Minerals

[Skiiwa]

Thought I would post an Idea for A use for metals. Like everyone else all I do is dump my metals when I mine. Maybe to make metal more useful it could be used in the contruction of a new ship, for instance, if Im going to build a new ship, Instead of minning all plat, I come back with a certain amount of metal needed in the contruction of my new ship...To build the biggest ship U would need all 5 cargo bays full of metal for the shipyard to contruct your freighter?

Just an Idea. I hate dumping all of that shiny metal:)

One other idea is maybe to have different minning beams to mine different stuff.?

I'm sure this has probly been discussed before as the people here seem pretty excited about Vice's Games, as Am I. Seems Elite still is hard to beat. This game comes the closest. I Really like Vice,s Jump system! Much better than elite.

Chris

[tha_rami]

Exactly. I agree Evochron is the clostest to Elite you'll ever see. I agree about the commodities - I think Vice should rethink the system, make each commodity have its own use or at least a use. Besides Platinum, Antimatter and Diamonds, I don't care about the others. I think the economy should be far more dynamic and the base value system should be dropped a bit, plus Systems should go back to having a Type (ie. Agricultural, Urban, Industrial, Military, Infected, Dead) that should be more distinguished and more influential than it is now.

[Tuco]

I would also be cool if you had the option to design your own weapons and hull, etc. not just from a texture/look approach, but from a functional approach.

for example...I want a ship bigger than a leviathan, with weapons bigger and nastier than the fusion and banshee. so...I should be able to go to a shipyard, design it, get a price, and then have it researched and built.

I'd also like to have more equip slots, so I could have all the ship equip installed at the same time. if you have enough cash, you should be able to build and/or buy anything you want.

btw, I traveled all over orion, and couldn't find the green orion slave girls. What's the deal?

that brings up another thought,...what about trading/transporting illegal items...narcotics/firearms/slaves/explosives??

trading in illegal goods could affect your "legal" reputation. lawful, neutral, criminal, etc.

[Agpatch]

Im not sure about getting whatever ship you want if you have enough cash, but i think that the shipping illegal substances could be a very good idea.

[Skiiwa]

I definatly would like to fly a ship the size of a titan(frome Eve). I also think it should take more than money to fly it though. Maybe a trillion kills and or, a Hanger full of Diamonds, Metals and Plat. Rep could also be a limiter.
Idea's I,m sure Vice has no shortage of:)

I love this game and cant wait to see what 3d engine he ends up useing in the future. I played around with DB when it was new and it had a few to many problems for me. I can't believe Vice has done so much with that crappy Language:) <Salute>

Chris

[Goatnado386]

Here is an easy solution for game balancing:

Minerals should be the only thing that you can get from asteroids in safe areas. For instance, the starting system, where you're never attacked while mining.

Minerals and diamonds should be extractable in systems where it is possible to be attacked by fighters, but that are usually weaker variations.

Minerals, diamonds, and platinum should be available only in systems that are highly hostile with pirate activity or the like.

I noticed that since I can safely mine platinum in the starting system, there is no reason to ever leave if I want to be a miner or get cash. Now if all I could get would be minerals, I'd cruise on over to Olympus and try my luck in their asteroid fields for minerals and diamonds. Now, I don't know how Olympus ranks as far as hostilities and combat difficulty goes, but I didn't have too much problems with my non-combat ship. I did, however, have to stay alert so as not to be killed.

Okay, what do you all think?

[Vice]

Interesting. Many players want to be able to mine valuable materials in safe space. However, if you remain there and sell the material, you'll only get a fraction of the pay you would get if you transported it to a more hostile system with a higher value. So there is a motive for travelling to other systems. And if you mine in one of those hostile system and trade there, you'll also save the fuel it would take to transport it from a safe system, giving you more profit in exchange for more risk.

[Skiiwa]

Actually, what i would like even better is to drop off a drone that can mine and make me money while I fly around causeing problems:) In elite, u could drop a miner on a planet and it would let u know when it was full. Its the same thing I would do in BC3000 games. One perk I really liked in Derek Smarts games was that some of the minerals could be used in the repair of your ship.

A thought on mining in dangeous sec. The drones would be very nice for that. While they are mining "hard to get stuff", U are protecting them. I dont like the idea of stoping my mining ops ever few sec that a pirate shows up. with the drones U get best of both worlds. Dont have to stop, U have the option of useing your drone as a decoy, giving u time to run and U get good combat experiance at the same time.

He is right about leaving the sec though..the only reason I have left Saf is because I wanted to build a bigger ship..Of course I was attacked and killed a few times. They finnaly pissed me off and I flew there with a ship equiped to fight and killed a lot of them. I did like the combat but the loot was horrid. Minning Is makeing me far more money without the possability of the loss of my ship, which is really annoying when U havent saved for a bit.

