I was a sucker: I kept buying the new BC games, thinking that he got it wrong, but he would get it right in the next release. What happened was that it just kept getting harder to use the interface. The graphics got better, but the gameplay got worse. Kinda like Microsoft's operating systems. In BC3000, you had a key that allowed you to switch between roll and yaw axis. That was great. Then, with BC M, it detected that I had a joystick with a twist axis, but the key that let you switch was gone. I asked him where the control was and he said "You have all the controls you need if you have a twist axis." I said that I wanted to switch them because yaw was more important than roll. When I was ignored, I wrote back to say that a space ship wasn't an airplane and should be flown like one, and that, aside from docking, there was absolutely no reason to even have a roll control for space flight.
Ok, sorry for the digression.
I've always thought that part of the economy would be finding out what one system has a plethora of, then bulking up on that item, and then flying it to another system where they lack those things. Maybe you could get minerals aplenty in Rucker and then sell them in Pearl, or some place where asteroids are less common. Aside from certain newsworthy fluctuations in the price index (which seem random) it seems the best tactic is to find the place that pays the most and is relatively peaceful. Pearl, for instance, is great for mining and selling.
If anyone remembers Privateer, it had a nifty economic system. There were agrarian planets, from which you could get cheap food items, and then there were urban planets from whence came the entertainments, industrial junk, etc. Darkstar One tried to copy this system and did OK with it, but there was not a lot of variety. However, knowing you were going to an agrarian planet set up good expectations about what you should buy and how much it should cost.
In ER, the planets do not seem differentiated in terms of how they're used by the clans , and they also seem largely uninhabited. There are outposts on each one, but it is as though all of the planets in the systems were just recently colonized with a single starport, and that's it. Where do they make all the items that you buy?
Minerals
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Skiiwa
- Ensign
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:26 pm
Minerals
I do remember Privateer...Was a Pretty good game. Of course the reason I was playing that game was because I Wanted Elite:)P..Still waiting for elite:)
There Actually is a game that has almost every thing in it that most of us would want. Crafting, Space craft that U can walk around in, and decorate:), Housing on planets of your choice, Minning for that SPEACIAL mineral to make ship parts, ships weapons , houses, clothing etc, BUT the big problem is its Star Wars Galaxies. Landing on a planet is a cut scene, and It has a mothly fee. I want A single player game like SWG but with Better Flight physics and real time planet landings and I would be a happy camper..I also think being able to Mod a game in todays glut of Games being rushed out the door because of Publisher's time contraints Is a MUST..It no longer is an option.( Modding Has turned Bridge Commander into Probly the BEST Large Spacecraft combat game Out...Period)
MMaggio< I'm very intrested in what Vice is going to do when DB is no longer Viable. I never got to far into programing. Art was more my Click, but What I do for a living had put a damper on it. I just changed jobs, so now I have a lot more free time. Im gonna start digging again to see what already made engine is Easy to Mod and Dive in:) I currently Am playing around with Crysis. Its a great looking engine, but seems not able to scale to the sizes needed for A space sim.
Nigel_Strange< I wouldnt even play BCM( I think) because He refused to add the option to reverse the mouse in the first person part of the game. I use a Trackball and I CANNOT play a FPS without that Option. I guess he got enough complaints and finally added it. He is a VERY talented Programmer but like someone else said in this thread, "he has been sitting For to long in front of his little computer and His social skills have suffered"
Chris
There Actually is a game that has almost every thing in it that most of us would want. Crafting, Space craft that U can walk around in, and decorate:), Housing on planets of your choice, Minning for that SPEACIAL mineral to make ship parts, ships weapons , houses, clothing etc, BUT the big problem is its Star Wars Galaxies. Landing on a planet is a cut scene, and It has a mothly fee. I want A single player game like SWG but with Better Flight physics and real time planet landings and I would be a happy camper..I also think being able to Mod a game in todays glut of Games being rushed out the door because of Publisher's time contraints Is a MUST..It no longer is an option.( Modding Has turned Bridge Commander into Probly the BEST Large Spacecraft combat game Out...Period)
MMaggio< I'm very intrested in what Vice is going to do when DB is no longer Viable. I never got to far into programing. Art was more my Click, but What I do for a living had put a damper on it. I just changed jobs, so now I have a lot more free time. Im gonna start digging again to see what already made engine is Easy to Mod and Dive in:) I currently Am playing around with Crysis. Its a great looking engine, but seems not able to scale to the sizes needed for A space sim.
