reputation and hostiles

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:51 am

ok, im at a loss here, and its beginning to get a little frustrating. ive gone to great lengths to get my rep in olympus up to the point that navy is at 82%... thats good, right? and yet now theyve started swarming me like mad everywhere i go... not two or three, but 10 or 15, all of them hostile... if i fight, my rep with them goes down to almost nothing... if i flee, well, theres more where those came from. i just dont understand what the deal is, i cant get any peace no matter what i do or where i go... so what, exactly, do i have to do to get these guys off my back? ive tried leaving the system and coming back, and theyre still there and still lusting after my blood...

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:23 am

Probably not all Navy ships coming after you. But I would suggest not fighting them, just fly by them for where you need to go. Keep your speed high and the IDS off, use the jump drive when needed and don't even engage until you are ready to. Try to stay off the common traffic pathways when possible, and dock/undock quickly when you need to check for contract, items, ships, parts, etc. Are you taking contracts? If so, who are you accepting them from? That could have a negative impact on your reputation. How wealthy are you? If you have some credits built up, you might want to bribe some of them to leave you alone.

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:59 am

theyre all navy and energy... with whom i have 82 and 76 rep respectively. i would just "fly on" if it werent for they fact that everywhere i go, there they are. if i dont want to just sit and twiddle my thumbs in empty space, ive got to fight or die. i guess i could try other systems, but they didnt seem any friendlier. its starting to look like my dreams of being a peaceful explorer and miner are impossible since 80% of all the ships in every sector but saphire treat me like the worst kind of pirate scum, even though ive never done a thing to them, and actually done quite a bit FOR them

add to that the fact that im a hostile magnet (they never fight each other, they just all converge on me like im the only ship in the galaxy) and i just dont know what else to do.

ive been taking contracts from the mining station in the huge asteroid field in olympus. ive been taking exclusively navy and energy contracts, to get their rep up... and its worked. except theyre still just as hostile towards me now as they were when their rep was 45 and 50...

i guess i could do all that stuff you suggest if i wanted to try to live my life as a fugitive (for what, i dont know)... but i dont. im going to plug away at it for a few more hours but if im still getting constantly gangbanged by a dozen ships even with high rep by then, i guess ill just start over and see if i cant avoid the crazed hostility next time...

[Edited on 2009-2-10 by radio_babylon]

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:40 am

You're almost to the point that your global reputation will shift soon, so if you keep at the contracts you've been working on, you'll switch to the next tier up, resulting in far fewer hostile ships eventually. The other option is you can mod the system to be friendly, but that may or may not be an option you want to use.

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:00 am

seriously, can someone explain to me how it is that my rep is so high with the navy and they all just pile on? ive attached my save game. just warp to any station in the system and get ready for the beatdown. and note that theyre all navy ships... and note how they just keep on coming and coming and coming and coming... id love to bribe them, but its a little hard to get close enough to open the trade window then type in a bribe when ive got 6 missiles coming up my tailpipe.

i give up. im starting over. and if its an endemic problem and not just with this profile, then i guess i give up... its all just fight fight fight fight fight or run run run run run all the time, this non-stop gangbanging isnt in line with what i was hoping for...

shewter · Post by **shewter** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:09 am

Originally posted by radio_babylon
seriously, can someone explain to me how it is that my rep is so high with the navy and they all just pile on? ive attached my save game. just warp to any station in the system and get ready for the beatdown. and note that theyre all navy ships... and note how they just keep on coming and coming and coming and coming... id love to bribe them, but its a little hard to get close enough to open the trade window then type in a bribe when ive got 6 missiles coming up my tailpipe.

i give up. im starting over. and if its an endemic problem and not just with this profile, then i guess i give up... its all just fight fight fight fight fight or run run run run run all the time, this non-stop gangbanging isnt in line with what i was hoping for...

Just tried out your pilot profile, didnt seem that bad, not a whole lot of navy coming after me, a few, stick with it looks like your a few contracts away from changing your rep in the sys, do contracts for the navy, miners and energy.Pop on to MP some time, theres a lot of pilots out there willing to help out the new guys.

[Edited on 2-10-2009 by shewter]

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:17 am

are you kidding me?

i wonder if theres something wrong with the files on my machine then. im about to bust out fraps and record it so you can see the literally 10-15 that pop in within 30 seconds of going anywhere. its absolutely ridiculous...

which STILL doesnt explain why EVERY navy ship is hostile, even though theyve got the highest rep for me.

