Rep Assistance....

[Storm]

First, I did read the sticky here on Global/Faction rep... and read the documentation.

and in this thread:
http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3801

partial quote from that thread:
"Your global reputation is saved, but your individual faction reputations can change if you leave the game before completing a global transition. Usually, it just returns to levels closer to defaults for the global reputation you are at. One reputation tier is long term and relates to a broad spectrum of performance results, that is your global reputation. The others are short term, earned per session and keep track of immediate/recent actions and activities, those are your sub-reputations."

Okay, so approximately (rule-of-thumb) when would a "global transition change" occur? After approximately how many contracts? This basically means that to see a benefit, a player has to play the game and do contract after contract in one session before exiting? (I save after almost everything important, but how long do I need to play before exiting?)

I have yet to recieve an in-game notification (mentioned in documentation) that a rep boost has occurred. I've done about 22 contracts (spread among Energy, Navy and Miners in Sapphire). I realize that it probably takes more than this, but I'd like to get a feel for how many "rapid fire" "one contract after another" sessions I should do to see a benefit. This is about 22 *total* so far, with exiting the game.

I've also noticed from the News Console that reps don't always make sense. I do 3 or 4 navy contracts and navy rep doesn't budge. But I save and exit, later return, and then navy rep is much higher upon entering the game? Im a little confused.

Next thing - I entered Olympus for the first time. I was attacked by two Navy(!) ships on the way to my chosen destination (I just ran away and outran the missiles with afterburning). But I checked - my navy rep is pretty good? So why are they attacking me? Anyway, I docked at the station off of Olympus Prime, took a navy contract to patrol an area and destroy some hostiles (4 ships). I was stalked by ANOTHER navy ship on the way out, I afterburned, panicked, left a cloud of countermeasures... then just fulcrumed to the waypoint. They creamed me. No big deal - that was my first combat encounter, I will eventually learn how to fight a squad of hostiles.

But my main question is why is the navy shooting at me? To make them stop, I do contracts for the navy, right? (while they stalk me in the meantime). And to change their mood permanently, I have to manage to do this (successful contracts) a certain minimum number of times in a single session before I exit?

Okay - I've run across the subject of "bribing" - how does one do that? I'm guessing the Trade Console (F4)?

(edit) Okay, I must have missed it before; I found the method for bribing in the game manual.

Okay, so does bribing just calm down that ONE ship - or would it (pray tell) affect reputation (Im guessing that bribing has nothing to do with rep or OTHER ships of that faction, that bribing will just stop that ONE red from attacking - IF the bribe is successful).

ballpark figure - how much for a successful bribe?

I mean obviously I am not gonna say "here take 1 credit leave me alone", but I don't want to fork over everything I have earned so far either.

- Thanks

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Storm]

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Storm]

[verbosity]

If you're not doing combat contracts it'll take more do raise the 'faction' reps. 4 or 5 contract reps alter your rep by about 5-10%.

There are other factors outside your control that will effect your rep, possibly avoiding combat helped your rep with the navy a little ( or perhaps they just fogot about you while you were away.)

Bribing will affect your rep with a faction, but it will take quite a bit of cash to really effect it.

ballpark figure? can't really give one, it depends on your rep, ship and current cargo, start at around 200k and work up.

Edit
if you need some points for combat pop into mp, pretty much anyone from NS or SW will help you out, and most of the time there is someone around

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by verbosity]

[Lunaraia]

Indeed, although some u should stay clear from, like Romulan, he either flees or tries to kill you and he never says a word

[verbosity]

Originally posted by Lunaraia
Indeed, although some u should stay clear from, like Romulan, he either flees or tries to kill you and he never says a word

I wouldn't worry about him too much

[Lunaraia]

True, however better to warn him before Romulan get the jump on him, he's sneaky after all

[Storm]

Originally posted by verbosity
If you're not doing combat contracts it'll take more do raise the 'faction' reps. 4 or 5 contract reps alter your rep by about 5-10%.

There are other factors outside your control that will effect your rep, possibly avoiding combat helped your rep with the navy a little ( or perhaps they just fogot about you while you were away.)

Bribing will affect your rep with a faction, but it will take quite a bit of cash to really effect it.

ballpark figure? can't really give one, it depends on your rep, ship and current cargo, start at around 200k and work up.

