Originally posted by Wasp89
Aw, there's nothing wrong with the st290pro... it's a great stick! Granted, I wouldn't mind a few buttons on the base, but you gotta love the ambidextrous hand rest!
thats why I'm going for it again, nothing wrong with it, its lasted over a year, a lot longer than my first stick, and served me wel against opponents like vice.........
in saying that, a cyborg would be cool, but there is no left handed option, not that I can see. I should get MM to speak to them about that....
Oh..btw..if money is an issue..don't forget Ebay. I have a friend who just got an x52 complete, almost new condition for less than $50, shipping included.
in saying that, a cyborg would be cool, but there is no left handed option, not that I can see. I should get MM to speak to them about that.... [/quote]
I HAVE spoken to then about that! The only way they could do it would be to completely redesign both throttle and joystick for left hand operation and offer the controller as one or the other. After some research with Boeing and other defense contractors they were told that all pilots learn to fly with just one configuration, left-handed or not.
And let's not forget us right-handed people rule the world anyway!:P;)
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
O.K. I'm confused. You definitely have first hand experience with the X45 and 52. Can someone give the pros and cons of each? That would be a big help in my decision.
Hmmm, I'll try, but I must admit to not being totally objective, since I lean towards the X45.
Not necessarily in this order, the most noticable difference is that the X45 has a dedicated "roll" or "yaw" whichever you prefer, switch as opposed to the X52's "twist" action of the joystick.
The button layout is different on both the joystick and the throttle and as for total number; you win some & you lose some.
Again, I prefer the layout on the X45 as being more "intuitive", but I'm sure my familiarity with it leaves me prejudiced.
Both the X52 & the X52Pro sports a window with leds and other info on the throttle base, and I have never found the time to look at any of it in serious combat. I understand Vice likes it!
Both the throttle and the joystick boast smoother action than the X45 and both models allow for drag adjustment on the throttle while you're on your own with the joystick. Some people complain that the X45 seems stiff and I've heard complaints that the X52 is too loose. So, I can only offer my viewpoint. I prefer the stiffness of the X45.
I can tell you this! The X45 is infinately easier to program than the X52 if you are so inclined to write your own pilot profiles, which I recommend.
I'm looking at the two controllers right now and off the top of my head [don't hold me to this] I think the X45 seems to have more buttons. Both "trim" wheels for the X45 are on the throttle while the X52 has one on the joystick and one on the throttle.
The X52Pro is supposed to have all digital controls, allegedly is smoother & faster. Sorry, but you couldn't prove it to me.
Well, actually, that's not true, I admit the X52 may be a few milliseconds faster, but at my age, that's hard to notice.
Compare the price of an X52Pro to that of a good working X45 and you'll see a big difference! And altho I don't have a Win Vista, I have a gut feeling that the less complicated programming of the X45 would likely work well.
If you are willing to shop Ebay, you might as well look at prices for used X52's as well, as has been mentioned, there might be a good deal there.
One word of caution! Whatever you buy off Ebay, insist on the software disc if at all possible. Granted, all software is supported by Saitek and is available as a free D/l, trust me, it is a lot less difficult if you have the disc that came with the controller. I have helped other people w/o the disc and sometimes it was a nightnare! Nonetheless we were able to get it working.
There, I hope that answers your question and I warned you I might have been subjective!
Just had a thought! I know where I can test the installation of the X45 on a Vista machine and I will try to do so tomorrow afternoon. If any of you "doubting thomas's" want to wait till after then, I will post my results here as soon as I can!
[Edited on 2-12-2009 by MMaggio]
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
Thanks MMaggio for taking the time to spell out the differences. I am difinitely looking for a stick that's intuitive and easier to program. It sounds like the X45 was built to last, and a tough act to follow, just what I'm looking for.
Ok, Knight Rider et al; here is the result of trying to install the X45 with included software on a Vista 32 machine.
First, let me get another beer...
We disconnected the internet cable and loaded the disc, clicked on "install" and were immediately greeted with, "This program can only be installed on Win XP"!
But there is a way. Many of you should know this already, but I'll outline the steps anyway.
Go to "open CD".
Go to "setup" and click "properties".
You will get a drop box and click on "compatibilty" and select for XP!
Continue the install. It's as easy as that and it works perfect!
