MultiPlayer tweaks

[Berdyon]

Hey All,

I've been playing a couple of MP games lately and I came across a number of points that I think decrease gameplay in MP. Now, I know multiplayer is not one of the spearpoints in this game but I do think it has a lot of potentiel and that if some of there points were to be adressed it would help a lot.
Would like to hear your opinions.

1. Available contracts don't change.
Yesterday Cynical and I completed a solar clean contract for 17.300. When we returned to the station, that exact same contract was available. Apart from the fact that I thought completing contracts should steadily increase rewards, the diversity of available contracts didn't change. After a few more contracts Cynical and I flew to another station in the hope of finding an other type of contract or a contract that would pay more, no luck, still the cleaning contract for 17.300 was the best option. Also a visit to Sapphire planet showed the exact same 3 contracts...

2. No death messages.
Actually noticed this with Vice in the game. When Hazz crashed into an asteroid, all I got to see was that he "joined in ...". So there was no message that he had died, only that he rejoined. Vice told me there would have been a message if he would have been shot. This is good, but I would really like to see a message at every death. Apart from the fact that this can be crucial information at moments (imagine a battle, your friend-in-arms crashes, but you're oblivious and have to find out the hard way by being blown up by the reddies he had been fighting, just one example...), it could also add a portion of humour to the game. It would be good to see "Hazz died". But it would be even better if particular causes of death would be reported. Then you could get "Hazz decided to end it all and crashed into an asteroid". Getting these kind of messages in MP would be very nice!

3. It's possible to achieve same contract multiple times
Apparently when doing a solar clean contract together, you're not actually cleaning the same solar panel. It's at the exact same location, but still not the same. When Cyn and I were cleaning panels yesterday, I kept on finishing first. Cyn got the completed message and cash from my cleaning efforts but continued on with his own panel, and actually completed it again and got paid again. Apart from the fact that this is not entirely fair because I didn't get a second reward, I think it should not even be possible. I would like to be cleaning the same solar panel, and have it completed for all players at the same time.

4. Some missions aren't really suitable for MP
I believe missions like delivering commodities or "find package" are currently not very suitable for MP. If these missions would be adjusted they could be though. For instance the package could not always be at the waypoint, and not even in radar range, so you would need to look for it. Then being with a group of players would definatly be an advantage, ofcourse the pay -off would have to increase some. Not sure what to do with the commodities mission. Also maybe there could be special MP missions, like a race fort instance, I would love to do a racing court against another player (In MP yesterday I was faster than Vice .

5. Joining takes a long time.
It really takes a long time to join. The searching for servers is fast, but when I click on the server it takes about 20 seconds before it says: sending joining request, then it takes about 30 seconds before the game actually loads. Sometimes it doesn't start loading and it takes more like 50 seconds before I get an error that says "IP blocked....". Not sure if this is game or server related. All I know is that it sometimes seems like my system is frozen, not the best way to start a MP game. I can even imagine some players dropping out in this stage.

What do you all think?

Deleted 6th point about a central place with MP server information, Vice already did that apparently in the topic about multiplayer. Great work Vice!

[Edited on 2-29-2008 by Berdyon]

[Vice]

1 - Yup, contracts can be fairly static in the same system. For variety, travel to other systems. Fair and Moderate rated system offer the widest variety of contract options. Good and Hostile offer the fewest.

2 - Death by players are recorded as they are used in stat tracking, suicides are not (at the moment at least) as some players did not want their learning mistakes broadcasted and recorded. I'll add it to the concept list for the next update to see if it's a good option now.

3 - Yup, although this is specific only to the solar array cleaning contract. Should be fixed for the next update.

4 - Distances could be increased, but what you describe is pretty much how it actually works. The object is just placed at the edge of sensor range, so it's sometimes not on the scope until you search for a while near the waypoint. It may be to close though. There is PvP racing in multiplayer already, you set it up in the trade console, the instructions provide more details. And even though my ships is slower, I could probably still give you a good challenge

5 - Not much can be done here, DirectX can be slow to connect and a lot of data needs to be exchanged and loaded. To minimize the delay, the server program should be run on a system that is dedicated to it, with nothing else going on in the background and nothing else using the same connection. Clients should likewise dedicate the system and the connection to the game. Otherwise, packets can get lost or delayed, causing long load times and disconnects. Wireless routers should not be used, they can lose and delay packets significantly.

