Could we have in-game avatars?

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:07 pm

Just curious if in the future, perhaps with an expansion, we could leave our ships when docked at stations, walk around the station, and interact with other players, etc?

Is that within the limits of the game's engine?

Post by **Vice** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:17 pm

No, not currently. It would require an entirely separate FPS game system added to the space-sim, entirely separate environments created for various stations, cities, etc.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:38 pm

I've seen that in other games... Some tried and IMO completely failed to add a FPS type game into the space sim. The FPS part in one indy title for example sucked.

Other games have done it and the stations were kinda small and all you'd do is walk from one vendor to another, maybe to a bar and pick up contacts.

But when that's all you do, it doesn't seem worth the time, and effort to add in.

Post by **Vice** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:56 pm

Yes, that's a good point and similar things have been discussed in the past about the idea. Some points that come to mind:

- Evochron is a space-sim, not a first person shooter/blended genre game. Its design intent doesn't involve characters (not to mention the animation, character models, weapons, entirely different control system, environment system, etc required to support such a system, which would be a very daunting task for questionable benefit in such a game).

- With spacecraft being so readily available and such great distances in the environment to explore and travel, walking on foot or in a ground vehicle could be somewhat limiting, tedious, outdated and leave you very vulnerable.

- Merging such split gameplay systems risks reducing the quality of one or the other, or both (jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none scenarios). I don't want to have to compromise the time I have for the space-sim part of the game to support and develop an FPS mode. If I were to work on such an FPS system, I'd likely want to develop it as a stand-alone game.

- Forcing players to contend with a mode they don't like to accomplish something in a game is simply a negative. Space-sim players often want to fly a spacecraft and don't want to be required to play an entirely different game mode to accomplish a goal they could otherwise complete with the gameplay they prefer. As an option, it's not a big deal, but the players interested in such an FPS option often expect to have unique options and objectives that can only be accomplished in the FPS mode.

With that said, I'm not totally against the idea, I'm actually intrigued by the concept. But I suspect I'd rather focus a game's design on one system or the other in dedicated games. Although I think blending certain RTS elements in with a first person space-sim has some fun potential application/gameplay options.

Draakjacht · Post by **Draakjacht** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:31 pm

I think it has fun potential, but if I had to expand on anything in the game, I would focus on equipment, missions and ships. Not only does it fit with the game as it is, but it enhances what we're all looking for. And as many combinations as you can make with chassis and equipment, it would be interesting to see that continually evolve.

Besides, people are already pitching new mission ideas. I think it would be cool to go with those.

Vanor · Post by **Vanor** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:16 pm

- Merging such split gameplay systems risks reducing the quality of one or the other, or both (jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none scenarios).

That's the biggest thing to me. I've seen a few games try to do it all. Spacesim, FPS, vehicular combat, ect... and every one of the types of combat frankly sucked.

The Spacesim was not very involved or interesting, the FPS was very lame compared to other titles out there, vehicular combat was a bad cross between the FPS and Sim game...

As much as I'd love to see what I consider the holy grail of games... Space, Air, Land (both FPS and vehicular) ect... all done extremely well and each mode very engaging. I don't think anyone can really pull it off.

Maybe if you got a dev team the size of Blizzard it maybe could happen, but even major dev's like that have tried and failed to put too much into a single game.

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:29 pm

That notorious spacesim that everyone's hinting at here was an atrocity, definitely.

I tried so hard to make myself even consider that game tolerable. But to no avail.

I don't think that an FPS would work well, either. But what I think could work, is simply utlize the space station essentially as an animated chat room. Of course your character could purchase equipment and supplies there, as well.

But I wouldn't expect combat in that environment. If two pilots got into an argument, they could simply say "Get in your cockpit, and I'll see you outside"

Otherwise, I just think it would be a nice touch to be able to have a customized avatar, for other players to at least have a virtual face to put with your name, etc.

Something like this, for example:
[url=http://]www.chamberofchat.com/home/home.asp?mi=hHome[/url]

Okay, I'm no good at posting links, apparently.

[Edited on 5-8-2009 by Zaphod]

[Edited on 5-8-2009 by Zaphod]

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:33 pm

Hello Zaphod, welcome to the forum and the Sim.

Draakjacht · Post by **Draakjacht** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:40 pm

Okay, I think a simple chat environment wouldn't be terrible. More work animation wise, but not a bad idea. Plus if two people wanted to meet and chat without the need for watching Reds or whispering (assuming all on-station chats are limited to the local environment) it would provide the venue. Would be nice alternative to paying stations for safe chat grounds.

Post by **Vice** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:45 pm

Ah yes, that is a valid point. Although you can meet in secure locations now for such chat (yes, even for free near stations that charge fees). Some players just haven't discovered how yet. Other means involve meeting inside a nebula or in an asteroid cave.

