New stars texture

Galnospoke · Post by **Galnospoke** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:05 pm

Yes, I am newbie but I play Frontier very, very long so this are my little propositions:

1) can leave ship like in X series - it is (imho) simple to program/implement but how fun it is, especially on planets - You feel really free.
2) change stars background - it is too... schematic imo. It looks unnatural, it is not like beauty of night sky.

What do You think?

spelk · Post by **spelk** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:41 pm

For the first request, it is a lot of coding work to add running around stations, for very little gain in terms of enjoyment, I'd personally like to see more effort put into expanding the core gameplay mechanics and online stuff, than add some pilot vanity run around thing..

On the second request, I'm happy with how it is to be honest, not sure what more you want, there is always going to be a 'back wall' of stars as such, and if creating them mathimatically rather than load huge image back drops makes the game leaner and meaner I'm not too bothered - the background stars look ok.. and some of the planets and asteroid belts coupled with the exotic nebulae and planetfall eye candy on offer, surely theres enough to be looking at that isn't just the "white noise" of the background stars?

Just my thoughts.. you did ask

Welcome to the StarWraith community, Galno..

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:52 pm

Yes, it is just an image.

Download customizing kit for Renegades and see what you can change.

I think most of them available for Legend.

Blackthorne · Post by **Blackthorne** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:56 pm

Actually, in the X-Series you could do pretty much JUST that - leave your ship (mostly for changing ships in space). No station interiors involved at that point. It was pretty much pointless beyond the changing of ships (which works completely different in E:L) and some vanity shots.

It would actually introduce another problem - scaling. The ship models in E:L are not "to scale", tbh. They are roughly the same size, and most of the time you're too far away or too busy to notics, but they don't scale very well with each other. That's okay as long as there is no reference point, but a pilot model would have to provide exactly that, an then the manure is about to impact on the ventilation system, visual design-wise.

(Lost in Flatspace got around that issue by packing everybody into pyramid-shaped survival pods, which worked rather nicely from the scale point of view, but is not what Galnospoke asked for.)

Space looks really a bit off - I assume that this is because there is a generic "star"-texture being used for the generic empty space. maybe reducing the density of those stars might help, it feels a bit busy right now.

Everything else would require an individual skybox, which can't be implemented - you see, we have no boxes, only limitless space in all directions. Besides the "empty space", all objects DO exist in game terms and can be interacted with.

-Blackthorne

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:00 pm

You can reduce density of stars in the options menu.

warsign · Post by **warsign** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:18 pm

Originally posted by Eclipse
For those interested in what it looks like out there:
http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/sc ... o0833a.jpg
http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/sc ... c0813e.jpg

There are trillions of stars out there, it really is a busy background.

Nice pictures...

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:46 pm

I agree the default starfield is too uniform, but it doesn't matter if we can change it (thanks for the info and that link!). The real sky seen in outer space is busy, but it's not that uniform. Ideally we'd see the galactic plane as a brighter band, and there would be large patches of space darker than others, due to dust clouds (so-called "dark" nebulae) occluding background stars.

Sun (or local star) glare also doesn't have quite as much effect as it should on the starfield, if the game is supposed to be representing a direct visual view out from a cockpit window. Most stars would disappear as you look towards a nearby bright star. You would only see the full starfield with the sun at your back, and no bright reflective objects nearby.

On the other hand, if what we're seeing is a synthetic view from sensors outside the ship, mapped onto a display inside the cockpit or some kind of direct neural jack, then the simulated view could be compensating for sun glare. That's always a useful work-around explanation for lack of full realism in games. Like those explosions you hear outside the ship.

For the EVA idea, I don't miss that from X3. It was fun zipping around in a space suit the first time I saw it in X3, but it got old pretty quick. I'd rather see future development spent in other areas, like a more intuitive and easy to use Nav map.

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:51 pm

I just downloaded that stars.zip file, and it's just a small tile. That's not enough to recreate a realistic background star pattern, and it explains why the background is repetitive.

Can the game handle larger image sizes? Would it wrap a single image over the full sphere, or would that cause too much distortion?

Nphyx · Post by **Nphyx** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:54 pm

I found the space walk option in X annoying, personally. To me it was 'realism' at the expense of gameplay - you might as well make me feed and take care of my character's bodily functions. The couple of minutes of scooting along in a space suit to jump into another ship that ship swapping entails is an annoying detour to the core functions of the game.

Blackthorne · Post by **Blackthorne** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:25 pm

Okay, I just fooled around a little.

I replaced the default star texture with one of the posted pictures (1280px Ã— 1350px) to see what the results would look like.