Do not plug the controller in until told to do so. After that follow the prompts. Make sure you select "Full Install or SST option" and continue. At some point you may get a box that asks if you wish to continue. Click continue. The PC techs I did this with assure me that Vista 64 will be the same.
So, to answer your questions, "YES" the X45 will work on Vista.
I heartily recommend using the supplied CD and disconnecting the internet cable during install. [there IS a reason for this]
If you purchase an X45 w/o the drivers, I cannot say wether the lastest drivers from Saitek will work with Vista. I assume they will, but you may have to D/L the drivers, then follow the steps outlined above, IF, it won't auto-install. If you just plug the controller in, Vista will "see" it and attempt a "self-install".
You may not be able to write custom profiles or use every button & switch, but you will be able to use the controller and bind it to the game.
Any more questions? Please ask!
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
Thanks MMaggio. It sounds like a little work to get the X45 to work on Vista. If I'm going to make an investment in an upgrade, I would want all the features to be fully functional.
I understand your love for the X45 but I never had the pleasure when I had Windows XP. So, for me, I'm looking to get more features and reliability for my money. So, with that said, I'm going with the X52 since it is more up-to-date, and would be more successful on my Vista system. I'm sure this thread will prove very valuable with other members in the forum, thanks for taking the time to break everything down for us.
Well, at least we found out wether it would work or not.
I hope your happy with whatever you buy and if you have any "programming" questions, feel free to ask!
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
I'm using the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, with XP Pro, it's got 12 programmable buttons, which is enough for me, I'd get lost with 32 buttons.
It's got twist throttle, and a button, on top center of the hat, for looking around. I've got "CM", MOTS on/off, "Iner sys on/off", and "Target nearest hostile" on the stick hat, plus afterburners on the switch by my thumb.
There's another six buttons on the joystick base, which I use for odds and sods.
It's easy to set up, only had it a couple of days, still getting used to it, but, so far, no problems - plus, it's only £35 brand new!
I also bought a Logitech super duper infra red USB cable mouse, which I've already had a couple of orgasms over - love it.
I have a Wingman StrikeForce 3D, it works great. I'd love to see force feedback support in Evochron for it, but other than that it's perfect with the logitech software installed. I use hat 1 for camera, hat 2 for strafe controls, and there are enough buttons, plus throttle & axis twist, on the thing to handle all the other critical functions.
I also have a touchscreen but unfortunately it doesn't play well in this or many other games. I'd love to be able to reach out and tap the interactive HUD elements and never even touch the keyboard & mouse.
After spouting on here about how I'm a joystick sort of a guy, I've had to switch back to mouse control, because I don't know what it is, the ergonomics of my new joystick on my PC table, but I'm getting reall bad RSI when flying with the stick.. which is a big shame...
I'm using my good ol' trusty Playstation 2 controller + SmartJoy USB adapter, I've used it for years on a variety of sims. I've yet to have a game have issues with it aside from the waste of space called GRiD which was easily sorted after the first patch. But this game was a breeze to set it up, I did change the button configs a few times and I still use the mouse for a couple of things, but for the most part once in the game I'm good with the controller. I do have to say it's much easier to handle and enjoy the game from a controller, definately the way to go. And with about another 8 PS2/PS1 controllers stashed in my closet over the years I have plentiful supply if something happens to my current one!
It might not be the best or most extravagant of options, but for me it is far better than using the KB + Mouse. Plus it was very inexpensive, and I never have to calibrate the controller which is another plus, it just works! Good luck finding the SmartJoy USB adapter though, I got this one about 8 years ago, it's had native Windows driver support since about Windows 98 lol, but even Windows 7 Beta still supports it! I'm currently on Vista x64 though, and so far no complaints!
Thank you for the idea of using an old PS2 controller Kursah, I'd never have thought of that.. I dug mine out and started messing with the button configs.. I'd be interested in hearing how you've set yours up..
I started out with
roll on left stick left/right
pitch on left stick up/down
turn on right stick left/right
Afterburner is on X
Mining Beam on Square
Countermeasures on Triangle
Inertial on Circle
Primary weapon on R2
Secondary weapon on R1
Throttle up on L1
Throttle down on L2
Strafe Horizontal on D-pad left/right
Boost Shields on D-pad up
Boost Weapons on D-pad down
Nav on Select
Warp/Jump on Start
Trying to come up with a workable and natural feeling setup is quite tricky, so it would be nice to compare and contrast with another player using the PS2 gamepad. Its a shame the throttle on buttons cannot be limited to max down to zero, and if you press it too much it goes into negative throttle - which can take a few presses up and down to get it back to zero.. can't see button settings for max and zero throttle sadly.