Glock36 · Post by **Glock36** » Fri May 08, 2009 10:07 pm

Vice...I want buyable flyable planets and I want to own my own system so that I can control who gets in and how much they pay. I also want a free brand new corvette C6 w top end engine (dual overhead cams per bank of cylinders and dual turbos) and European specs. I want to fling my gas guzzling polluting super car in the face of AlGore. I want this coded by next week. Screw the police. I also want in game avatars.

Polymorph · Post by **Polymorph** » Fri May 08, 2009 10:19 pm

Originally posted by Glock36
Vice...I want buyable flyable planets and I want to own my own system so that I can control who gets in and how much they pay. I also want a free brand new corvette C6 w top end engine (dual overhead cams per bank of cylinders and dual turbos) and European specs. I want to fling my gas guzzling polluting super car in the face of AlGore. I want this coded by next week. Screw the police. I also want in game avatars.

Also we want to be able to build factories on planets, and laser defenses, and space stations and Death Stars and wormholes to anywhere.

(Speaking of which, I think the wormhole in Sol is WAAAY too close to the sun. Which is bad for me because believe it or not, I'm terrified of getting near stars. It took me 2-3 hours just to find someone to guide me into the wormhole.)

But on-topic: I don't think it would be a good idea to have FPS style avatars. Even icons next to the chat would be kinda cluttered, unless we were able to type more, like say 2-3 lines instead of 1.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Fri May 08, 2009 11:37 pm

You can already build wormholes to anywhere. And you can move the wormhole in Sol away from the sun.

Neat, eh?

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:00 am

I'm interested in the concept, as it relates to a project I'm currently working on. I'm curious to see how Space Trader: Merchant Marine plays, as it involves first person trading/combat. Realistically, creating interesting architecture, flora, fauna and environments would eat time away from development of the space aspect. Given an infinite amount of time and resources a company could pull this off.

Polymorph · Post by **Polymorph** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:12 am

Originally posted by Jeremy
You can already build wormholes to anywhere. And you can move the wormhole in Sol away from the sun.

Neat, eh?

You know what I mean.... in-game silly!

Draakjacht · Post by **Draakjacht** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:24 am

This place is becoming slick with slippery-slope ideas. I fear for my footing.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:13 am

There is no footing in Space, you just drift into the forces of Gravity! LOL:P

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat May 09, 2009 8:16 am

If anything, I liked that Vice said that RTS is more of a direction he's willing to go. If he can take Evochron or its universe anywhere near my long-time favorite game Urban Assault, I'd be absolutely tempted to buy him a villa with a Leviathan at real life size.

dogeddie · Post by **dogeddie** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:05 pm

One could consider something like Privateer - you don't actually move a character around in a first person sense, but there are different areas of a station one could visit with a click, which simply amount to different screens. An area for contracts, one for ship upgrades, etc. I think that would add a buttload of immersion. I don't know if that is possible without alot of hard work. I think the world has enough RTS space games already - I hope we don't go that route.

Draakjacht · Post by **Draakjacht** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:20 pm

RTS and Fantasy RPG are big right now. But RTS usually has a strong following and Fantasy ebbs and flows counter to Sci-Fi. So with the inundation of Fantasy, I can already see Sci-Fi games working the trend the other way around. I like the Privateer idea. In Privateer 2 I remember you could go chat with people at a bar. Rather than that per say, we could include the idea of player placed bounties via a bounty board.

Glock36 · Post by **Glock36** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:13 am

yea and the problem with slippery slopes is that once you start down them, you build up INERTIA. INERTIA has killed many a company.
(See General Motors)
Vice seems to be doing an excellent job of preventing this.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Sun May 10, 2009 4:32 pm

Inertia or momentum? I think the latter.

I like the Privateer idea too, but I liked it in Privateer. I'm not sure how it would fit into an Evochron game. Currently, the entire game is seamless (except for the shipyard). If you introduced something like that, you'd have to build in seams.

Now that I brought up the shipyard, maybe it's not such a difficult matter. You could have a 2d bar scene or something and other players could be represented by icons in the bar area. Maybe players would have the option of selecting a 2d avatar.

I do think that having art for different stops in the game would be an interesting way to give local flavor to different places in the game. They certainly did a good job of that in Privateer. When you docked, for instance, at a military base, it was a totally different experience from docking on a tropical planet.

However, that said, it would be very different from what we have so far, and it could make the game harder to maintain (with every part being polished) and download. Think of all the art files that would be added. I was just complaining on another chat about games getting up to 15GB.

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:08 pm

Nigel, the current method of doing things that cause games to get that large is excess of data that isn't really necessary... mainly normals and recorded dialogue. With a few changes, things could be different... however I like the evochron universe

Draakjacht · Post by **Draakjacht** » Sun May 10, 2009 9:04 pm

I'm not proposing that we change much. I only really want to see more mission types. That being said, I'm throwing alternative ideas and thoughts on the subject at hand around for, if nothing else, fun.

As for slippery slopes, they are logical fallacies. Never assume that because one thing is included that countless more will be. There are always reasons a progression will cease or slow.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sun May 10, 2009 9:19 pm

Another point against imagery is that it takes away even further from concepts like hot-docking and continious gameplay.