Rep Assistance....

Goatnado386 · Post by **Goatnado386** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Vice
Not useless, but difficult (a strong player request when I initially added the feature about a year ago). However, I think it has turned out to be too difficult in many situations, often requiring 20-30 minutes of gameplay (per session) before a change occurs. It has not yet been announced, but one of the changes I have planned for the next Renegades update is back-porting the reputation system from Legends, which saves your local reputation status with your other profile stats and aligns individual ship reputations with each faction value better. This is no small task though, it requires some major code porting (and very careful testing to make sure nothing breaks), so it will take a while. But this is on the to-do list for the next update to Renegades.

That sounds better than what is in place right now. The current reputation system, in my opinion, is meticulous. I really don't agree with having all the good guys out to kill the player for no reason, but since that's here to stay, having the game save your current progress when you log-out or go from system to system would be fantastic.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:36 am

Sorry if I sounded grouchy earlier. Upon waking up and having my first cup of coffee, and reviewing my earlier posts it looks like I might have come across as a jerk.

I'm all better now

I was frustrated with not-quite understanding the reputation system (I really think I understand it now), TIRED (MY fault), worried that my videocard is going under (no one's problem but my own).

When it started to dawn on me that work that one does to improve reputation can't really be a permanent thing if you leave the system or exit the game (I assume that also means "exit by death")(EDIT: unless you worked hard enough IN THAT SESSION to get the HUD message "Your system reputation has improved"), combined with my first experience in Olympus - well, "you would not want to have been here" (hehehe). I just couln't believe that when I do a quicksave, all that work would be gone.

Upon resting, I'm guessing that "So what - I don't HAVE to improve reputation in Olympus anyway (unless the game is updated with a changed rep system). Just use Olympus for combat practice... if you HAVE to travel through hostile systems later, just run through them until you are more experienced and/or have a better ship".

If there is a vote though, I would very much be in favor of the game storing any "achieved" faction rep when the game is saved/ quicksaved. Some of us are not young anymore, there are health problems, I can't chain myself to a computer for hours - even DAYS - like I used to when I was younger. It was implied that things were done this way because of a user request. I'm tempted to ask if that user was a masochistic loon.

If you want to penalize "system hopping", at least I can see the philosophy behind it. If a player is in Olympus, does some work and improves faction rep, ALMOST improving global rep for that system ....

(oops - okay - its that word "Global" - what IS global rep - there is faction rep, and now I understand how it will EVENTUALLY improve rep for that SYSTEM ... so there is SYSTEM rep, but "Global" implies that anything I do in, say, Sapphire, will also change something GLOBALLY across all systems???)

... anyway, the player almost but not quite improved SYSTEM rep but leaves the system, then I can understand the philosophy behind the game dropping all that work. "Arghh... he be just a scurvy system hopper, he be".

But that work NEEDS to be in the quicksave.

[Edited on 1-8-2009 by Storm]

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:34 am

Okie dokie.

I tried Lambda system. First, got there by discovering my first wormhole (Sapphire - don't know how I missed it before). Also used the Lambda gate.

Its easier for newbies than Olympus for combat practice. At least I started killing rather then being killed, after some experience. I still die too quickly, but I am getting better.

Again, though, not saving the (local) reputations in quicksaves is still a pain. I'd like to be able to see if I could improve my system rep in Lambda, but I just die too soon. Running in and getting a kill then running back to Sapphire will give me kills (numbers that I can save), but it doesn't improve the Lambda system rep that way.

tha_rami · Post by **tha_rami** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:33 am

. I'm tempted to ask if that user was a masochistic loon.

Might've been. Should ask Vice whether it was me.

If you want to improve your reputation, you'll either have to bribe your way in, which'll require some money, or be very good at fighting (to do contracts AND fend off the reddies).

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm

Originally posted by tha_rami
. I'm tempted to ask if that user was a masochistic loon.
Might've been. Should ask Vice whether it was me.

If you want to improve your reputation, you'll either have to bribe your way in, which'll require some money, or be very good at fighting (to do contracts AND fend off the reddies).

No problem.

Until / Unless Vice changes the rep system with an update, I will DROP the goal of improving rep in hostile systems. Unless I get a GREAT DEAL of money for bribes (right now I have ~ 18 million). I am saving up for a better ship / equipment. At some point, I will make an exploring run to better systems (I probably WILL be "running a lot") to find goodies.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:46 am

Okay... faction reputations stored in the savegame.

I realize that it's been mentioned that this might be included in the next ER update, ... and this subject has probably already been "flogged to death"... But...

