Ship Hangars or Templates...

Post by **Vice** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:59 pm

Please vote for which you prefer. I am considering adding one or the other as a way to accomodate saving complex ship configurations. Each has advantages and disadvantages and some requests are kind of split between which one might be the better direction to go. So I wanted to post this poll to gauge what kind of interest the forum community has in either idea. Here is a description of each.

Templates. You would be able to store ship configurations in a list available in the shipyard. To build one, you would simply click on it and the configuration would be transferred to the shipyard as the design to build. This option has the advantage of letting you restore any ship design at any station that can build it, rather than being limited to only restoring a ship where you put it. This option might apply better with the game's overall 'take it with you' design and seems to be a popular direction based on feedback.

Hangar. A hangar option would be available in the shipyard that would let you park a ship for retrieval later. You would pay a rental fee on a cycle basis for each ship you store or hangar you use. Loaded equipment would be transferred from one to ship to the other when you swap. Drawbacks for this option are that you risk losing ships if you use custom universes (since station ID's may be different or some stations may not even exist), you can only retrieve ships where you put them, you will have to build another replacement ship immediately once you place your current model in the hangar, and you will likely need to save your profile every time you make a change to stored ships in a hangar.

Tpol · Post by **Tpol** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:14 pm

As many drawbacks as the hanger idea has, I still voted for hanger. My reasoning is that if I want to "store" let's say a fully tricked-out Leviathan and get a smaller, faster ship for a certain mission, I can go do my mission and then come back and quickly swap back into my Leviathan.

With the template method, to get my Leviathan back, I'll have to go battle through some pretty bad territory in my bug ship to get to a station that has Leviathans. Of course, I could always go into multiplayer and get some buds to help me survive through the hostile space to get to where there are Leviathans.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:24 pm

I agree with Tpol and voted for "hanger".

Kursah · Post by **Kursah** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:35 pm

I agree, I like the sound of the hangar idea, though I also really like the template idea for accessability, if you're a long ways away from your hangar, the template would be much faster as-far-as ship swaps. Though I'm still curious to a storage solution for resources, weapons, extra stuff, hell even a bank account/stock exchange might be interesting (though by no means necessary!).

Vote: Template

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:42 pm

Voted for templates. I'm not sure why or if these two ideas are incompatible, but since they seem to be I vote for templates.

I like being able to reload a ship design that I really liked without having to rebuild it all over again just because I switched ships for some reason.

Anyway, I'm betting you'd have to be really rich to be able to leave multiple ships lying around in hangars. Plus the hangar idea seems overcomplicated. >_>

Tpol, you have a good argument, but if you have a smaller, faster ship, you can just outrun the enemies.
Plus, there's not many reasons I can think of that you'd have to leave a "better ship" in hostile territory and fly a long way into friendly territory for a mission. :|

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:48 pm

Somehow the hanger idea seems more "natural and lifelike".

I appreciate that it is probably more difficult to code.

The game "Terminus" (Vatical Entertainment) had this feature but it was buggy... tended to crash whenever you swapped ships, and strange things happened... basically all of your ships had their own unique "equipment and energy profile" and status that the game had to deal with, and when you swapped ships your CURRENT (IE the ship you were swapping OUT of)... energy, fuel reserves, damage (if any), etc, got "messed up" (the routines were not properly coded)... and I think what happened is that occasionally a negative value occured... which should have destroyed the ship, but that was impossible while docked. So the game "ate it and rolled over".

Dunno if you want to get that far into it (IE a parked ship will have it's own level of fuel, maybe the player forgot to fill the tank up before storing it... the ship might be damaged (but in the meantime, it would be repairing itself (?)), etc... one way to "justify" normalizing everything is that the initial storage fee includes topping off the tank and repairing damage, and the ship is stored "shiny new and full of gas".

... what would happen on the off chance that the player had a ship or few stored in several places, but ran out of money? I would assume that the stored ships would be "repossessed" (lost).

Will the player be constrained to storing one extra ship in one location, or for the other extreme many ships in many locations?

Loaded equipment would be transferred from one to ship to the other when you swap.

A player has a Phoenix or something, with an Excalibur pack, and 5 cargo bays loaded with stuff... and then swaps with a Talon that that is built for speed... slim, trim and with only one cargo bay. Excess stuff that can't fit in the Talon... it has to go somewhere, or be forcably sold, or just "disappear".

... Just throwing data out there mind you ...

I like the hanger idea and voted for it, but the template might be the most headache-free way to to.

[Edited on 2-21-2009 by Storm]

Tpol · Post by **Tpol** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:00 pm

Originally posted by Jeremy
Tpol, you have a good argument, but if you have a smaller, faster ship, you can just outrun the enemies.
Plus, there's not many reasons I can think of that you'd have to leave a "better ship" in hostile territory and fly a long way into friendly territory for a mission. :|

Maybe I didn't state it right. Let's say you're in your tricked-out Leviathan in Sapphire and swap for a bug ship. In the template method, to get your Leviathan back, you will have to fly that bug ship with small engine, limited weaponry, etc to a station that has Leviathan frames. I don't know of any station that has Leviathan frames that is not in very hostile space. Is there?