[rivalin]

Originally posted by Vice


5 - Not much can be done here, DirectX can be slow to connect and a lot of data needs to be exchanged and loaded. To minimize the delay, the server program should be run on a system that is dedicated to it, with nothing else going on in the background and nothing else using the same connection. Clients should likewise dedicate the system and the connection to the game. Otherwise, packets can get lost or delayed, causing long load times and disconnects. Wireless routers should not be used, they can lose and delay packets significantly.

I don't find any problems with using my wireless router with any other games that are far more system resource and information load intensive, I can play battlefield 2142 with 64 players and team fortress 2 with 32 players with zero lag and quick connections, so if wireless routers are not a problem for those games I'm confused as to why they're a problem for any others.

With regard to people being put off by load times, perhaps some sort of loading bar would be in order, it's always good game design to give a progress bar whenever players are made to wait for something to load.

[Vice]

I don't find any problems with using my wireless router with any other games that are far more system resource and information load intensive, I can play battlefield 2142 with 64 players and team fortress 2 with 32 players with zero lag and quick connections, so if wireless routers are not a problem for those games I'm confused as to why they're a problem for any others.

Some are worse than others, but I have yet to find one that performs better, more consistently and more reliably than a direct wired connection. I have tried three different brands and results were always that packets were delivered with variations ranging from about 50-200 ms, meaning gameplay was less accurate and less smooth overall (objects bounce a little more, making aiming more difficult, sometimes your shots failed to register on time with the server, resulting in you not getting credit in time for a hit, etc, etc). Turn on a microwave or another source of interference and problems get worse. Many players probably don't care or notice much, some may just wonder why they are disconnected from various games, some may just wonder why their shot didn't register in time, some setups probably work reliably. It's just not something I recommend for general multiplayer use. I played Halo for a long time and tried to use wireless routers extensively, results were always worse than with a direct wired connection to the modem. Scores were higher, connections more reliable, lag less, and object movements much smoother when I wasn't using wireless. Just my recommendation, not to be the final word on it

With regard to people being put off by load times, perhaps some sort of loading bar would be in order, it's always good game design to give a progress bar whenever players are made to wait for something to load.

Wish I could do just that, but DPlay haults the app as it's trying to make the connection, so I can't really render much while that is going on. But I could probably render a 2 stage loading bar, it just wouldn't have more than about 2 stages of visible change while loading.

[Edited on 2-29-2008 by Vice]

[rivalin]

Originally posted by Vice


Wish I could do just that, but DPlay haults the app as it's trying to make the connection, so I can't really render much while that is going on. But I could probably render a 2 stage loading bar, it just wouldn't have more than about 2 stages of visible change while loading.

[Edited on 2-29-2008 by Vice]

Would be just like the file copy manager on Vista then , most loading bars tend to be rubbish, but people are so used to seeing them that if they just see a static screen sitting there without one, they tend to think the program's not working, I'd guess there's a large number of people who've tried getting into multiplayer, gotten confused by the loading time and ctr+alt+deleted out of the game and never gone anywhere near it again (multiplayer, that is) , the slightest lack of hand holding when it comes to computers makes 98% of people run for the hills.

[Edited on 2-29-2008 by rivalin]

[Vice]

If for nothing else than a feeling of progression, it's worth adding It's on my list.

[tha_rami]

Wholeheartedly agree with all but... 2 and 5.

2 - If you slam your ship into an asteroid. I don't need to know that. Especially seeing that it could result in a lot of clutter. If someone gets shot by AI, I don't care neither. Actually, I don't think those messages are required at all, but they're good to boast ego and for the server.
5 - Not something Vice can do something about - but the loading bar sounds good.

About 4, I'd love to see them placed further away in multiplayer.

[Berdyon]

Originally posted by Vice
1 - Yup, contracts can be fairly static in the same system. For variety, travel to other systems. Fair and Moderate rated system offer the widest variety of contract options. Good and Hostile offer the fewest.

