Full inertial mode?

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:23 pm

Hi idn, welcome to the forum and our space. See you in space sometime soon.

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:22 pm

Originally posted by MMaggio
There is a game like that, Aquila.
It's called "Terminus". But one of the probs is that the faster you go, the longer it takes to slow down as reverse thrusters must be maintained for longer period.
Not to mention high expenditures of fuel just to stop!

I'll have to look that one up. And yeah, that would be a factor, but it could add to the tactical challenge. You'd be chasing a ship and trying to guess when they'd make turn-over for slowing down, or for a course change. Following that submarine sim analogy, it would be something like tracking a zig-zagging convoy. There would be more long-range planning and tactics, and fewer quick close-range decisions. Probably a big emphasis on stealth technology and passive sensors too (again, like a sub sim). Maybe not a game for everyone, for sure.

Nphyx · Post by **Nphyx** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:01 pm

You talk about the dogfight model as if it's a bad thing

It's an action game, there aren't many things more action-ey than a dogfight.

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:30 am

Oh, I enjoy dogfighting. I don't want to see fewer good dogfighting space games. I would just like to see one game, someday, that takes a completely different approach with extreme engagement ranges (including lightspeed sensor delay) and high Delta V combat. Maybe even relativistic effects once you're going fast enough. You can read about this type of combat in sci-fi novels by authors like Larry Niven and Alastair Reynolds (two favorites of mine), but nobody has ever tried it as a computer game.

All due respect to Evochron, which I'm enjoying very much, but we don't have to keep re-making Wing Commander every time a new game comes out.

MMaggio · Post by **MMaggio** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:11 am

Do you have any idea how hard and how long it would take to make a 60* turn at just under light speed with full Newtonian physics?
Playing a space -sim would be impossible.
I think Vice has captured the perfect balance between actual physics and the ability to game.

idn · Post by **idn** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:45 am

Originally posted by MMaggio
Do you have any idea how hard and how long it would take to make a 60* turn at just under light speed with full Newtonian physics?
Playing a space -sim would be impossible.

Didn't you play Frontier?

It's not about gaming (for me at least), in Frontier you just didn't accelerate too much and everything was fine. But, if you wanted to, you could fly as fast as you'd like, provided you had the fuel for constant acceleration, and the space, planets and everything would just pass you by like sings on a highway. It was just fun. And then the pirates would come and blast you, but it was still fun.

I think Vice has captured the perfect balance between actual physics and the ability to game.

I agree. No one here want's to change it, for actual gameplay it's simply awesome.

[Edited on 2-22-2009 by idn]

Aguila · Post by **Aguila** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:34 pm

Originally posted by MMaggio
Do you have any idea how hard and how long it would take to make a 60* turn at just under light speed with full Newtonian physics?
Playing a space -sim would be impossible.

Not impossible, you'd just want a time dilation feature for the player, like we've had for years with submarine games. In Silent Hunter IV, you accelerate through the boring parts, and drop back to realtime for the exciting bits. There's no reason the same couldn't be done for a Newtonian/relativistic space combat game.

I think Vice has captured the perfect balance between actual physics and the ability to game.

Well, it works fine for this particular game, but I don't think there's only one way to design a space game.

soulsacrifice · Post by **soulsacrifice** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:58 am

Hi, sorry to bring up an old thread but this is something i'd be interested in. I'm happy enough for there to be a max speed limit but I really think it would be cool to have the third option to turn the stabilisers off and allow you to drift freely and give you that floating helplessly in space feel. As you have said already Vice, it wouldn't provide any tactical/maneuvering advantages so those who don't want it wouldn't have to use it.

I realise you get requests all the time but that just goes to show the quality, and the appreciation fans have for this game(and series). Just had to add my 2 cents to this topic.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:32 am

How about something along the lines of what X3 did? They had a separate part you could install which allowed time dilation, so it was like you were going faster. But everyone else sped up too.
Instead, a part you could install in Evochron might remove the speed limitation (or raise it a lot), but like in T3 you would have to go in a straight line, and any manuevers would cancel it. You'd also be unable to fire a weapon, and it would probably drain energy to limit its tactical use in a dogfight, but I imagine it'd be a lot like dropping out of stealth on someone. You'd pop in, use missiles instead of guns till your energy was up, and then either dash off again or stick around for the dogfight.
The part might take the form of a rogue software update or something, and you might be only able to get it from a rebel in a trade, lol.