Nigel_Strange< I wouldnt even play BCM( I think) because He refused to add the option to reverse the mouse in the first person part of the game. I use a Trackball and I CANNOT play a FPS without that Option. I guess he got enough complaints and finally added it. He is a VERY talented Programmer but like someone else said in this thread, "he has been sitting For to long in front of his little computer and His social skills have suffered"
Chris
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Goatnado386
- Lieutenant Jr. Grade
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:32 pm
Minerals
Yes, back to the subject... we have a problem with mining. So, here are some other potential ideas to entertain:
There's the idea of making more value able ore only attainable in hostile systems. Even though you can make more money by mining Platinum in safe space and driving it over to hostile space, sometimes its not worth the aggrivation and plenty enough money can be made from just eating the profit difference and staying in safe space altogether.
Another thing to consider from a marketing point of view is that our current customers are also a link to our future customers. When we excite our current customer base, they, in turn, will attempt to excite potential customers who will want to try out our product. There is much to see and do in Evochron Renegades. Much more than what appears at first glance. Ultimately, we do not want our players staying in a single solar system and doing the exact same things over and over. That will bore them. A bored customer isn't as likely to go out there and spread the word about our product. We need ways to keep the player on their toes and, in some ways, "motivate" them to explore space. Now, another concept to toss around would be the creation of additional ores (other than Metal, Diamonds, and Platinum) that will be specifically designed from the outset to exist only in hostile space. These new ores should be more valuable and thus would justify being attacked every so often while trying to mine. It would justify leaving the safety of known space and going out to seek new ways to profit from mining.
There's also the idea of having the mining laser only work for a certain amount of time and then it wears out (deleted from player inventory). That will help to offset the monetary balance that is considered, by some, out of whack with mining for ore. This way, the player will always have an investment that must be renewed when mining or when salvaging from wreckage of other ships. It will also help to keep the "Satellite Cleaning" mission from getting too monotonous because even though its a fast, simple job that pays decent, it too would require an investment and motivate the player to pay more attention to how long each cleaning takes since the beam will wear out eventually.
Another idea I had was to have the mining laser do damage to the asteroids. Perhaps an asteroid could be destroyed after it gives up 25 units of ore, reguardless of what kind of ore it turns out to be. That way, a player can't just go AFK and come back 5 minutes later to a completely filled cargo bay with no effort. This would especially help balancing issues in "safe" systems where the player has no motivation to do anything other than go AFK and dump out Metal units in favor of Diamonds or Platinum.
I doubt any one idea will be the ultimate solution. Perhaps mixing and matching from these ideas would help? Let me know what you think!
There's the idea of making more value able ore only attainable in hostile systems. Even though you can make more money by mining Platinum in safe space and driving it over to hostile space, sometimes its not worth the aggrivation and plenty enough money can be made from just eating the profit difference and staying in safe space altogether.
Another thing to consider from a marketing point of view is that our current customers are also a link to our future customers. When we excite our current customer base, they, in turn, will attempt to excite potential customers who will want to try out our product. There is much to see and do in Evochron Renegades. Much more than what appears at first glance. Ultimately, we do not want our players staying in a single solar system and doing the exact same things over and over. That will bore them. A bored customer isn't as likely to go out there and spread the word about our product. We need ways to keep the player on their toes and, in some ways, "motivate" them to explore space. Now, another concept to toss around would be the creation of additional ores (other than Metal, Diamonds, and Platinum) that will be specifically designed from the outset to exist only in hostile space. These new ores should be more valuable and thus would justify being attacked every so often while trying to mine. It would justify leaving the safety of known space and going out to seek new ways to profit from mining.