But why are they more static in MP than in SP? In single player I rarely get the same contract for the same price and do see paid prices increase generally.

Originally posted by Vice
2 - Death by players are recorded as they are used in stat tracking, suicides are not (at the moment at least) as some players did not want their learning mistakes broadcasted and recorded. I'll add it to the concept list for the next update to see if it's a good option now.

Will wait for the new list so I can cast my vote

Originally posted by Vice
3 - Yup, although this is specific only to the solar array cleaning contract. Should be fixed for the next update.

Ah, thank you very much.

Originally posted by Vice
4 - Distances could be increased, but what you describe is pretty much how it actually works. The object is just placed at the edge of sensor range, so it's sometimes not on the scope until you search for a while near the waypoint. It may be to close though.

Personally I have always had the package almost spot on the waypoint.

Originally posted by Vice
There is PvP racing in multiplayer already, you set it up in the trade console, the instructions provide more details. And even though my ships is slower, I could probably still give you a good challenge

Great, didn't know that, next time we meet online, we race!

Originally posted by Vice
5 - Not much can be done here, DirectX can be slow to connect and a lot of data needs to be exchanged and loaded. To minimize the delay, the server program should be run on a system that is dedicated to it, with nothing else going on in the background and nothing else using the same connection. Clients should likewise dedicate the system and the connection to the game. Otherwise, packets can get lost or delayed, causing long load times and disconnects. Wireless routers should not be used, they can lose and delay packets significantly.

Yeah, was afraid of that. An animated loading image or so, as suggested, would definatly be an improvement though.

[Edited on 3-2-2008 by Berdyon]

[Vice]

But why are they more static in MP than in SP? In single player I rarely get the same contract for the same price and do see paid prices increase generally.

Pricing should still similarly varied, including increases. But the pool in MP is slightly more limited because a couple of contract types are shifted to a 'multiplayer' mode rather than a single player mode. So for a contract like racing, you actually manage that with other human players through the trade console.

Will wait for the new list so I can cast my vote

I think this will be good to add overall, if anyone has objections to it, please post here.

Personally I have always had the package almost spot on the waypoint.

Yeah, I think you might be referring to a retrieval contract, not a lost object contract. Retrievals are much easier and just involve taking an item from open space and returning it to the station, but they also don't pay very well.

Great, didn't know that, next time we meet online, we race!

Sounds good

Yeah, was afraid of that. An animated loading image or so, as suggested, would definatly be an improvement though.

I'll be adding a small loading bar for the connecting/joining phase, it will have about 3-4 stages overall, so it won't have a lot of detail, but it will at least present a basic progression bar.

[tha_rami]

I think this will be good to add overall, if anyone has objections to it, please post here.

Objections posted above. I think it might clutter, and I wouldn't like to be distracted during gameplay by a:
"Jeremy flew his ship into an asteroid."

Or a:
"<<SW>> Vice blew himself up with a Fulcrum Torpedo".

[Vice]

It would just be a simple < PlayerName was destroyed > message, much like FreeLancer, nothing wordy or too long.

[Archangel]

And players can always hide the message if its in the way with the / key. I think the playername was destoryed message will do just fine. That way if you were flying with that person at the time youll know their no longer there anymore but it dosent voice a mistake, like jumped into an asteroid. Which alot of people probubly wouldnt want anounced.

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by tha_rami
Objections posted above. I think it might clutter, and I wouldn't like to be distracted during gameplay by a:
"Jeremy flew his ship into an asteroid."

Incidentally, this would never, ever, happen.

[tha_rami]

That last remark convinced me. I need to know when Jeremy kills himself so that I can laugh at him about the incident for the rest of his life.

Naah, kidding Jeremy. You know I think you're cool .

[Berdyon]

Well, if people indeed feel embarrased by suicide messages, I guess I'll settle for the "playername was destroyed" message.

But I would still like to say that the messages in America's Army were hilarious and made the game A LOT Better. Always used to laugh my head off, or chuckle at the least, after I fell from the bridge and it stated "Berdyon decided to jump and left a crater..." or something of the like.