This looks far wierder in motion than on capture; space basically starts to glitter when you move.

(click for full resolution)

-Blackthorne

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:46 pm

Honestly, Vice pretty much nailed the looks of flying in space. If you want realism, for example, you'd see no nebula.

The only things that are off are the light effect Aguila mentioned and the black nebulae also mentioned. Besides that, it's pretty much all as it should be - I can't say I feel its uniform...

As for moving around outside my ship, I wouldn't like that at all. I so much prefer the 'always in cockpit' mode these games offer that I'd hate to see that lost to something as gimmick as moving around.

tk7223 · Post by **tk7223** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:43 am

I am happy with the look of the systems I've visited so far, space looks good to me, as do the solar and nebular effects. I would be ok with leaving the ship, if there was a purpose to do so. For now tho, I'd agree that I'd rather Vice spent time on refining other aspects of the game as the community requests.

krayzkrok · Post by **krayzkrok** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:23 am

Having a complex star background would also make it more difficult to see unique objects including containers that aren't targetable.

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:56 pm

Originally posted by krayzkrok
Having a complex star background would also make it more difficult to see unique objects including containers that aren't targetable.

That's true, although the nebula effects already do that, to some degree.

As a side note, isn't it a little odd that we're required to visually locate nearby containers? Our ships have a radar-like sensor that can lock onto enemy ships, including range to target. But containers are invisible to radar? Maybe it's just a game mechanic to make it more challenging, but it does seem weird that we have to locate containers visually.

Blackthorne · Post by **Blackthorne** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:05 pm

Originally posted by Aguila

As a side note, isn't it a little odd that we're required to visually locate nearby containers? Our ships have a radar-like sensor that can lock onto enemy ships, including range to target. But containers are invisible to radar? Maybe it's just a game mechanic to make it more challenging, but it does seem weird that we have to locate containers visually. [/quote]

They show up as purple blips. What you do is visually identify the exact nature of the object ("Yup. Another box. Inform Fleet HQ of these incredible news!")

Unfortunately, they're always boxes, which makes the mission seem slightly pointless. Imagine they were wrecks, and you'd have to get close enough to confirm the designation on the frame or type of cargo loaded - that would make much more sense, even though the basics would still be the same.

("Yup. Definitely what's left of Ensign Expendable's ship. Inform his mom of the bad news!")

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:29 pm

As a side note, isn't it a little odd that we're required to visually locate nearby containers? Our ships have a radar-like sensor that can lock onto enemy ships, including range to target. But containers are invisible to radar? Maybe it's just a game mechanic to make it more challenging, but it does seem weird that we have to locate containers visually.

Not really. To prevent pirates from getting access to containers, they've always been pretty well stealthed.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:46 am

I am looking into the looped background star texture issue for the next update. The current system is designed for efficiency more so than appearance and you can spot the looping pretty easily. What I plan to do is delete the current looped low poly background object and replace it with a fairly seamless sphere that uses a much higher resolution texture, like 1024X1024 so looping is far less noticeable. It will also have a benefit of offering a much higher detailed star background, far more dots with higher resolution. In terms of the feel of 'infinite' stars in the background, it should improve the look significantly. I haven't been too fond of the looped low detail look of the current design myself

krayzkrok · Post by **krayzkrok** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:34 am

Will it affect performance, Vice?

Post by **Vice** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:58 am

It shouldn't, just a change of shape and higher resolution texture. I'll also try to tune it so you can get a similar look to the current setup by using the 'Medium' star detail setting.

Centauri · Post by **Centauri** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:55 pm

Greetings lads!

First time poster/player, I am most impressed with this hidden gem.
Currently I have been playing around with the demo for now but I fully intend to grab the full version soon as possible.

In keeping with the topic I found an old texture I used in other space games when I modded and found it works well here. Not doing much in the way of modding lately as I am caught up in the E&B revival team. Hope you don't mind me offering my two cents worth from time to time.

See you in the universe ;-)

http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f387/ ... =stars.jpg

[Edited on 5-3-2009 by Centauri]

Venus · Post by **Venus** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:23 pm

the only moving around I would find interesting, or possibly useful, would be an EVA... planet moving around would be boring mostly... as their's nothing there... just building blocks or terrain. Its not like you can land, get out and go visit some place such as a bar or something.

Post by **Marvin** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:01 am

Originally posted by Eclipse:
For those interested in what it looks like out there:
http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/sc ... o0833a.jpg

Thanks, Eclipse. That photo might come in handy ... if any of the star systems I've mapped reach that far into space (and out of the Milky Way)

Ref: http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtop ... 429&page=2

[Edited on 3-26-2009 by Marvin]