There's also the idea of having the mining laser only work for a certain amount of time and then it wears out (deleted from player inventory). That will help to offset the monetary balance that is considered, by some, out of whack with mining for ore. This way, the player will always have an investment that must be renewed when mining or when salvaging from wreckage of other ships. It will also help to keep the "Satellite Cleaning" mission from getting too monotonous because even though its a fast, simple job that pays decent, it too would require an investment and motivate the player to pay more attention to how long each cleaning takes since the beam will wear out eventually.
Another idea I had was to have the mining laser do damage to the asteroids. Perhaps an asteroid could be destroyed after it gives up 25 units of ore, reguardless of what kind of ore it turns out to be. That way, a player can't just go AFK and come back 5 minutes later to a completely filled cargo bay with no effort. This would especially help balancing issues in "safe" systems where the player has no motivation to do anything other than go AFK and dump out Metal units in favor of Diamonds or Platinum.
I doubt any one idea will be the ultimate solution. Perhaps mixing and matching from these ideas would help? Let me know what you think!
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Skiiwa
- Ensign
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:26 pm
Minerals
Forums do tend to wander:) As for the AFK Mining, takeing that out would be a big no no. Real Life tends to get in the way of me sitting in front of my monitor for hours on end watching my mining beam do its thing. I think he has the mining balanced just right.
Now all we need is a reason to use ALL we mine. I vote for useing the metals to repair components. Not to sell really, just in the cargo bay so your repair can take place. i n systems were Combat is the norm, metals would be in high demand giving me a reason to fly to dangerous places to sell my metals for MORE than plat is worth since the AI wouldnt want to pick a fight with his hull at 20%:) and he doesnt want to undock just encase some of his bad deeds are waiting outside the docking bay for him. Also that could be a reason for the AI to protect me if I am in a dangerous area with a load of metal because the need it to repair the station, their ships, and ship components...
Of course I see a Major AI upgrade if what I said was to work at all but maybe Vice has some way of doing it a little at a time. Maybe step one could be, if U have the hull repair device, and your hull takes damage then U need metal in one of the cargobays to repair it. Maybe just a ratio of metal to repair amount based on the class of repair device installed?
Think Im gonna give his new build a spin..Laterz!
Chris
Now all we need is a reason to use ALL we mine. I vote for useing the metals to repair components. Not to sell really, just in the cargo bay so your repair can take place. i n systems were Combat is the norm, metals would be in high demand giving me a reason to fly to dangerous places to sell my metals for MORE than plat is worth since the AI wouldnt want to pick a fight with his hull at 20%:) and he doesnt want to undock just encase some of his bad deeds are waiting outside the docking bay for him. Also that could be a reason for the AI to protect me if I am in a dangerous area with a load of metal because the need it to repair the station, their ships, and ship components...
Of course I see a Major AI upgrade if what I said was to work at all but maybe Vice has some way of doing it a little at a time. Maybe step one could be, if U have the hull repair device, and your hull takes damage then U need metal in one of the cargobays to repair it. Maybe just a ratio of metal to repair amount based on the class of repair device installed?
Think Im gonna give his new build a spin..Laterz!
Chris
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Nigel_Strange
- Captain
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:51 am
Minerals
Although I support new ideas in general, these are precisely the kinds of ideas that I was thinking of earlier when I said that other player's ideas for enhancements might ruin the game for me. I don't want a game to become a job (be it mining or whatever) or to have maintenance added to the cost of mining to eat into my profits. Yes: you can make money on mining, but it's really not much, in the grand scheme of things, and it takes a lot of money to buy a new ship when you're starting out. Yes, going AFK to mine is something I do, and it's always risky because someone might attack when you're in the bathroom, but let's face it: we all have to use the bathroom occasionally, right? Why waste that time starting at the asteroid (beautiful as they are)? I mean, another "enhancement" might be to disable the alt+b key so you have to hold the key down to mine. Or, a really great improvement would make you hit the b key as fast as you can, like a rat pressing a lever in a skinner box: the faster you hit the key (and thus wear out your keyboard) the more metal you get! You would have to think about whether or not you want to mine based on the cost of having to replace your keyboard every few months or so.
