Screen Tests

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:57 pm

In creating a galaxy from scratch, what type of entries are necessary to keep from getting an Error 31?

Local Nebula Backdrop And Reputation: I assume I need this entry. If I only have one system (to start with), will any of the values (listed in the readme or copied from the default file) work?

Local Ship Types: Again, with one system, will any of the listed values work?

Containers & Scenery Objects: The readme seems to indicate I need at least one of each ... per sector. Does that mean I'll need at least 10, one each, in a system of 10 sectors?

Also, is there any downside to copying and pasting container and scenery objects from the default "universedata" file?

Lastly, is there any limitation on any of the other entries ... can I leave some of them (like warp gates and stations) out?

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:00 pm

I think you should have one of each of the items. I'm not really certain about the container/scenery object thing, though.

Post by **Vice** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:36 pm

In creating a galaxy from scratch, what type of entries are necessary to keep from getting an Error 31?

Just make sure at least one of every object type is present somewhere in your universe and do not specify an image or mesh value that does not exist/is not available.

Local Nebula Backdrop And Reputation: I assume I need this entry. If I only have one system (to start with), will any of the values (listed in the readme or copied from the default file) work?

Should be fine. Make sure the player starts in a defined area of space. If not, it would risk a problem if no data is available for where the player spawns.

Local Ship Types: Again, with one system, will any of the listed values work?

Yes, should work fine.

Containers & Scenery Objects: The readme seems to indicate I need at least one of each ... per sector. Does that mean I'll need at least 10, one each, in a system of 10 sectors?

No. You just need at least 3 somewhere, but you don't have to have them in every sector or even every system. You could place 3 anywhere in your universe for testing.

Also, is there any downside to copying and pasting container and scenery objects from the default "universedata" file?

Nope, should work fine as long as there aren't conflicts/duplications.

Lastly, is there any limitation on any of the other entries ... can I leave some of them (like warp gates and stations) out?

You can leave them out, but make sure to include at least one of each somewhere in your universe, even if it's just in an unreachable location. The game needs at least one block of data for each object type as a foundation, but you don't have to actually use them in your universe as a reachable/useable object.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:07 am

:)Thanks, Vice ... I'll copy and paste your reply to my Readme file. Hopefully, I've seen the end of Error 31.

Edit: Ratz, I forgot a question:

Do the entries have to be in any specific order? Local Nebula Backdrop And Reputation and Local Ship Types apparently head each system ... is that necessary? What about planets? And entries associated with planets, like scenery objects?

2nd Edit: It works!

I put the Nebula Backdrop and Local Ship Types in order, before anything else (just to play it safe). The rest of the stuff, I copied and pasted until I had one of everything ... then put one star and a few planets where I wanted them.

And it worked. Not sure if I was lucky or if the order isn't really that important.

Thanks.

[Edited on 3-15-2009 by Marvin]

Post by **Vice** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:36 am

Do the entries have to be in any specific order? Local Nebula Backdrop And Reputation and Local Ship Types apparently head each system ... is that necessary? What about planets? And entries associated with planets, like scenery objects?

Not really (they key is to make sure at least one of every object type is present), although it's generally easier to manage a large file if the reputation and backdrop block is at the top of each system's section in the file. However, the order you put them in the file is the order they will be drawn on the nav map. So if you want to render an object's icon above something else (station over a large asteroid field for example), make sure the graphics you want in the background layer is listed above the icon you want in front.

Glad you've got it up and running now.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:49 pm

So if you want to render an object's icon above something else (station over a large asteroid field for example), make sure the graphics you want in the background layer is listed above the icon you want in front.

Does that in some way apply to when objects are rendered in space, too? For example, flying between Erato and Erato II, Erato comes into view at about 274k ... looking just a bit bigger than a star. Going the other way, Erato II doesn't show up until it appears much bigger ... at a closer range (about 10k closer, I think).

Concerning size and scale:

How big (maximum), in sectors (offset from 0,0,0), can a galaxy be?
How big can a system be?

Moon texture: When assigning a new texture, do you put the JPEG in a folder called "environment" ... similar to how you mod the cockpit? And do you give it a numerical filename or would the moon texture command look something like:

MoonText="luna"

Thanks again, Vice ... I really do appreciate your answers.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:05 pm

Originally posted by Marvin
Concerning size and scale:

How big (maximum), in sectors (offset from 0,0,0), can a galaxy be?

