what happens.

@Daedalao
Currently, 1,117 vertices and 1,032 faces. I am trying to limit faces to between 2,000 and 3,000

-Accountant

EDIT:
@Earl
I want to use textures that look similar to the ones on the Spacestations. I want the cities to fit in with the rest of the game.

[Edited on 5-27-2009 by Accountant]

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:25 am

Do all cities have to have the same plan? I would like to see some with tall glass spires on quiet, rich worlds and low, clustered domes on poorer or inclement worlds.

SVB · Post by **SVB** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:10 am

I'd love all of this.
Maybe also having Planetary rings that shoot you down if its a hostile planet (actually SHOOT YOU) or maybe turrets on the ground that you need to destroy

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm

Maybe we could have some dialogue from the City, like granting permission to land or requesting assistance.

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:30 pm

Would it be feasible to cover the entire surface of a planet with multiple cities, all set side by side, so that the entire planet is one big cyberpunk nightmare?

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:36 pm

You could also make a variety of technology leveled cities. You could have medieval castles, jungle treehouses, igloo buildings, desert tent-cities, adobe brick buildings.

Also consider alien cultures, whose buildings might be composed of green slime, insectoid "hives", intricate glowing metal sculpture, etc.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:25 pm

Originally posted by Knight Rider
Maybe we could have some dialogue from the City, like granting permission to land or requesting assistance.

I like that idea! Even if there wasn't any actual activity, just to hear the city grant landing permission or to ask if we had a certain cargo type. "Permission to land cranted. Do you have any foodstuffs?"
This request could be tied to the changing economy and the request for the most needed commodities.
Seems simple, but then, what do I know?:)

dogeddie · Post by **dogeddie** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:42 pm

Originally posted by Nigel_Strange
Do all cities have to have the same plan? I would like to see some with tall glass spires on quiet, rich worlds and low, clustered domes on poorer or inclement worlds.

I like this - varying the size/types of cities

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:01 pm

Originally posted by Accountant
@Dock being in the center
The dock, as far as I can tell, does not have to be in the center of the city, but it does need to be in the center of the workspace. To keep the dock off to one side just model the city off to one side of the dock.

@Earl
Interesting idea. You should experiment with draw distances and see what happens.
EDIT:
@Earl

I want to use textures that look similar to the ones on the Spacestations. I want the cities to fit in with the rest of the game.

I think I will, but I had another idea first for something really unusual. No spoilers, but maybe after the weekend I'll have something as I'm currently unemployed, lol.

[Edited on 5-29-2009 by Earl]

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:37 am

http://azurewitch.deviantart.com/art/Ne ... -124417352

Ok, here's what I have so far... It's intended to be very large... Inspired by all those conceptual massive buildings they're always planning over in Dubai... Not really suitable for a replacement for every city out there, but it we were to get multiple cities supported, I see it as a commercial center. It would be awesome to do multiple versions as well, with it under construction, maybe rearranged, or even destroyed and rusted up.
The buildings aren't really that pretty to save on poly count, but there's a lot going on so I think it's a good trade. It came out to (so far) 1700 triangles, which leaves some room for more ideas I guess.
I'm going to make up for the simpler mesh with some really REALLY good textures, hopefully.

Still haven't got it into the game because I haven't found a .x exporter for my Maya yet. Anyone out there happen to have one(6.0)?
If this pans out I have a lot more ideas....

dogeddie · Post by **dogeddie** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:03 pm

Nice work, Earl. Cool futuristic look.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:22 pm

Looks great so far, look forward seeing end product!

Accountant · Post by **Accountant** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:25 pm

Nice work! I really like the creative thought put into it. Hopefully you can find a converter soon. The more mods the better, and it looks like you have some good ideas!

-Accountant