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:01 pm

I voted for the hanger. Surely each ship will have it's own template, thus making the need to change/store templates redundant?

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:09 pm

You're going to hate me for this*, but how about implementing both options?

I like TPol's idea of being able to store a Leviathan in a safe area for quick retrieval, but parking ships in a hangar will still be tedious if we have to immediately build a replacement from scratch. With stored templates it would be a quick process, so the two ideas would complement each other.

If we can only have one, I'd vote for Templates... mainly because they seem more universally useful, even for the beginning phase of the game. From the description, it sounds like Hangars are for wealthy pilots who can afford to sink production cost (and hangar rental too, if that's included) in more than one ship at once. I'm only a few pilot rank levels into the game, but I'm already at the point where I could use a Template to switch between a fast scout/fighter and a cargo ship. It will be a long time before I have to worry about parking Leviathans.

* I used to work in a business where I learned never to give a client two options, because they'd always say "can we do both?"

Wasp89 · Post by **Wasp89** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:14 pm

I like both ideas, but I especially like the Hanger idea.

It would also be cool if we could use that hangar to store resources, weapons, etc., but that might be asking for too much.

At any rate, if I had a hangar (or even a template) I know that I would definitely use military ships more often, because it would mean that I wouldn't have to spend 15-20 minutes rebuilding my twin-hulled renegade every time I wanted to do cargo runs.

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm

Originally posted by Vice
Drawbacks for this option are that you risk losing ships if you use custom universes (since station ID's may be different or some stations may not even exist),

just for note, the dynamic server is at heart a modified version of the basic universe, I've no intention of playing about with existing stations (well with most of them anyway

).

I like the hanger idea, but I think there should be limits.
Firstly it should only be allowed for stations where the pilot already has a licence,
Secondly the cost should be high per cycle to stop pilots hoarding ships all round the universe, and only one ship [er hanger.

I'm guessing that all the equipment/weapons will be carried over?

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:23 pm

Sorry to complicate the idea...

*IF* the hanger concept is going to be implemented, the whole purpose is to make it easier on the player and to give the player some new conveniences.

(bear in mind, I LOVE the game as it is... these are just interesting ideas if they are implemented)

If a player rents a "hanger space", then maybe a "storage locker" should come with it.

A player has a Phoenix, with such-and-such a loadout and "stuff" in the cargo bays.

The player rents a hanger space.

Builds a Talon. Or a Leviathan. Or a few ships.

The player can transfer "stuff" (including things that are installed) from ship(s) to the storage locker, and from the storage locker to any given ship(s). To install them, or into cargo bays.

I imagine Vice is tearing his hair out now.

Nphyx · Post by **Nphyx** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:48 pm

I think both would be great if it's possible, but I lean toward template. It's not only simpler, it's somewhat less expensive and time consuming. What if I have, say, three or four different loadouts I want for the same basic ship design? It's much cheaper and easier for me to just swap the template out than to buy five copies of the ship and switch between them. Hangars have their advantages too, as mentioned above.

Ravenfeeder · Post by **Ravenfeeder** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:34 pm

I'd vote for the hanger. It'd be cool to dock my Levi, and swap over to my military ship, and give the hostiles a shock.

spelk · Post by **spelk** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:45 pm

Templates:

* Stores ship designs
* Designs would be limited by the hulls/parts available at a particular station
* Designs would be tied to your pilot profile
* Could be made portable (import/export from text file?) so you could share builds with others in the community

Changing ship designs will require unloading equipment/fuel/cargo and swapping it into the new ship, BUT, the new ship may not be able to accomodate all the currently held equipment - so you'll have to a) lose the excess (auto sell?) or b) store the equipment somewhere.

Hangar:

* Stores ships in specific locations
* costs and limits to keep number of ships owned down
* Need a way to track where your current ship stock are held
* Ships will become part of your equipment/storage mechanism
* Tying equipment to stations/locations may limit multiplayer games you can join (especially custom ones)

Changing ships may still require equipment swapping.

I don't think the two ideas are mutually exclusive. Templates seem to follow the current design ethos of the game. But at the moment you only have a single place to keep your equipment/fuel/cargo and that is your ship. At the shipyard you essentially upgrade or downgrade the same ship - not sure what happens if you downgrade a ship with equipment in - do you lose the equipment?

I really like the idea of having ship designs you can swap amongst the community. With Hangar only, this option isn't available as such.

Regarding equipment/fuel/cargo management, perhaps these assets are tied to your profile, so that when you enter the shipyard, you package up all your current ships stock, and regardless of what station you are at, you can get at this package (perhaps having a ferrying cost attached to getting it back?) - but this would give you a station-wide pilot inventory, that you can dip into and pull out of - for the purpose of building ships.