[Edited on 2009-2-10 by radio_babylon]

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:25 am

you know, when i think about it, i dont even think it matters why my rep isnt affecting which factions are hostile to me in a logical way... i think ive got an idealogical problem with the game now that ive had some time to play it. the whole rep system is the issue. i could understand if i warped into a system and the locals said "youre known far and wide as a murderous pirating scumbag, DIE!"... presuming of course i WERE a muderous pirating scumbag. but instead, im a nobody, and the reaction is "you aint from around here, are you boy? DIE!"

its arbitrary, and punishing, and i dont think im going to be able to get around that problem no matter how hard i work within the system.

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:26 am

Probably one of the best explanations:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3448

In short, at 'fair', those percentages indicate potential friendly/moderate to hostile ship ratios. When your reputation switches to 'good', then it's friendly to moderate ratios. The percentages indicate your progress to the next tier and relate to how many ships you can expect to encounter for a given threat level.

The reason more hostiles flood in once one spots you is they call in for reinforcements. Once one hostile finds you, they'll call out your position to other hostile ships to jump in to help take you out. If you use the techniques described above, you can reduce your encounters.

i give up. im starting over. and if its an endemic problem and not just with this profile, then i guess i give up... its all just fight fight fight fight fight or run run run run run all the time, this non-stop gangbanging isnt in line with what i was hoping for...

Is there a reason you travelled to that system? If you don't want combat or the time pressure, you can stick to safe space around Sapphire and Erato for a while until you do feel ready. And if you want to travel beyond default safe space without risk, you can change the reputations of those systems as I suggested.

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:29 am

i could understand if i warped into a system and the locals said "youre known far and wide as a murderous pirating scumbag, DIE!"... presuming of course i WERE a muderous pirating scumbag. but instead, im a nobody, and the reaction is "you aint from around here, are you boy? DIE!"

You start out an ally of the Alliance, which makes you an enemy of competing forces elsewhere by default. Not because of what you did, but because of who you are allied with. But as I recommended earlier:

its arbitrary, and punishing, and i dont think im going to be able to get around that problem no matter how hard i work within the system.

Then change the system. That's one of the things this game lets you do.

[Edited on 2-10-2009 by Vice]

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:36 am

Originally posted by Vice
You start out an ally of the Alliance, which makes you an enemy of competing forces elsewhere by default. Not because of what you did, but because of who you are allied with. But as I recommended earlier:

then it doesnt make much sense to be getting attacked by navy (i assume theyre alliance, right) in alliance territory... and even less sense when my rep with the navy in a system is so high. "you do good work for us, here have some money! but spend it quick, because now im going to kill you." i mean, theres literally not one single navy ship ive encountered in olympus that isnt red to me... and its gotten WORSE as my rep with them has improved. originally, only about half of them were hostile... now they all are...

Then change the system. That's once of the things this game lets you do.

honestly, im not much of a do-it-myselfer... i dont mod or do any of that kind of thing... i like to fire up a game and play it for a while... which is not a criticism of the game, just that its another way that i think this is turning out to not be the game for me.

theres a ton of stuff to do in the game, and thats what excited me about it. its a shame i cant actually do any of it because all im doing is fighting or fleeing, for no reason that makes sense within the context of the game or my actions within it.

presuming, of course, that theres nothing wrong with my save, and that its intentional that things work this way...

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:42 am

then it doesnt make much sense to be getting attacked by navy (i assume theyre alliance, right) in alliance territory... and even less sense when my rep with the navy in a system is so high. "you do good work for us, here have some money! but spend it quick, because now im going to kill you." i mean, theres literally not one single navy ship ive encountered in olympus that isnt red to me... and its gotten WORSE as my rep with them has improved. originally, only about half of them were hostile... now they all are...

Every solar system has its own Navy. There isn't just one global Navy, there are dozens, one for each system. Each Navy can have its own independent reputation with you. What you describe though doesn't sound like a 'Fair' rated system. I will load your profile and see where things are at, that might explain things a bit more.

honestly, im not much of a do-it-myselfer... i dont mod or do any of that kind of thing

It's no more difficult that just changing a value in a text file. No coding or anything

theres a ton of stuff to do in the game, and thats what excited me about it. its a shame i cant actually do any of it because all im doing is fighting or fleeing, for no reason that makes sense within the context of the game or my actions within it.

Are you interested in joining online? Other players can protect you while you fly and help get you started on more defensive equipment like stealth devices (which let you fly anywhere you want without interference from hostiles).

I'll be checking out your profile...

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:53 am

Profile looks valid, so lets try this. Attached is your profile with the reputation adjusted to be far more friendly.