Trip · Post by **Trip** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:28 pm

Looking at things from a realism standpoint I think that Evochron has it correct, or at least very close to correct.
When "drifting" with the IDS off the speed that you can achieve using the thrusters and afterburners appears to be a realistic relation of engine thrust to the mass of the craft. This is one of the things that has impressed me the most about the game, the realistic physics of space flight.

One of my favorite ways to get around and take short hops is to turn off the IDS and hit the afterburners to get me up to >3K speed then just drift without spending any more fuel until time to slow/stop.

Also, time dilation could only be used in the SP game otherwise all of the other players would need to be sped up to match the player going through the time dilation.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:02 am

I wasn't actually suggesting time dilation, but actually just explaining how that gameplay function was played out in the other game. In Evochron, it probably doesn't make sense to speed things up for the other ships in the universe, as that would provide no relative advantage.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:10 pm

Mmmmm, Time travel could have an advantage ! LOL

:P:P:P:P

Roi Danton · Post by **Roi Danton** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:29 pm

In I-War/I-War 2 the free flight mode also had roll/yaw/pitch assistants. But there was no speed limit. That enabled very interesting combat variants especially in big battles with dozens of ships of different sizes and maneuver capabilities. E.g. imagine ships flying with 500km/s trying to maneuver to dodge projectiles or beams.

49rTbird · Post by **49rTbird** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:41 pm

Hello Roi Danton, welcome to the forum and the Sim. See you out there sometime.

Roi Danton · Post by **Roi Danton** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:59 pm

Thx for the welcome! I'm still gathering information about the game (out of the forum) after testing the demo to decide if I'll really invest the time.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:28 am

It's worth it!

Here's another idea that might impact PvP in a cool way.
Did anyone else play X-Wing Alliance? The coolest part about that game IMO is that sometimes you didn't die to end a mission, sometimes you were just so disabled you didn't even have rudder control and you'd just be forced to watch as your objectives fizzled without you. That helpless feeling really helped the immersion.
For Evochron, though, we have a better flight model with thrusters aimed every which way... We can disable someone's engines, weapons and nav systems, but what about the IDS? Knocking out that would sure be a cool nightmare scenario kindof like being dead in the water. It could have various levels from full functional to full non-functional, like the weapons systems- each time it's used, it has a chance to fail, possibly directional from where it was hit. Trying to fight when you can't turn left, that would be something. And when I'm talking about the IDS, I'm including the compensation that keeps you from turning forever after you release the stick. So, if you turn left and then release but you don't have those rotational thrusters anymore, you would keep turning.
A counter might be a backup (less effective) stabilization system you could stick in an equipment slot, which could then be targeted.
Although, ship damage doesn't come into play much really. Most of the time when I get blown up, first my shields are down and then I'm dead immediately. Or, my shields are down and my engines are out and I'm dead in the water, and then my enemy comes around and I'm dead the next pass.
I think this should be adjusted, shields should be strong, but the hull should last a bit longer across the board, for everyone, so that those systems have a chance to fail before you die.
Struggling to manage damage while trying to wear down the opponent makes it more of a battle of attrition and wits. Along with that you might add the ability to prioritize repairs and we'd really have to be on our toes to stay ahead of the other guy.

Nigel_Strange · Post by **Nigel_Strange** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:57 am

I have wondered about the component damage thing.

Yes, when you disable engines, it should cause them to drift, or be unable to change course.

However, when you damage the Nav, what does that do? I have attacked many a capital ship and found that damaging the nav seems to do nothing. Same with damaging its weapons. The beams continue to intercept missiles, and it appears that it can launch missiles at me even if the weapons are set to nigh zero (maybe even zero).

If you have ever played Terminus, you know how that feeling of helplessness adds to the immersion. You are just spinning away, helpless. The auto-repair system might or might not be working. If it is working, you have to prioritize what it does as, for instance, you have a fuel leak (the auto repair uses fuel). So, if your fuel runs out before the auto-repair can finish, you're still dead. However, if you can plug the leak, you might make it.

Ah, but then the life-support system might be out, so now you have a choice: repair the fuel leak or repair the life support. Which comes first? It totally adds an additional element of strategy in just surviving. I used to plug in a backup life support system for this very contingency.

Of course, you could use the Distress Beacon. When the closest station receives this beacon, it sends out a ship to help you. Naturally, the ship must come to get you, and since you've been drifting away all this time, the sooner you hit teh beacon, the more likely the other ship will get to you before you run out of air, so here again is yet another element to plan.

It's all fun...however, it is very likely that, unless you are in a very busy battle in which enemies must quickly reprioritize their targets, the most likely scenario is for them to finish you off once you are at a disadvantage.