Full inertial mode?

Tips, tactics, and general discussion for Evochron Legacy.
reprobator
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Full inertial mode?

Post by reprobator »

Hi all!

i'm new to the evochron series and i enjoyed well the legends demo.

I was wondering if there was a way to deactivate the computer assist in inertial mode?

For exemple when you roll, after leaving the joystick alone the ship auto stabilize your roll... and the same is true for the pitch and yaw axis.
In my opinion this feel a bit too brutal.
In assisted and intertial mode it should be a bit smoother.
and having a zero assistance mode would be damn cool , it would feel a bit like orbiter :)


Anyway : Nice demo this game rocks!
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Daedalao »

I don't have any assist when I'm in inertial, I'm not sure what your control interface is. Mine is a Saitek X52.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by reprobator »

a x52, when i'm speaking about assist i mean :

If you for exemple roll for 2 seconds in a certain force, you should roll the opposite side with the same force et and time to stabilize or your ship would continue to roll all alone.

[Edite le 2-11-2009 par reprobator]
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Full inertial mode?

Post by BraveHart »

Welcome aboard reprobator... an interesting thought and Vice will probably give you an accurate answer , I myself enjoy the way the controls work and use a a simple Logitech attack3 joy stick. I have a good firm feel of how my ship fly's and I like it a lot. Hope you get the answer you want.

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reprobator
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Full inertial mode?

Post by reprobator »

Thanks you for your warm welcome :D

i've flown many space sims before as it is my favorite genre of game (sadly as it's almost a dead kind of game :( especially because i'm more a space combat adept )
And after playing for beyound the red line demo (wich is has no newtonian physics though) evechron feel a bit rigid for me.
But i can play with that anyway :)

[Edite le 2-11-2009 par reprobator]
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Daedalao »

Ahh, but not even most modern jets fly without some kind of avionics preventing the pilot from overstressing the frame. I just recently blew myself up in StarLancer for stressing a bomber too much. I'd say that it'd take away from the combat for those that use a mouse/keyboard setup.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by reprobator »

well in the vaccum of space i don't think you'll be able to overstress the ships as you do not have any kinds of friction (at least not enough to blow your ship )
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Full inertial mode?

Post by wolis »

I know what you mean re inertia mode.

When I have it on and I roll ( press the < or > keys ) I can imagine it would just keep on rolling unless I turn off inertia or apply a force in the opposite direction.

When I have inertia off (IDS?) then I expect the dampening on a roll.

I remember putting my self in a slow spin to dock in Elite.. and it just kept on spinning to match the station.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Storm »

I imagine Vice wants to program the game to accommodate the most players... including those that use keyboard and mouse control, and a wide variety of joysticks including simple 2 axis joysticks. "Extreme Physics" might be considered too much of a pain for keyboard-only and mouse-only users.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by reprobator »

well i understand that too, anyway we could have a third flight mode with full inertia enabled for those who can/want.

For the inertial mode,adding a little delay before the ship counter the dampering (around 1 sec ) would feel a bit smoother too i think.



[Edite le 2-11-2009 par reprobator]
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Post by Winter Owl »

I like the notion of this zero assist mode. It would take some practice, but would certainly be more realistic.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by reprobator »

and let you make some nasty move while dogfighting :P
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Vice »

I have pondered implementing a 'no-centering' option, but couldn't really justify its advantages. It seemed to just provide a manual control mode that was far more difficult to manage and didn't really provide any tactical/maneuvering options beyond what the current zero-gravity inertia system offered. What specific benefits would such an option provide?
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Full inertial mode?

Post by 49rTbird »

It would make me dizzy (lol). I've tried a few space sims (not games) that had realistic laws and they are VERY hard to handle, as a real space ship without computer assist would be. This Sim's control saves a lot of us. :)
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Full inertial mode?

Post by MMaggio »

I gotta' agree with Vice on this one, he's got just enough "Newtonian physics" to make the game interesting. The "roll" feature is a manuevere that is optimized by the onboard thrusters. Just to keep us joystick jockies from hurtling thru space in a never-ending spin!
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Kovah »

I think the current system is fine. Its realistic enough to not be arcadey. If you really want to get realistic then no ship would have a max speed. You'd just keep going faster until you applied opposite thrust, like in Elite 2/3. Hell, I'd be a big fan of that, but it would totally change the way the game is played. Hard to say if it would be in a good or bad way, but it would definitely be different.
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Post by wolis »

I like the idea of it as a third option, more for experimenting and fun than playing the game proper (maybe it can be another ini setting?).