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:13 pm

thanks. ill try it out when i get off work tonight.

not really interested in online... im not what youd call a people person

so what do i need to change so that the in-game universe maintains some semblance of logical consistency? that is to say, such that alliance-aligned space is friendly to alliance-aligned players by default, territories hostile to the alliance are hostile to alliance-aligned players, and warzones are of course hostile to everyone? and i guess id probably want to set it up such that rebels are low-rep as well (since i assume theyre rebels against the alliance? if not, what are they rebelling against anyway?). i want to set it up in such a way that it makes some kind of *sense* how im perceived in a system ive never even been to before, instead of the arbitrary "hey, theres a new guy, kill him!"

is this possible? and if it is, once i get this set up, will the other factions also interact in some logical manner, that is to say, when rebels fly into a sector, all the other factions pile on them? like, the AI will actually fight amongst itself, and enemy AI wont automatically make a bee-line across space straight for me, ignoring everyone else (including other AI ships that are actually attacking it!)?

in fact when i think about it, thats the second biggest problem im having with this game... the way the game behaves as if i am the only person of consequence in the universe. i *am*, of course, because im the only "real" person in it, but i think a game should at least make an effort to hold up the illusion that im not the only "real" person.

as an example, ive found that the easiest way to deal with the "patrol" missions is to simply hire a few wingmen, turn IDS off, warp to the waypoint, order wingmen to attack, and just coast on by at >4k. the hostiles IGNORE my wingmen and do nothing but try (in futility) to catch me, as my wingmen blow them away. its as if my wingmen dont even exist. is that intended?

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:02 pm

I sent the details on how to set reputation levels to you in a u2u message.

Yes, that is intended, you are the leader who accepted the contract, you are the primary target. Other ships do fight each other on their own, but for particular combat contracts that you accept from opposing forces, you'll make yourself a primary target to hostile ships.

WeirdWill · Post by **WeirdWill** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:17 pm

I have to second radio_babylon about the reputation system.
It seems not to logical to get attacked from Navy in an Alliance system (it happens to me too). Ok, there is always the possibility that they are corrupt, but it should only happen when there are no other ships around.
When i get attacked from rebels, the Navy should defend me (a honest wannabe-merchant) because they are interested in hold up the law in the system and not just watch the show.

I think the reputation system has great potential but needs adjustments.

Is it possible to modify each faction reputation in each system individually or only the overall reputation in a system?

I have to say that is the only real problem i have with the game which prevents me to take it as an alltime-classic game.

Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:22 pm

Overall reputations are adjustable, individual reputations can only be effected in game.

While testing for RB, I've noticed some patterns that exceed the tolerances for reputations and ship faction affiliations. So I'll be working on adjusting and changing things to better align with each global tier and faction group.

WeirdWill · Post by **WeirdWill** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:37 pm

Thanks for the reply. IÂ´m looking forward to the adjustments.

May it be possible to mod individual reputations in a further release? It would allow to create some unique systems...

verbosity · Post by **verbosity** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:41 pm

Originally posted by WeirdWill
Thanks for the reply. IÂ´m looking forward to the adjustments.

May it be possible to mod individual reputations in a further release? It would allow to create some unique systems...

this would be cool, it'd also give the dynamic universe a bit more scpoe too

radio_babylon · Post by **radio_babylon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:45 pm

what id really like to see is some kind of universe-wide reputation, in addition to the individual system reputations. the universal reputation neednt map directly to the system reputations (ie, navy, energy, rebel, etc)... it could instead be more along the lines of "alignments"... this global rep would be influenced by player ACTIONS and not particularly by faction interactions.

that is to say, perhaps there are categories like trade, combat, aggression, political alignment, etc... as you do things (buy and sell goods, fighting of any kind, initiate combat against yellows/greens, which side (rebels/law) you tend to do missions for) these alignments are modified, and in turn they act as a modifier to faction reputations in systems across the game universe. these alignments would change slowly as a way to abstract the slow spread of word-of-mouth reputation, and the reputations would also decay over time for things like trade if they arent reinforced. this would give a real sense that what you do matters, and that it matters in more than just the sector or system youre doing them in.

i know im not explaining this very well, and that it sounds a lot more compicated than i intend. i guess in summary, id like to see something tied to the pilot and their actions that affects different faction reputations across the board... like "alignment X affects faction rep A by +.1X, rep B by -.15X. alignment Y affects faction rep B by +.2Y, rep C by +.2Y, rep D by -.5Y... substitute "navy, mining, rebel, etc" in for A,B,C,etc and the undetermined global alignment types for X,Y,Z etc...

does that make any sense at all?