Edit
if you need some points for combat pop into mp, pretty much anyone from NS or SW will help you out, and most of the time there is someone around

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by verbosity]

200k - thats just too much.

Okay - I am still confused as to why *Navy* ships attacked me in Olympus for no reason.

[verbosity]

you could probably go lower, I gave that figure as its the minimum I've ever bribed, but I don't do it much, if I ever play sp, they all bribe me instead!

you'd need a 100% ( or very near) for them to not attack you......

[Lunaraia]

For some reason you can have a rep of 95% and still have that faction wanting you dead, it's just how it is

[Storm]

Hmmm.. okay, I guess its just a mystery.

I went to Fauston system.... some navy ships were red and some were green. There were too many reds trying to kill me at once and I had to constantly have the afterburners on - otherwise it would have been interesting to see if the Green Navy ships were attacking the Red Navy ships.

Its almost as if there are subfactions within the navies - maybe so because when I take contracts in Sapphire, it might say "(Planet Name) Navy needs...." as if perhaps different planets had their own navies and some (for some reason) will hate you in those hostile systems. So this makes the GLOBAL navy rep in the News console confusing. If you try to placate them with contracts, its problematic - your HUD only indictates "NAVY", not WHICH navy.


[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Storm]

[tha_rami]

Local factions (the Navy, Miners, Energy, Clan & Rebels) are local to each system. Your reputation with them changes barely over time. On the other hand, your global reputation is built upon more generic data, like amount of money gathered, number of kills. Your global reputation is summarized in your Rank.

Do note, contracts are always local to the system your in. The reputation displayed in your News console, too, is local to the system you're in.

In theory, even with a 99% reputation with any faction some ships can be hostile to you. Personally, I'd like to see that changed a bit so that at 85, you'll only encounter Yellow or Green ships.

A message? I know nothing of a message. Would actually be quite handy, if some warning appeared if your reputation with a certain faction drop below a certain treshold, or reaches a treshold.

[Edited on 7-1-2009 by tha_rami]

[Storm]

Originally posted by tha_rami
Local factions (the Navy, Miners, Energy, Clan & Rebels) are local to each system. Your reputation with them changes barely over time. On the other hand, your global reputation is built upon more generic data, like amount of money gathered, number of kills. Your global reputation is summarized in your Rank.

Do note, contracts are always local to the system your in. The reputation displayed in your News console, too, is local to the system you're in.

In theory, even with a 99% reputation with any faction some ships can be hostile to you. Personally, I'd like to see that changed a bit so that at 85, you'll only encounter Yellow or Green ships.

A message? I know nothing of a message. Would actually be quite handy, if some warning appeared if your reputation with a certain faction drop below a certain treshold, or reaches a treshold.

[Edited on 7-1-2009 by tha_rami]

From the online Strategy Guide (I archived it on my HD):
The game will report to you when there is a change in your overall reputation in a system, which is a good time to save your progress as it can take a lot of effort to make major changes to your overall reputation.
... the game manual that is installed (ReadMe.htm) contains the same statement, and I think Vice also said as much in a thread (check the thread on page 2 or 3 "saving my reputation"; the link is at the beginning of THIS thread).

(and not specifically related to "The Message" but I'll include it):
Long term loyalty to a faction can provide overall reputation benefits, while short term contract completing can result in losing progress you've made in building your reputation. If you leave before you achieve an overall reputation shift, then you've pretty much abandoned the reputation you were working toward and your reputation can fall a bit. Not always, but it can return to more average values because the faction's interest in you will quickly diminish if you stop working for them and they'll be on to hiring the next, possibly more loyal, long-term mercenary to work for them. If you want to use contracts as a way to shift your reputation, be consistent, work for them long enough to make it worth their time and investment to know they can count on you, otherwise, you'll just appear like a system hopper who only works a few jobs, then moves on, which won't help your reputation much. Loyalty and consistency is rewarded with the game's reputation system.

This also ties in with my question on saving the game and exiting... apparantly if you haven't "worked enough on reputation IN A SINGLE SESSION", all the work you DID you (in that session) is lost... unless you worked enough to bump up a new global rep value (in that system then?) based on some threshold. Re: the sticky by Vice on "global / faction rep and how it works"

I think this still needs complete explanations, with at least enough info to help in achieving goals... IE HOW MUCH work is required to PERMANENTLY enhance rep?