Its like when you have an auto-docking system, you want to turn it off every now and then to test your skills and see if you still remember how to dock manually.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Daedalao »

It isn't the friction that damages your ship, it's that there are still forces being applied when you change directions. Although I'd be all for seeing this implemented as a test.
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Full inertial mode?

Post by tk7223 »

I'll have to side with keeping things as they are for Inertial content. With out computer assistance it's almost impossible for the human brain to correct a 3d axis spin, let alone use it in combat. Get hit with kenetic energy(missle-guns) and your off and spinning! The Apollo crews had massive amounts of training with this 3d axis spin and it was still one of their 'worst case' senarios. However....this doesn bring up an interesting addition to ship system damage. It could be interesting to have your thruster control go out and go into a spin with only your ability to manually adjust your thrusters to correct. Heck, I've not been damaged much so maybe it's already ingame!!
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Blackthorne »

Heck, I've not been damaged much so maybe it's already ingame!!
Thruster damage simply cuts off your ability to use the afterburner, lowers your maximum speed and disables your fulcrum drive.

Add "spin" to that, and you get very, very short fights, since after about the first hit that grazes your thrusters, you're dead meat. Do not want, seriously, damaged thrusters are nasty enough already as is.

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Full inertial mode?

Post by idn »

Hello there!

I'm new to the Evochron series, but the Legends demo is so good I thought I'd drop a line.

I'm all in for an .ini setting for full inertial mode, that was one of the most fantastic things in Frontier. I know it'd serve no real purpose in Evochron, especially rolling, but cruising the universe at incredible speeds would be very fun. It's just that kind of sandboxy thing every sandboxer wants to do ;). Right now 4kmps is tad too slow for exploring the galaxy personally (and jumping doesn't cut it).

Aside from that I have absolutely no problem with this fantastic game and I shall be buying it right after paycheck, inertia or not. ;)
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Full inertial mode?

Post by Aguila »

Originally posted by Kovah
I think the current system is fine. Its realistic enough to not be arcadey. If you really want to get realistic then no ship would have a max speed. You'd just keep going faster until you applied opposite thrust, like in Elite 2/3. Hell, I'd be a big fan of that, but it would totally change the way the game is played. Hard to say if it would be in a good or bad way, but it would definitely be different.
Right, instead of a capped speed limit, different ships would have different rates of acceleration. It would be a whole different game.

From a game design standpoint, a speed cap does keep combat more "exciting" because you can never get very far from other ships (no massive Delta V). It's been a fixture of this type of game since Wing Commander. Independence War 1 and 2 did have a sort of in-between flight mode where you could build high speeds and quickly damp them down again, and I liked that better than this fixed speed limit, but it still wasn't quite full Newtonian combat.

If we had realistic inertial/Newtonian combat, then combat would play out more like a submarine sim, where it would take hours (or days, or weeks) to match course and plot intercepts. Weapons would work differently... you could fire a homing missile at long range if it was fast enough with enough range. But you couldn't target a laser at a ship doing evasive maneuvers if it was more than a few light-minutes away, because you wouldn't be seeing the "real" location of the target, due to lightspeed delay for your sensors. You'd have to get closer to fire energy weapons.

So it's not as easy as just removing the speed cap in a game like this. There would have to be a lot of changes in the weapon functions, targeting, and how the AI dealt with the tactics. It's probably much easier to write combat AI for short range dogfights, instead of long-range tactical planning. You'd never have any combat close to a planet or station because anything moving slow enough to dock or land would be a sitting duck for a fast mover. All combat would probably be in deep, deep space. We'd need a better Nav map too. :P

I still wish someone would try making this type of game one day. For some of us space geeks, it might be more fun than the furious close WWII dogfight model we've been stuck with for years...
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Full inertial mode?

Post by warsign »

Please don't touch the controls.
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Post by MMaggio »

There is a game like that, Aquila.
It's called "Terminus". But one of the probs is that the faster you go, the longer it takes to slow down as reverse thrusters must be maintained for longer period.
Not to mention high expenditures of fuel just to stop!
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Full inertial mode?

Post by idn »

Well, I don't want the controls changed either. They're balanced and fun. I'd only want to have the possibility of an (hidden) option, which would, for example, be automatically disabled in multiplayer and would turn off rankings, saving and/or even combat. That is, it'd have no purpose aside from a sandbox cruise.

[Edited on 2-21-2009 by idn]