I'd like to submit "another vote" for storing faction reps in the savegame, along with an example (and I'm also asking for advice concerning my experience).

I thought I was ready to try to push a system from Fair to Good.... I chose Lambda, my impression from the first time I visited was that it was MAYBE just a LITTLE safer than Olympus.

I had over 37 million credits. Rating = 130 skilled (fairly low, I know).

A strong Raven with 0 assembly points left; relevant to combat and defense:
Maxim-R / Coil Laser (picked up in Cerulean system)
Cannon Relay Sys
4x Starfire missiles
Repair Sys C3
Shield Boost X3
5 cargo bays
Shield Class 5

I changed to 1 cargo bay and Shield Class 9, assembly points left = 0. Cargo bay was of course empty, and I left it empty.

Went to Lambda. I actually picked up on exactly how to bribe (Reds) fairly quickly. For a newbie, it's nerve wracking trying to bribe a ship who is shooting at you, when you have to do it in the trading console and you have to initiate the trading console at < 1000 meters distance. Good thing I upgraded to Shield 9 - my ship was actually fairly strong, I was taking hits from missiles and gunfire; but learned (better) how to use countermeasures, how to afterburn to a Red and quickly bribe them before they shot me up too bad. I was overjoyed when the first Navy Red changed from red to yellow.

QUESTION: So in the game, you can't bribe yellows? I tried, got no voice messages of any kind, didn't catch whether they actually took my money. Confirm please; in ER, the player is only meant to bribe Reds?

Bribed a lot of red Navy, a couple of red Energy. Energy ships stopped showing up as reds. Eventually, most of the Navy ships were green, and hostile Navy was becoming rare.

Started doing Navy and Energy contracts (NOT combat contracts, I didn't think I was ready for that). Scan / or / recover this object, deliver this cargo to a transport....

Bribed the occasional Red Navy....

Navy Rep (News Console) climbed to 100% and wasn't getting any higher after more bribes and Navy contracts, Energy was fairly high, so was Miners...

Rep for Rebels and Guild was at 0%; had been for a while, I noticed early in this process that they dropped to 0% fairly quickly....

I killed a couple of random Rebels...

Kept at it and kept at it - I must have done over 15 bribes, possibly more, maybe 3 Energy contracts and 4 or 5 Navy contracts...

One Navy Red showed up, I opened the trade console; rapid fire missiles (4 or 5 suddenly) tore at me, I died. All that work down the drain (when I could have been quicksaving, except that quicksaving would not have done any good).

A couple of things, maybe could use some advice on one, confirmation and the benefit of more experienced players on the other point;

(1) I consistantly bribed 200,000 Cr. This never failed - initially turning Red Navy (and intially Red Energy, but as I said Energy-as-Hostile stopped fairly quickly) - to yellow, and then they were all immediately going to Green.

For the goal of improving SYSTEM rep from Fair to Good - should I have been bribing with higher amounts?

(2) With that last Navy Red... it occured to me almost immediately that if I had afterburned around him a bit until he shot off all of his missiles, I might have survived the encounter (unless he had massive guns...). I was too quick to open the trade console at < 1000 meters, I should have "baited" him a little (by running around) to exhaust his missile supply.

Any tactical advice along these lines?

Thanks.

[Edited on 1-10-2009 by Storm]

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:07 am

QUESTION: So in the game, you can't bribe yellows? I tried, got no voice messages of any kind, didn't catch whether they actually took my money. Confirm please; in ER, the player is only meant to bribe Reds?

Correct, yellow and green ships aren't threats and won't consider bribes.

(1) I consistantly bribed 200,000 Cr. This never failed - initially turning Red Navy (and intially Red Energy, but as I said Energy-as-Hostile stopped fairly quickly) - to yellow, and then they were all immediately going to Green.

For the goal of improving SYSTEM rep from Fair to Good - should I have been bribing with higher amounts?

No, any shift from red to yellow or green gives you the reputation credit you need.

(2) With that last Navy Red... it occured to me almost immediately that if I had afterburned around him a bit until he shot off all of his missiles, I might have survived the encounter (unless he had massive guns...). I was too quick to open the trade console at < 1000 meters, I should have "baited" him a little (by running around) to exhaust his missile supply.

Any tactical advice along these lines?