How big can a system be?

1. circa 2,000,00 sectors in each direction ( giving -2,000,000 - 2,000,000)
2. no limt really, just try not to make them overlap

Post by **Vice** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:20 am

Does that in some way apply to when objects are rendered in space, too? For example, flying between Erato and Erato II, Erato comes into view at about 274k ... looking just a bit bigger than a star. Going the other way, Erato II doesn't show up until it appears much bigger ... at a closer range (about 10k closer, I think).

The closest object at sector data update will be applied. Sector updates occur when the player jumps and crosses sectors.

How big (maximum), in sectors (offset from 0,0,0), can a galaxy be?

Technically an integer limit, around 2-billion in a given direction. But problems would likely surface before then and I'd suggest keeping the size around 100,000 sectors or less for SX, SY, and SZ positive and negative. Larger universes can also cause delays during loading and map refreshes, so some balance is recommended.

How big can a system be?

Up to the size of your entire universe/galaxy if you want.

When assigning a new texture, do you put the JPEG in a folder called "environment" ... similar to how you mod the cockpit? And do you give it a numerical filename or would the moon texture command look something like:

MoonText="luna"

The environment folder isn't needed, just the filename specified in the code block. However, the system currently uses a global texture system for moons to reduce potential memory use and other problems, so the file would need to be applied for all moons. This may change in the future though, it's just a somewhat 'static' part of the system atm.

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:31 am

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the information (and patience) ... this is going to be fun.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:54 pm

This line I understand:

NebBackText=n

If I place a *.jpeg texture file in the "environment" folder and, (for example) where n=9, call the file "c9.jpg" then the program will use that texture for the nebula backdrop (in the example, NebBackText=9). But I have a couple problems whenever I do it.

1. Changing the following values doesn't seem to change anything on the backdrop ...

NebBackXLow=
NebBackXHigh=
NebBackYLow=
NebBackYHigh=
NebBackZLow=
NebBackZHigh=

... the texture (the intended texture, anyway) is always displayed to the north, on the horizon, exactly the same size ... no matter what values I use.

2. A second nebula is always displayed 180 degrees out from the mod. This other nebula is not the modded texture but, instead, a default texture.

Is there a way to disable the second nebula?

Or, even better, is there a way to define it so that I can create a panorama effect by connecting two modded textures?

Post by **Vice** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:09 pm

1 - These values specify the borders of the area you are defining. Each value is the minimum and maximum coordinate location of the edge of the background (and reputation) area you are setting.

2 - Not currently, a second texture parameter might indeed be the best option. What I will do is add a parsing routine to check for two files in addition to the current single option. So if you want to use two texture, the entry would look like this:

NebBackText=file1.jpg,file2.jpg

It will be added for the next update.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:16 pm

Originally posted by Vice:

What I will do is add a parsing routine to check for two files in addition to the current single option. So if you want to use two texture, the entry would look like this:

NebBackText=file1.jpg,file2.jpg

It will be added for the next update.

Excellent, Vice. Thanks again.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:40 am

Hehe, that sounds like something that might have interesting usess.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:20 am

Hopefully it will allow me to overlay the Milky Way ... or, at least the main (hubward) part of it. Since I can't seem to find a full panorama, I'll probably need to fake the back (rimward) side.

Post by **Vice** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:30 pm

That will be available also. If you use one BMP image for the texture, the game will apply that as a single background texture covering the entire backdrop.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:16 pm

I assume that will be a new feature ... because I tried it with the current install and my Milky Way background looked like I was seeing it through the eyes of The Fly ... must've been at least 24 tiles. Consequently, I tried pasting it in as a nebula.

Now I will have the option to do it either way. Choices, choices. I guess I'll see which way works best.

Continued thanks, Vice.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:17 am

Yes, it requires some recoding and new coding on my part for the next update

Post by **Marvin** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:56 pm

I'll be watching for your next "patch" ... I've got a simple two-sided graphic ready to test the new nova mod. With luck, the two sides should wrap around and connect with each other at the Z-axis midpoint (Z=0, I guess).