Personally, I'd like to be able to dock, swap ship configuration, and then fly out and do the combat mission, reap the rewards, and then come back and perhaps swap over to a mining ship configuration.. and go mining.. it will afford players the option to build custom rigs for different gameplay options (trading/mining/fighting), so they won't have to come up with "hybrids" to be able to do lots of different things with just one ship.

The complexity of multi-ships and Hangars sounds enticing, but I think I lean slightly more towards Templates, for the ability to store (and share?) custom designs. I think having a station-wide pilot inventory would be very useful, when you start to swap in and out of different ship designs.

XB7 · Post by **XB7** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:24 pm

I vote for station-specific rentable hangers.

Obvious pros:

- More submersive atmosphere

- Players can rent hangers at different locations along trade and mining routes.

- Players can store components, materials, and trade goods at location-specific points

- Removes the Templaty feel of the ship building process

Knight Rider · Post by **Knight Rider** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:11 pm

I vote for the hanger idea. I like the idea of having certain ships parked for certain missions. I don't mind paying the rental fee.

WeirdWill · Post by **WeirdWill** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:29 pm

The pros and cons of both methods were pretty good mentioned before me.

I decided for the hangar because templates are limited to the avaivable frames of the station. That doesnÂ´t help me to get "my" specific shipconfiguration back if the the station has not the frame I need.

But I think the number of parking ships should be restricted. Like verbosity mentioned, I think a station license should be needed and only one ship per station.

Rental fees should probably not more than paying an additional crewmember?

Fuel could be just transferred between the ships.
Maybe damaged ships have to be repaired before you can park them to make things easier.

Cargo and equipment is where the things get tough I think. Cargo could stay in the parking ship and the equipment could automatically transferred in the new ship. If you want to leave some equipment behind in the parked ship you just have to transfer them in the cargobays of this ship before parking it.

Ok, I hope at least someone could understand my pidgin. IÂ´m much better in just reading english

[Bearbeitet am 21-2-2009 von WeirdWill]

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:58 pm

I'm going to vote Templates, but I understand some of the problems mentioned. However, as someone stated, the templates have a universal purpose while a hangar is only useful in the end-game, the part where you already have everything. The downside of templates indeed is that you should go somewhere where the ship already exists. On top, it would be easier to add a button to the Shipyard interface than on the Inventory Console, I think.

On the other hand, the hangar would add to the immersion of the game.

I'm extremely in dubio on this one, and I'll just state that 'both' sounds best.

Oh, and Vice, if you go for Hangars, you'll have fulfilled a promise you made waaaaaaay back:

posted on 19-5-2005 at 07:02
Don't quote me on this just yet, but I am working on a design that would let you buy several ships that you can store in various places. You can then drop one off, pay a small storage fee to the outfit that protected it while it was parked, then take off in a different ship that you own.

[Edited on 22-2-2009 by tha_rami]

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:25 am

I'm going to say that while the ideas sound good in practice... I don't understand why everyone needs their hand held

You can count me in for a no on both vote

tk7223 · Post by **tk7223** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:30 am

If I could only have one..Hanger it is...wishing for both down the road when Vice has time.

As to Hangers....I would think the size of the ship frame your wanting to dock would be part of the price factor, as well as the current sector economy and your reputation. Then if you have a licence it would make it cheaper just like equipment.

[Edited on 2-22-2009 by tk7223]

wolis · Post by **wolis** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:19 am

I vote hangers.. but I would love to see your items remain in the hanger (or you can swap between - choose to leave some bit on it, take others with you).

The template idea is great for quick changes and if possible should also be implemented..

..but the desire to own more than one ship really appeals.

A bank is a fun idea.. I could then get a loan to buy a big ship and have to pay off interest .. then there will be a galactic stock-market crash and ....

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:26 am

Originally posted by Daedalao
I'm going to say that while the ideas sound good in practice... I don't understand why everyone needs their hand held

You can count me in for a no on both vote

I don't see where the hand holding comes into it, after all, all we're talking about is removing the need to dual profile.

[Edited on 22-2-2009 by Zenith]

Daedalao · Post by **Daedalao** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:39 am

The only reason I dual profile is for different locations... when I feel the need to do military contracts, I fly to a carrier and switch to a fighter... The only reason this doesn't make any sense to me is that no matter what I have to dump my loyal and experienced crew when switching between a military frame and a merc frame.

reaper2040 · Post by **reaper2040** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:46 am

I like the idea of hangers because it provides the sense of ownership and "home" that I am currently missing.

Although I have not yet finished the game or even made tons of money; I expect that I will eventually I reach a point where I have way more money than I can practically spend. Since this is an open-ended game by design, what will inspire me to continue is the ability to set up shop in a few places around the universe and be able to say "I feel like scooting over to system X, jumping in the whatever I have parked there and doing a few of these type missions".

In short, what is the use of having piles of money if you have no place to keep your toys?