That's a good tactic. Another option is to fly nearly perpendicular to their course at around 2000-3000 speed with the IDS off starting at a range of maybe around 1500 so that their approach eventually brings them in range (slowly though, not too quickly, which is why you want to be close to a perpendicular angle), then holds them at a distance for a while. The high speed will help give you time to use countermeasure if needed and force any missiles to make a sharp turn to keep their heading, bleeding off some of their momentum as they approach. May take some practice, but this can give you a little more time to manage the trade console for sending the bribe.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:32 am

Originally posted by Vice
QUESTION: So in the game, you can't bribe yellows? I tried, got no voice messages of any kind, didn't catch whether they actually took my money. Confirm please; in ER, the player is only meant to bribe Reds?
Correct, yellow and green ships aren't threats and won't consider bribes.

(1) I consistantly bribed 200,000 Cr. This never failed - initially turning Red Navy (and intially Red Energy, but as I said Energy-as-Hostile stopped fairly quickly) - to yellow, and then they were all immediately going to Green.

For the goal of improving SYSTEM rep from Fair to Good - should I have been bribing with higher amounts?
No, any shift from red to yellow or green gives you the reputation credit you need.

(2) With that last Navy Red... it occured to me almost immediately that if I had afterburned around him a bit until he shot off all of his missiles, I might have survived the encounter (unless he had massive guns...). I was too quick to open the trade console at < 1000 meters, I should have "baited" him a little (by running around) to exhaust his missile supply.

Any tactical advice along these lines?
That's a good tactic. Another option is to fly nearly perpendicular to their course at around 2000-3000 speed with the IDS off starting at a range of maybe around 1500 so that their approach eventually brings them in range (slowly though, not too quickly, which is why you want to be close to a perpendicular angle), then holds them at a distance for a while. The high speed will help give you time to use countermeasure if needed and force any missiles to make a sharp turn to keep their heading, bleeding off some of their momentum as they approach. May take some practice, but this can give you a little more time to manage the trade console for sending the bribe.

Thanks, Vice, that clears up a couple of things. And especially that last point, I am starting to "think like the game" now.

Although, during that situation I was excited to see Guild and Rebels drop to 0%, Navy climb to 100%, Energy pretty high (I forget where, but in the 90's) and Miners pretty high.... I kept telling myself "any time now, this system will go from Fair to Good"... I kept checking the nav console in case I missed a message - the boost never came.

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:52 am

One of the changes for the next update is a much more generous transition range. The current system can be difficult to make the switch, sometimes taking 5 contracts, sometimes taking 15 or more. The new format will be much easier to cause a reputation shift with when your faction reps are at that level.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:09 am

Thanks, Vice.

I appreciate the problems and effort involved (it will require a change in * savegame format *, I wouldn't be suprised if you announce that pre-update savegames will not work, and that one has to start a new pilot - unless that update can compensate and load the old-version savegame anyway).

In the meantime I am dropping the goal of improving system reps; and learning when to fight and when to run for the gate.

"God, grant me the SERENITY to blow up the stuff that I can,
To run like a little girl to keep from getting blowed up,
and the guile to push the odds in my favor"
I am a LEAF ON THE WIND!!!

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:12 pm

Legacy compatibility will be coded into the system, so it will automatically update old profiles to the new format. It's something I often do with version updates that include such changes, I don't want you to have to start over

It's always a good idea to back up your pilot profiles anyway though, even under normal gameplay use. That way, if something goes wrong with your hard drive or you want to move profiles to a new computer you get, you've got a back up to work from. A thumb drive or even a floppy disk (anybody still use those?) work great.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:22 pm

Yep - got one. When I insisted on have a 3 inch floppy in this system, the stupid builder said "What do you want one of THOSE for?" I back up my favorites / bookmarks on flappy (er... floppy) whenever I change them .... back up some other things. Its just convenient.

I back up my pilot to another folder I have on Evochron Renegades every once and a while (I have a lot of content there, the downloaded Strategy Guide page, your websites media secion (screenshots, video), maps, etc.). Occasionally I will back that folder up to a DVD.

I am definitely purchasing Evochron Legacy when it is released!

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:11 am

Does killing regular hostiles outside of contracts improve rep? and does my favourite prey the capitol ships offer more than regular enemies?

~Anubis~

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:07 pm

Anubus;

Setting your character color to blue is very hard to read... had to highlight your post to see it. Unless you intended it as a way of not giving away spoilers....

Yes, killing hostiles (just Rebels and Guild) outside of contracts improves system reputation. As a matter of fact, if you go to some systems (Mainly "Moderate" systems, from what I've noticed), you might see some YELLOW and GREEN Rebel and Guild ships - destroying them intentionally *seems to me* to gain a lot towards System rep.