I will not be micromanaged by a game. Period.
The idea of having exotic minerals in hard-to-reach locations is good, though, and holds a lot of promise. It seems a shame that you can mine only 3 minerals, but on the other hand, if you only have 3 cargo slots, then having 150+ types of minerals wouldn't work too well, unless your cargo bins could hold composite collections of minerals that could be separated at the dock. Otherwise, you'd get 1 particle of platinum, 1 particle of gold, 1 particle of iron, and you'd have to sit there and wait for another one of these minerals to come in, discarding all the diamonds, uranium, plutonium, etc. flying past your hull.
In any case, the only "safe" system for me to mine in is from bins inside an asteroid cave. Everywhere else I go, I have to dodge the occasional trigger-happy AI with a deathwish. I have a couple of bodyguards to protect me while I mine, but they're not 100% effective and they cost more than the stuff I get from mining brings in, so it's already a wash (if not a losing proposition) to mine in peace.
I think some systems would have asteroids of different composition than other systems, and so if you go to a particular area in Rucker, for instance, you should expect to get a lot of plat, which is in high demand in Pearl.
If there aren't any economic centers where certain types of goods are being produced, then it's hard to predict where a particular element will sell.
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Nigel_Strange]
I will not be micromanaged by a game. Period.
The idea of having exotic minerals in hard-to-reach locations is good, though, and holds a lot of promise. It seems a shame that you can mine only 3 minerals, but on the other hand, if you only have 3 cargo slots, then having 150+ types of minerals wouldn't work too well, unless your cargo bins could hold composite collections of minerals that could be separated at the dock. Otherwise, you'd get 1 particle of platinum, 1 particle of gold, 1 particle of iron, and you'd have to sit there and wait for another one of these minerals to come in, discarding all the diamonds, uranium, plutonium, etc. flying past your hull.
In any case, the only "safe" system for me to mine in is from bins inside an asteroid cave. Everywhere else I go, I have to dodge the occasional trigger-happy AI with a deathwish. I have a couple of bodyguards to protect me while I mine, but they're not 100% effective and they cost more than the stuff I get from mining brings in, so it's already a wash (if not a losing proposition) to mine in peace.
I think some systems would have asteroids of different composition than other systems, and so if you go to a particular area in Rucker, for instance, you should expect to get a lot of plat, which is in high demand in Pearl.
If there aren't any economic centers where certain types of goods are being produced, then it's hard to predict where a particular element will sell.
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Nigel_Strange]
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tha_rami
- Commander
- Posts: 890
- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:20 pm
- Location: Netherlands
Minerals
I think Evochron Renegades does have a planet type system. Evochron Alliance had it, and I can't imagine it has been taken out, really. Agricultural, Urban, Military, Infected were some of the types. They could've been more defined, surely. That pretty much goes for the entire economy system.
Economy fluctuations are actually and really influenced by the trades made at the station/planet, not randomly.
Economy fluctuations are actually and really influenced by the trades made at the station/planet, not randomly.
tha_rami - The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
Vlambeer - Dutch indie game studio
Twitter - Weird news, life updates & game-related news
Vlambeer - Dutch indie game studio
Twitter - Weird news, life updates & game-related news
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MMaggio
- Captain
- Posts: 1535
- Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:56 pm
- Location: Jupiter, Fl
Minerals
Yeah, Vice! Why is that? If the "engine" was already in place for the diff types of planets, why couldn't you use it in EvoR. I'm sure there is a good reason, just curious.