(and IS THERE a message or not?)

(edit)
I just looked over the sticky by vice on Reputations, Global and Faction...";

an excerpt:
... advancing your reputation to the next level. Once a transition occurs, you will be notified on your HUD and your faction reputation levels will reset for ...

and again, it brings up that worrisome point about having to do AT LEAST a certain threshold of rep development IN A SESSION before quitting the game.


[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Storm]

[tha_rami]

Exactly, you're absolutely right - it does say that, and yet I swear that I've never seen such a message appear on my HUD.

Vice, time to explain, what's the truth?

[verbosity]

Originally posted by tha_rami
Exactly, you're absolutely right - it does say that, and yet I swear that I've never seen such a message appear on my HUD.

Me neither, but I play MP ( and that affects it) but if anything I should have a game-hostile rating

('cept in vonarion, they seem to like me there, must be my hairy palms )

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by verbosity]

[Vice]

IE HOW MUCH work is required to PERMANENTLY enhance rep?

That depends on where you are starting from and what you do. You can effectively increase or decrease your reputation just by attacking certain ships, which often has a different timeframe than performing contracts (which is typically a little faster). You can also use bribing to effect your reputation, although it can be more difficult and slower. The goal you want to achieve to complete a transition in your global reputation is to get Navy and Energy groups above at least about 85-90% with Rebel and Guild groups below about 10-15% and keep them there for a few cycles. The chart in the reputation thread ( http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3448 ) gives you a visual representation of this concept. Once you get the needed reputation values, it's usually just a matter of a short time before the transition occurs, often a matter of 5-15 or fewer contracts or destroying a few more hostile ships (with the right group affiliation).

and IS THERE a message or not?

Yes, the messages are:

""
""

[verbosity]

Q. if I go from hostile to moderate, how does that effect my 'faction' reputation? I'm guessing it must change otherwise I'd be able to go straight from hostile to good?

[Vice]

They reset to 'middle' values offering a gauge for progress toward the next tier. From the link above:

Once a transition occurs, you will be notified on your HUD and your faction reputation levels will reset for the new global reputation level (usually around 50% or so, indicating the middle of the new global level).

[tha_rami]

Okay, whoa. That was a lot of unclarity. It's a good system, but how is it possible I've never seen such a message before during all my playing time?

[Edited on 7-1-2009 by tha_rami]

[verbosity]

Originally posted by tha_rami
Okay, whoa. That was a lot of unclarity. It's a good system, but how is it possible I've never seen such a message before?

'cause no-one likes you ? (j/k)

[tha_rami]

That must be it. Could it still have to do with wiping out the entire Pices navy? They really should get over that.

[Storm]

Originally posted by Vice

IE HOW MUCH work is required to PERMANENTLY enhance rep?

That depends on where you are starting from and what you do. You can effectively increase or decrease your reputation just by attacking certain ships, which often has a different timeframe than performing contracts (which is typically a little faster). You can also use bribing to effect your reputation, although it can be more difficult and slower. The goal you want to achieve to complete a transition in your global reputation is to get Navy and Energy groups above at least about 85-90% with Rebel and Guild groups below about 10-15% and keep them there for a few cycles. The chart in the reputation thread ( http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3448 ) gives you a visual representation of this concept. Once you get the needed reputation values, it's usually just a matter of a short time before the transition occurs, often a matter of 5-15 or fewer contracts or destroying a few more hostile ships (with the right group affiliation).

and IS THERE a message or not?

Yes, the messages are:

""
""

Thanks - its still a little vague.

What do you mean by "cycles"?

"Navy and Energy groups"; caveat / review, that DOES include miners? So do contracts for Navy, Energy, Miners to improve rep....

"Attacking certain ships"/ "different time frame";

Is just ATTACKING them sufficient?

So, if I travel to Olympus from Sapphire, run from the *RED* Navy ships, find a Rebel or Guild ship and kill it (and again will just attacking it work?), then escape back to Sapphire for safety, save the game (just in case), then rinse/repeat? Is this effective? (my impression from your words is that working contracts is more effective).

