Planets and their mesosphere

udm · Post by **udm** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:34 pm

Hi everyone, how's it going! I just found out about Evochron Legends. I'm still trying it out, so my comments are reserved, but I have a question about planetary landing. I like the idea of being able to explore planets, but I'd like to hover about 500km above ground level, up there in the clouds, below the stratosphere. You know, like a hang glider. It appears the distance between the ground and the stratosphere is really quite short. Is there a mod that can increase this height, so that I can soar up there without worry of hitting the ground?

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:46 pm

Hi udm, Welcome to the Game and Forum.

No, I do not think there is. But if you put your IDS on inertial and thrust to 0 you will land on the planet without hitting the ground and exploding!;)

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:50 pm

Hello udm, welcome to the forum and the Sim. C U in MP sometime.

Hover thrusters, sounds like a good idea.

:)

udm · Post by **udm** » Fri May 01, 2009 3:27 pm

Hi both of you, thanks for the warm welcome! Yeah I'm actively looking for some gainful employment now, so when my next paycheck comes, I'm considering getting Evochron Legends. I've been putting off trying out the Evochron series for a while now, so imagine how surprised I was to find a new sequel to Evochron Renegades recently.

Ah well, does anyone know what units the altitude is measured in? Also are all planets the same ie. the distance between the stratosphere and the ground is equally short for all planets?

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by udm]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Fri May 01, 2009 4:01 pm

I do not know if there is a known unit used in this game like meters or feet! But the distances between stratospheres and the ground depends on the planet, so they are not the same for each planet, some planets do not have an atmosphere and therefore no stratosphere!;)

udm · Post by **udm** » Fri May 01, 2009 4:35 pm

Ah that's good to know. I was worried that all planets would be the same. Thanks!

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:43 pm

Erm, actually in my experience all planet class objects have atmo, moons do not however... I'm going to test a theory... actually Wasp89 might be able to provide some insight due to his orbital expirimentation.

Post by **Vice** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:46 pm

All planets do have atmospheres, with varying levels of pressure and weather. Moons have a mild gravitational pull, but no atmospheres.

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:53 pm

Well, after a quick test in the outer atmosphere (not sure, which sphere, but still in planetary avionics mode) you can kind of maintain a position but it requires constant user input with the IDS set to inertial... and a heavy usage of the X key

However, the closer to the center of the gravity well, the inertial thrusters no longer provide enough thrust to change your velocity.

[Edited on 5-1-2009 by Daedalao]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Fri May 01, 2009 9:16 pm

Originally posted by Vice
All planets do have atmospheres, with varying levels of pressure and weather. Moons have a mild gravitational pull, but no atmospheres.

In the game maybe, you no that!

In the real universe what is the defenition of a Planet versus Moon? Planets revolve around a Sun and moons revolve around the Planets if I'm not mistaken! If the defenition of a planet is that it has to have an atmosphere regardless of what revolves around what then I'm mistaken! I'll look it up! And I'll bet you that there are planets that have no atmosphere in the real universe! Maybe not in our solar system but surely some where out there!;)

Post by **Vice** » Fri May 01, 2009 9:36 pm

Yes, in the real universe, you'd likely find a variety of unique attributes. I would not take that bet, there may indeed be planets without atmospheres

Come to think of it, you could place moons in the game and use them as planets (even with unique textures), then you can have a virtual 'planet'/'planetoid' without an atmosphere.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:48 pm

(Maarschalk et al);

Mercury is not *considered* to have an atmosphere. It has an "exosphere" w/ trace amounts.

I don't think it is known definitively yet, but at a guess Pluto *probably* has no significant atmosphere.

Moons; Io and Titan (just off the top of my head)... I think Titan is the only local moon considered to have a "significant" atmosphere.

"Unique attributes"; there are bound to be unique *objects* that defy a simple classification system. Objects that orbit moons. Quasi-Frozen-Planet-Cometlike objects, and so forth.

Objects that fit "in between" categories, such as Jupiter (planet / brown dwarf).

Post by **Marvin** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:38 am

Originally posted by Vice:
Come to think of it, you could place moons in the game and use them as planets (even with unique textures), then you can have a virtual 'planet'/'planetoid' without an atmosphere.

The moon makes a good Mercury. And asteroids make good moons ... especially for moons like Phobos.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat May 02, 2009 4:36 am

Originally posted by Storm
(Maarschalk et al);

Mercury is not *considered* to have an atmosphere. It has an "exosphere" w/ trace amounts.

I don't think it is known definitively yet, but at a guess Pluto *probably* has no significant atmosphere.

Moons; Io and Titan (just off the top of my head)... I think Titan is the only local moon considered to have a "significant" atmosphere.