Your favorite prey = capitol ships... if you are trying to improve your rep towards "Good", I've never seen a Rebel or Guild Capital Ship. And you want to PROTECT Navy, Energy and Miner ships. I've never seen Miner Capital Ships.

Bad factions = Rebel, Guild.
Good factions = Navy, Energy, Miners.

tk7223 · Post by **tk7223** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:54 pm

It might also be an idea to have something in the game that will 'flag' you temporarilly when you are under contract for a faction mission. If I'm under a mission to deliver recovered goods to the navy, it just doesn't make sense that they will attack me before I give em back thier lost shipment. Now...that might make the rebels target me...but it seems more realistic and could help with the rep. building process?

Just a thought from a newbie player

Post by **Vice** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:57 pm

This should (mostly) be the case in the 1.988 build, previous builds may not have this apply.

tk7223 · Post by **tk7223** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:29 pm

Well...not sure how to check my version, but I downloaded the full game not more than 2 weeks ago. After playing today-- I went to Lamda and purchased a station license and grabbed a job for the navy, before I could clear the station I was being targeted by navy ships. I managed to jump before any missles got close, but I couldn't finish the contract before they caught up with me and took me out. So..I'm thinking this isn't working for me. Unless I'm missing something

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:37 am

Originally posted by tk7223
Well...not sure how to check my version, but I downloaded the full game not more than 2 weeks ago. After playing today-- I went to Lamda and purchased a station license and grabbed a job for the navy, before I could clear the station I was being targeted by navy ships. I managed to jump before any missles got close, but I couldn't finish the contract before they caught up with me and took me out. So..I'm thinking this isn't working for me. Unless I'm missing something

When you load the game and get to the menu ("Training" "Launch" "Multiplayer" ... "Exit"), the version is in the lower right corner under "View Instruction" (in white) - it is kind of hard to see.

One minor suggestion (if there are going to be more updates), make the version number some other color than white. Yellow maybe. Or better yet purple.

tk7223 · Post by **tk7223** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:39 am

Ok..got the latest and greatest version running. I was actually able to get a Navy Mission done in Lambda. But shortly after I got wiped out and something really strange happend. When I loaded last save back in Saph---Everyone was attacking me...I mean everyone! I had to exit with out saving and reload the game. I did a repeat(of my death in Lambda) just to see what would happen and sure enough the whole Saph system is hostile to me. I did have time to look at my rep the 2nd time and it said 'good' but all factions had nothing listed and showed red.

Post by **Vice** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:35 pm

If you'll send me your profile, I'll take a look.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:25 pm

TK7223;

I hope you get your problem fixed - that one sounds weird (re: hostility in Sapphire). Chances are, its another universedata.txt glitch, minor, easy to fix. Given the details you provided, it sounds like somehow Sapphire is "inheriting" characteristics when you travel from Lambda to Sapphire (Dunno all the details... is that what happens, when you gate from Lambda to Sapphire?)

Anyway ... about contracts.

If you are in a Fair / Moderate / Hostile system, there WILL be Red ships all around, and some of them WILL be Navy ships. If you buy a station license, they are not AS MUCH of a problem (I usually cancel the station license when I get the rep to "the high side of Fair").

When you take a contract, it isn't like those Red Navy ships are going to just "go away" - they will still be there. You need to use your afterburners & good flying to get out of the area, and away, headed towards the nav point (and out of missile range of the closest hostile)... THEN jump to the navpoint.

When you get to the navpoint, some Red Navy ships might show up even if you ARE ON a Navy contract.

I've had to be careful (especially in Hostile systems) to ONLY destroy the Rebel or Guild ships (whichever the mission target is), and NOT to hit any red Navy, Energy or Miner ship in the area.

Its just a part of the game.

As your rep improves, the ratios will improve, and the only hostiles that you see will be Rebel and Guild. Takes a lot of tricky work.

tk7223 · Post by **tk7223** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:43 pm

Vice, Thanks for the offer - I didn't want to wait around so I just kept going back to Lambda and selling Plat from Saph & grabbing quick missions for navy on my way back out to Saph. I'm saving my game once I get back to safe side of Saph/lambda jumpgate. So far, I've not had a repeat of the 'dogpile' effect again. Storm--Thanks for the heads up on the guild & rebel ship stuff...been picking those off when they are close to a nav point and solo. Next time I run into a wierd effect like the 'dogpile' thing-I'll save a backup copy of my profile for you to check out Vice. Thanks!

[Edited on 1-25-2009 by tk7223]