Again - why are there Red AND Green navy ships in Olympus? How can I do contracts there?

The issue on exiting the game too soon in one session, work-per-session.... ? It almost seems like trying to work to improve reputation is a useless endevour, unless I am missing something...

(edit)
BTW, I searched the newbie threads and found a LITTLE more info on bribing. Apparantly 7-10 bribes " ... before you start to see your reputation improve ... ". There was something in a thread to the effect " ... I recommend 50% over the minimum amount ..." (what is a minimum amount? I guess I just have to try it - I dunno). One person said something about doing 20 bribes spread over about 2 million credits... (or was it 20 million) - doesn't sound worthwhile.



[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Storm]

[Vice]

but how is it possible I've never seen such a message before during all my playing time?

Game checks for callsigns with %rami% and then rejects any positive reputation gains. Hehe, just kidding. You're probably leaving the area or the game before you get to the next tier.

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Vice]

[Storm]

Originally posted by Vice

but how is it possible I've never seen such a message before during all my playing time?

Game checks for callsigns with %rami% and then rejects any positive reputation gains. Hehe, just kidding. You're probably leaving the area or the game before you get to the next tier.

[Edited on 1-7-2009 by Vice]

Okay - info! "leaving the *AREA* or the game before the next "tier". That implies (for example) that to improve rep with, say, the "Red Navy" in Olympus, one has to work ones rear off in Olympus to improve rep WITHOUT DYING (because dying = exit) and WITHOUT EXITING THE GAME until the rep improves - and NOT leave Olympus until its done?

[Vice]

What do you mean by "cycles"?

Cycles of events. You destroying a ship. You completing a contract. You bribing a ship. Each one of these is treated as a pass-through 'cycle' by the game's reputation system (it calls the update routine to check on the status of local reputations, then adjusts/updates as needed).

"Navy and Energy groups"; caveat / review, that DOES include miners?

Not necessarily, miners have a minimal impact. I left them out so you can focus on the two groups that make the most difference. You can focus on just Navy and Energy groups to improve your reputation while completely ignoring miners (they generally follow the lead of the Energy groups anyway). But you can include miners if you want a third option to improve local reputation and you can't find anything for the Navy or Energy groups.

Is just ATTACKING them sufficient?

Yes. Slower, but sufficient.

So, if I travel to Olympus from Sapphire, run from the *RED* Navy ships, find a Rebel or Guild ship and kill it (and again will just attacking it work?), then escape back to Sapphire for safety, save the game (just in case), then rinse/repeat? Is this effective? (my impression from your words is that working contracts is more effective).

No that's not effective, because you left the system. You are forgotten quickly in the game if you don't stick around to profit from your efforts. This is the 'system hopping' action the description is referring to. If you stay in Olympus and continue to do the same thing with other Rebel and Guild ships you find, then you'll see your reputations start to move. Yes, contracts are often a little more effective for a couple reasons. First, they give you more reputation credit. Second, they give you the exact location of a bunch of ships you can destroy to improve your reputation all at the same time.

Again - why are there Red AND Green navy ships in Olympus? How can I do contracts there?

Remaining hostile ships from the pool. If you don't have a 'Good' global reputation, you're likely to encounter (at least a few) hostile Navy ships. Select the contract from the faction you are trying to improve your reputation with. Who you work for determines who you are given positive reputation credit for.

The issue on exiting the game too soon in one session, work-per-session.... ? It almost seems like trying to work to improve reputation is a useless endevour, unless I am missing something...

Not useless, but difficult (a strong player request when I initially added the feature about a year ago). However, I think it has turned out to be too difficult in many situations, often requiring 20-30 minutes of gameplay (per session) before a change occurs. It has not yet been announced, but one of the changes I have planned for the next Renegades update is back-porting the reputation system from Legends, which saves your local reputation status with your other profile stats and aligns individual ship reputations with each faction value better. This is no small task though, it requires some major code porting (and very careful testing to make sure nothing breaks), so it will take a while. But this is on the to-do list for the next update to Renegades.

[Storm]

Vice - thanks, its a little clearer now, some things *definitively* confirmed.

[tha_rami]

Game checks for callsigns with %rami% and then rejects any positive reputation gains.

Wow, Renegades surely is realistic. It's almost like real life!