"Unique attributes"; there are bound to be unique *objects* that defy a simple classification system. Objects that orbit moons. Quasi-Frozen-Planet-Cometlike objects, and so forth.

Objects that fit "in between" categories, such as Jupiter (planet / brown dwarf).

Yeah, I forgot about the Planet Mercury with no atmosphere and the situation with pluto, I had read about it years ago! My daughter who got accepted to MIT refreshed my memory about mercury and the situation with pluto and some moons possibly having an atmosphere!;) And yes it is hard to clasify the abundance of objects that are unique in the universe!;)

udm · Post by **udm** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:54 am

I took a look at 2 other planets while playing the demo just now. Was a bit disappointed to find that the distance between the ground and clouds still isn't very far apart for each of them. I was hoping it'd take more than 20 seconds to hit the ground even when gently landing

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:48 am

Heh, all planets are similar in size, I think. However, as Vice pointed out, the atmospheres in different planets can have different attributes.

Larger atmospheres were proposed once, but you can imagine that many action-oriented players here didn't really like that idea as far as I recall.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:04 pm

Originally posted by Maarschalk
Yeah, I forgot about the Planet Mercury with no atmosphere and the situation with pluto, I had read about it years ago! My daughter who got accepted to MIT refreshed my memory about mercury and the situation with pluto and some moons possibly having an atmosphere!;) And yes it is hard to clasify the abundance of objects that are unique in the universe!;)

Oh, there's no doubt about Io and Titan. Definitely wouldn't want to visit those places if you have a lung ailment. And second hand smoke is supposed to be bad... of course if your ship needs to be cleared of mice and so forth...

Some of the other Jovian moons also probably have atmospheres, maybe also more Saturnian moons... its been a while since I've been that interested (generally its been a consistant hobby of mine since I was a teen - built two of my own reflector scopes).

Jupiter is an interesting object (probably NOT that rare, universe-wise, that is its type probably occurs in most planetary systems). "Just think, you could have been a star....". There are some scientists that insist on classifying the Sol system as a quasi-binary system because of Jupiter.

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by Storm]

Post by **Marvin** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:32 pm

Does Jupiter generate light? Any indication of fusion?

udm · Post by **udm** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:57 pm

Originally posted by tha_rami
Larger atmospheres were proposed once, but you can imagine that many action-oriented players here didn't really like that idea as far as I recall.

Ah then that explains it. Vice, I understand the Evochron games have always been quite moddable. Can something like this be modded in, or is it hardcoded?

Post by **Vice** » Sat May 02, 2009 6:50 pm

Ah then that explains it.

Yes, the size of planets has been balanced between being too small/unrealistic taking only a few seconds to descend and too large taking 10-20 minutes to descend. The current setup seems to generally get the fewest complaints with just occasional, relatively evenly numbered, 'they're too big' and 'they're too small' comments, so it's probably just about right for most players atm

A typical no-burn angled descent can take about 2-3 minutes, which seems to work out well for most and offers the intended tactical and resource recovery options.

Vice, I understand the Evochron games have always been quite moddable. Can something like this be modded in, or is it hardcoded?

Hard coded for now.

[Edited on 5-2-2009 by Vice]

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat May 02, 2009 6:57 pm

Originally posted by Marvin
Does Jupiter generate light? Any indication of fusion?

No, there is no definite indication of fusion (strong radiation and magnetosphere though); it would have needed much more mass when it was first formed to have become an actual star (approx 75 times more than it has now). But there are some small red dwarfs that are only about 30 percent larger than Jupiter. Over the past few decades more and more astronomers have conceded that Jupiter is a fairly typical brown dwarf, a "failed star", and some catalogues are now categorizing Sol system as (technically) a binary system.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Very interesting Storm, thanks for sharing this info with us!;)

udm · Post by **udm** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:36 pm

Thanks Vice for the information. I can see where the design decision comes from. Well hopefully in future iterations of Evochron, players get to mod these aspects too

darioampuy · Post by **darioampuy** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:36 pm

Originalmente escrito por Storm
Originally posted by Marvin
Does Jupiter generate light? Any indication of fusion?
No, there is no definite indication of fusion (strong radiation and magnetosphere though); it would have needed much more mass when it was first formed to have become an actual star (approx 75 times more than it has now). But there are some small red dwarfs that are only about 30 percent larger than Jupiter. Over the past few decades more and more astronomers have conceded that Jupiter is a fairly typical brown dwarf, a "failed star", and some catalogues are now categorizing Sol system as (technically) a binary system.

with pluto catalogued as a planetoid and jupiter as a brown dwarf, solar system is becoming smaller >.<

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:42 pm

Hi Darioampuy, Welcome to the Game and Forum!;)