\"To kill hubris with humility is a goal rarely achieved by men\"
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Berdyon
- Ensign
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:30 pm
- Location: Netherlands
Minerals
Yo,
---quote---
The idea of having exotic minerals in hard-to-reach locations is good, though, and holds a lot of promise. It seems a shame that you can mine only 3 minerals, but on the other hand, if you only have 3 cargo slots, then having 150+ types of minerals wouldn't work too well, unless your cargo bins could hold composite collections of minerals that could be separated at the dock. Otherwise, you'd get 1 particle of platinum, 1 particle of gold, 1 particle of iron, and you'd have to sit there and wait for another one of these minerals to come in, discarding all the diamonds, uranium, plutonium, etc. flying past your hull.
---
I was actually thinking of the option to be able to select which materials your beam should actually mine. It would be like the beam would still most of the time mine the wrong minerals, but instead of putting it in the cargo hold it just discards it.
I mean, the technology is there:
- alt-b your beam mines untill you drop dead.
- your ship has the techs to recognize materials, how else could it place them in a cargo hold with a label on there and also reserve that cargo hold for that material only?
- Press the hold and it is discarded...
So from a realistic point of few, being able to set which materials to mine would just be one step forward...
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Berdyon]
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Berdyon]
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Berdyon]
---quote---
The idea of having exotic minerals in hard-to-reach locations is good, though, and holds a lot of promise. It seems a shame that you can mine only 3 minerals, but on the other hand, if you only have 3 cargo slots, then having 150+ types of minerals wouldn't work too well, unless your cargo bins could hold composite collections of minerals that could be separated at the dock. Otherwise, you'd get 1 particle of platinum, 1 particle of gold, 1 particle of iron, and you'd have to sit there and wait for another one of these minerals to come in, discarding all the diamonds, uranium, plutonium, etc. flying past your hull.
---
I was actually thinking of the option to be able to select which materials your beam should actually mine. It would be like the beam would still most of the time mine the wrong minerals, but instead of putting it in the cargo hold it just discards it.
I mean, the technology is there:
- alt-b your beam mines untill you drop dead.
- your ship has the techs to recognize materials, how else could it place them in a cargo hold with a label on there and also reserve that cargo hold for that material only?
- Press the hold and it is discarded...
So from a realistic point of few, being able to set which materials to mine would just be one step forward...
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Berdyon]
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Berdyon]
[Edited on 2-18-2008 by Berdyon]
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tha_rami
- Commander
- Posts: 890
- Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:20 pm
- Location: Netherlands
Minerals
And make the game far easier. That would totally drop the use of Diamonds or Metal.
tha_rami - The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
Vlambeer - Dutch indie game studio
Twitter - Weird news, life updates & game-related news
Vlambeer - Dutch indie game studio
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Vice
- Administrator
- Posts: 12227
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:38 am
Minerals
Your beam will already selectively fill a cargo bay with a desired item, if you put one unit of that item in the bay first. Does require a little more player involvement than just clicking a setting to do it, but you can selectively mine by discarding what you don't want when you start to fill each bay.
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Skiiwa
- Ensign
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:26 pm
Minerals
Different classes of lasers maybe..Blue one to mine mostly diamons, green for metals, and purple for Plat? U would still get the occasional other mineral but mostly would pull in based on type of laser.
I actually Like the way he has it now, I just think its such a waste throwing away all that metal and the Occasional Diamond.
Metal=Spacecraft Frame
Diamond=Weapons and Electronics
Plat=Both
To build 1 Tech 1 Laser:
metal=5
Diamond=15
plat=8
$5000
Space Craft Frame 1:
metal=25
Diamond=0
plat=8
$25000
Just an Example of what I mean.
Of course a Very large ship would require WAY more minerals than U can haul in one go, so there would have to be a hangar or somthing like that so U could build up to have your Titan:)
Chris
>Forum messed with my text fromating. Hopefully it will not mess with my text this time<
[Edited on 2-19-2008 by Skiiwa]
I actually Like the way he has it now, I just think its such a waste throwing away all that metal and the Occasional Diamond.
Metal=Spacecraft Frame
Diamond=Weapons and Electronics
Plat=Both
To build 1 Tech 1 Laser:
metal=5
Diamond=15
plat=8
$5000
Space Craft Frame 1:
metal=25
Diamond=0
plat=8
$25000
Just an Example of what I mean.