I've tried several combinations of putting the roll together with pitch or turn with pitch I guess just need to go through combinations and find out what feels most natural.
Anyway, thanks for the idea, I hope I can whittle away a more natural and less RSI inducing gamepad setup.
Afterburner - LH Stick 3 (push the LH stick and use as a button)
Countermeasures - RH Stick 3 (push the RH stick and use as a button)
Primary Weapon - R1
Secondary Weapon - R2
Throttle up - L1
Throttle Down - L2
Strafe - HAT/D-Pad Buttons
Next Target - Triangle
Tractor Beam - Square
MDTS On/Off - X
Inertia Control - Circle
Nav - Select
Warp/Jump - Start
I like having the D-Pad for the strafing, I'm sure it'll come in handy when I get into some combat, which I have yet to do, still getting used to the game and what it has to offer beyond combat.
I was using the RH Joystick up and down for throttle, which means dead center was about 540, was more of a pain that it was worth. I'm still constantly changing, the further I get in the game even at the early stage I'm at and I'm finding there are some things I feel I would use more or less, so priority is interesting but so far has been pretty good.
Keep me posted if you find something that feels right that you feel I should try, so far I'm pretty content though!
Speaking of gaming controllers, another simple option is to convert an old Xbox controller to USB. Got an xbox controller? Got a usb extension cable, or some USB device you can butcher? Cut 'em open, match colored wire to colored wire, solder, shrink tubing / electrical tape, voila, you now have a PC controller. If you use an extension cable and you plan it out right you can also set it up to still work in your xbox. You'll also need some (easy to find) drivers. I haven't tried mine on evochron yet though, I prefer a full joystick for flight sims.
I'm looking to try out a flight stick. I'm torn between the ST290 Pro Joystick and the Cyborg X. While considering basic flight and combat in the game, what one do you recommend? I'm not left handed. Would the ST290 Pro Joystick have enough buttons for me?
Check out the Saitek EVO. I've had mine for years now. Works great and the programming software easy to use. And relatively inexpensive.
Piper,
I checked out the stick but I'm concerned with the throttle being in the middle back of the stick. Looks to be a bad stop and a hard reach. Do you have issues with the throttle? Thank you.
Hi Grue. This may sound like "old news" to some, but since you are new, I'll have to do my routine again.
If you have room on your desk or chair, you can't go wrong with a Saitek "X" series controller. They are the most powerful, programmable controller in the world.
The current ones available are the Saitex X52 & the X52Pro, with the "Pro" considerably more expensive.
Reconditioned units are often available from Saitek.com for 1/2 price.
Still too expensive?
Well then, I'm partial to the older X45 I think it's a better stick, but that's just me.
An X45 can be found on Ebay for around $35.00 USD and sometimes less. I never heard of a "bad X45". Tech support and drivers are still available for the controller, but mechanical support is limited as the controller is no longer in production.
If you want more info about this amazing controller and why I like it so, U2U me for further info. Everybody else has heard it already! LOL
Good Luck!
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
I think the X52 would be a tad overkill right now. I did read your previous comments on the forms about your love affair with this wonderful device of modern technology.
I'm trying to dip my toe into the pond of flight simulation. Not sure how the experience is going to go due to age. I have been getting sick while playing a lot of games. Any time a game has very good/real physics, I tend to get sick. At this point, I just wanted a starter flight stick in case my trek falls short due to space puke.
I would like to still hear comments about the throttle control on the Cyborg Evo or the ST290 Pro. Thank you very much.
Interesting Grue! Your ailment sounds amazingly like mine, only I have been suffering for over 2yrs.
I am on some new meds which seem to help quite a bit.
But back to your situ. All things considered, I recommend the Saitek ST90!
P.S. I hope you don't have what I have and I hope you feel better soon!
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
You definitely have first hand experience with the X45 and 52. Can someone give the pros and cons of each? That would be a big help in my decision.
And mad cat
Would the ST290 Pro Joystick have enough buttons for me?