Post by **Vice** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:27 pm

They may not touch as each sub-side is not a full half circle. So you could either feather the ends so they drop to black, or use the full background option with the single bmp image to wrap the entire thing around as one backdrop.

Post by **Vice** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:51 am

Here's a test build with the new features you can try out:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochron_legendsbtest.exe

Should work, but let me know if you run into any bugs with the new nebulae backdrop options.

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:25 am

Okay, it's downloaded. I'll install and give it a try ... then post some feedback by tomorrow (Wednesday) or Thursday (depending on how long it takes me to figure it out).

... or by tonight.

Edit: Sorry, Vice ... I couldn't get it to work.

Here's what I had pasted into the universedata file:

-Local Nebula Backdrop And Reputation
NebBackXLow=-400
NebBackXHigh=400
NebBackYLow=-10
NebBackYHigh=10
NebBackZLow=-400
NebBackZHigh=400
NebBackText=file9.jpg,file8.jpg
ReputationID=1
Reputation=0
-EndNebBack

What I got was what looked like the standard no. 8 background nebula in front of me and a big white block of nothing behind me.

I tried naming the graphics something other than c8 and c9 ... I tried just calling them 8 and 9 then, when that didn't work, I tried calling them file8 and file9. No luck either way.

I also tried changing the line NebBackText=file9.jpg,file8.jpg to read:

NebBackText=9.jpg,8.jpg
and
NebBackText=file9,file8
and
NebBackText=9,8

... not sure if I tested all the combinations against one another. Some of the time I got the white square and, at other times, nothing showed at all.

I also tried using one 1024x1024 bitmap for the star background but it still came out as a series of duplicate tiles.

[Edited on 3-25-2009 by Marvin]

Post by **Vice** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:24 pm

Ah, thanks for the description. Found a character that needed to be changed to properly enable the option. New build is ready:

http://www.starwraith.com/evochron_legendsbtest.exe

I tested it with a few textures and it worked, so it should be fully functional now.

I also tried using one 1024x1024 bitmap for the star background but it still came out as a series of duplicate tiles.

For that, you'd likely want to import a blank image for the star layer and then use the single texture option for the background nebulae with the star pattern and nebulae you want to use combined and spherically mapped (stretched at the top and bottom for mapping to a sphere).

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:16 pm

Originally posted by Vice: For that, you'd likely want to import a blank image for the star layer and then use the single texture option for the background nebulae with the star pattern and nebulae you want to use combined and spherically mapped (stretched at the top and bottom for mapping to a sphere).

That sentence truly boggles the mind.

I'll test the new build today. Thinking about it, I really do like your current star texture so I'll try to figure a way to feather the edges of the hubward and rimward halves of the Milky Way "nebula" mod. Something to compensate for what looks to be about a 40 degree gap between the two halves.

Post by **Vice** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:15 pm

Ah, ok, I'll be more specific:

Replace the stars.bmp texture with a blank 32X32 image to completely remove that star layer from the background. Then use a single large spherical texture (2048X2048 might be good) with the 'NebBackText=file.bmp' option. Include stars and the nebulae layer you want in the single texture.

Spherical just means the image is stretched at the top and bottom so when it is mapped to a sphere, you don't get jagged lines at the top and bottom of the background object.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:41 am

Since I wasn't exactly sure what to call my textures, I made the following tests ... with results as indicated.

NebBackText=file2.jpg,file3.jpg

2.jpg/3.jpg: default texture in front, white square in back
c2.jpg/c3.jpg: same as above
file2.jpg/file3.jpg: same as above
filec2.jpg/filec3.jpg: same as above

NebBackText=file2,file3

2.jpg/3.jpg: default texture in front, white square in back
c2.jpg/c3.jpg: same as above
file2.jpg/file3.jpg: same as above
filec2.jpg/filec3.jpg: same as above

NebBackText=2.jpg,3.jpg

2.jpg/3.jpg: default textures front and back
c2.jpg/c3.jpg: correct front texture, default back texture
file2.jpg/file3.jpg: default textures front and back
filec2.jpg/filec3.jpg: default textures front and back

NebBackText=2,3

2.jpg/3.jpg: default textures front and back
c2.jpg/c3.jpg: correct front texture, default back texture
file2.jpg/file3.jpg: default textures front and back
filec2.jpg/filec3.jpg: default textures front and back