Of course a Very large ship would require WAY more minerals than U can haul in one go, so there would have to be a hangar or somthing like that so U could build up to have your Titan:)
Chris
>Forum messed with my text fromating. Hopefully it will not mess with my text this time<
[Edited on 2-19-2008 by Skiiwa]
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Skiiwa
- Ensign
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:26 pm
Minerals
Still play that one too..Some good mods were mad for it..IMO it is STILL the Most Accurate space sim ever...(That is fun to play):POriginally posted by jazzylg
How could you guys not mention Independance war:Edge of Chaos? One of my favorite games in freeform mode!
Hmmm, I wonder how my new hotas stuff will work with it? Crapola..I'm never gonna get any sleep heheh
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Mechanical
- Ensign
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:51 pm
- Location: Milwaukee, WI. USA
Minerals
Perhaps different asteroid field could have different 'amounts' of material in that in some systems the mining goes a lot quicker (you pick up a unit more frequently, like it does now when you pan the beam around).
I can definitely see myself scooting off to a hostile sector if I could mine a hold full of platinum in five minutes. I suppose even so it might end up taking the same amount of time considering all of the killing I'd have to do while I mined.
I'm also a big fan of the rare materials idea. There could be an asteroid field out there, in the depths of space, that's made of pure <insert something expensive>. It would just be a question of finding it. Anything that promotes exploration is good in my book.
More on topic though, I've never actually even paid attention to the price of metal in any system. It would be good if there were some use for it. Making it a necessary part of ship upgrades would be difficult because I don't want to have to go mine just to upgrade my ship. Of course, I could just buy some metal, but then we'd be back at square one, credits for upgrades. Then, instead of mining metal, I could just go out and mine some platinum, sell it, and buy more metal than I can carry.
As it stands, everything can be traded for everything else and metal just isn't worth much.
That's a tough one.
ed: Hey! Look who's late to the party!!!
[Edited on 3-17-2008 by Mechanical]
I can definitely see myself scooting off to a hostile sector if I could mine a hold full of platinum in five minutes. I suppose even so it might end up taking the same amount of time considering all of the killing I'd have to do while I mined.
I'm also a big fan of the rare materials idea. There could be an asteroid field out there, in the depths of space, that's made of pure <insert something expensive>. It would just be a question of finding it. Anything that promotes exploration is good in my book.
More on topic though, I've never actually even paid attention to the price of metal in any system. It would be good if there were some use for it. Making it a necessary part of ship upgrades would be difficult because I don't want to have to go mine just to upgrade my ship. Of course, I could just buy some metal, but then we'd be back at square one, credits for upgrades. Then, instead of mining metal, I could just go out and mine some platinum, sell it, and buy more metal than I can carry.
As it stands, everything can be traded for everything else and metal just isn't worth much.
That's a tough one.
ed: Hey! Look who's late to the party!!!
[Edited on 3-17-2008 by Mechanical]
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Vice
- Administrator
- Posts: 12227
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:38 am
Minerals
Keep hunting, that's actually in the game now (version 1.508).I'm also a big fan of the rare materials idea. There could be an asteroid field out there, in the depths of space, that's made of pure <insert something expensive>. It would just be a question of finding it. Anything that promotes exploration is good in my book.
Keep hunting there as well, certain economy types will pay up to 10X as much for metal than others, sometimes even a short distance away. While the selling price for metal is often pretty low, it is the only commodity in the game with a 10X profit potential.As it stands, everything can be traded for everything else and metal just isn't worth much.
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Skiiwa
- Ensign
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:26 pm
Minerals
AWW Crap..Ther be riches in them thar rocks.
Now if we had a scanner to find the REALLY really good ones so I could pop in do a quick scan then pop out;)
Can this game EVER stop getting better
I vote for Dice to hang on my rear view mirror..If we had one
Now if we had a scanner to find the REALLY really good ones so I could pop in do a quick scan then pop out;)
Can this game EVER stop getting better
I vote for Dice to hang on my rear view mirror..If we had one