Chris

[Goatnado386]

Wow! You figured out how to play BC3000 and have fun? Please, tell me how! I'm about to start playing soon... just after I finish reading the manual... and creating a study guide for the non-intuitive controls. It looks like it could be fun, but the controls are so poorly designed that I've avoided playing it until now.

I've had words with Derek Smart a few times. While I completely respect his opinion as a game designer and artist, I do not agree with his design philosophy. BC3000 is not a hard game to learn. The concepts involved are moderate in complexity at best. However, the game interface, taken as a whole, is atrocious and could have quite easily been reduced to a fraction of the original required keystrokes without removing a single gameplay feature. However, that is where we differ. Derek Smart thinks that 300+ keystrokes to do the same thing makes a game intellectually stimulating. This is just not true. While mainstream games typically have simplified controls because they are aimed at a casual player, the two concepts do not neccessarily have to go hand-in-hand.

[MMaggio]

I have BC3000 and am using a Saitek X45 programmable controller. While the Saitek allows for an immense number of keyboard commands, the problem is, no normal human can remember 300+ keystrokes and where they are. I was able to reduce some redundancy and get the total key commands to around 168. I then programmed my "voice control" software to handle the commands that are seldom used, like "swim".
I was able to get pretty far into the game that way, but I found it necessary to program "pause" into the voice command to allow me to refer to the manual when necessary, which was often!:o
Anyway, I found BC3000 and Millenium not to be just "games", but more a way of life. To fully appreciate the game and all it's potential requires a dedicated player. As for myself, I just don't have that much perseverance.
I can see where some people might find this game totally engrossing. It's kinda a like a massive MMO but with just you as the player.
Kudos to Skiiwa for playing it!

[Goatnado386]

I wish I could find out more about the game from people who actually play it... people that don't like Derek Smart.

[MMaggio]

Well, I don't know Derek Smart, so I neither like nor dislike him. To me, he is just another programmer trying to come up with what he thinks is an interesting and engrossing game.
That's what they all do. Any game you like is just a game that the author hit on more features that you think are important as opposed to someone else's.
One of my all-time fav's is "Tachyon". Some like it, some don't. I would rather play EvoR than BC3000 or Millenium. It's just a matter of personal preferences. Thank goodness that there are enough authors out there to give us this kind of variety!;)

[Goatnado386]

Originally posted by MMaggio
Well, I don't know Derek Smart, so I neither like nor dislike him. To me, he is just another programmer trying to come up with what he thinks is an interesting and engrossing game.
That's what they all do. Any game you like is just a game that the author hit on more features that you think are important as opposed to someone else's.
One of my all-time fav's is "Tachyon". Some like it, some don't. I would rather play EvoR than BC3000 or Millenium. It's just a matter of personal preferences. Thank goodness that there are enough authors out there to give us this kind of variety!;)

Except only Derek Smart curses at people, posts threats, replies only in a condescending fashion to all pleas for techincal help, and flames customers when they politely (or rudely) post ideas or comments on his games. The stuff I have witnessed on his company forum is usually uncalled for.

Here is a generalized example of what the difference between Derek Smart and Vice is when interacting with a customer who has given feedback that they are not interested in...

Customer: "Hi! I think the game would be more fun if you changed X."

Vice: "No, I like it the way it is. What you have suggested wouldn't work because of A... and B... thanks, though."

Derek Smart: "Are you stupid? Only an idiot would post something like that. I'm tired of all these morons always complaining about this feature because they don't have the brainpower to figure it out. The next [censored] who posts something about X will be banned."

Other than that, yes, they are all the same.

I'm totally going to learn how to play BCMG this weekend and see what its like to do mining on there. I like to mine and to trade.

[Edited on 2-15-2008 by ncc386]

[MMaggio]

LOL! LMAO! It's a shame you had such a rebuff from him. Assuming there weren't any extenuating circumstances, that was rather "boorish" of him. Nontheless,if you apply yourself to the game, you might just find that there is some "method to his madness".
Games are a lot like movies. They are as the author "sees" them and interprets the concept. No one person can make a game that will please everybody. Personally, I found BC3000 & Millenium "too involved" for my taste, but then I don't like MMO's either.
What I'm trying to say is, don't condemn the author 'till you've played enough of his game to know where he's headed. And if you don't like the game, then it's neither his fault nor yours. It's just a matter of preferences.
Have fun...

[Goatnado386]

Originally posted by MMaggio
LOL! LMAO! It's a shame you had such a rebuff from him. Assuming there weren't any extenuating circumstances, that was rather "boorish" of him.

Oh, not me. I know better. There are countless examples on older posts in his company forum. Not only that, but you can find FAQs on the Internet about his obnoxiousness. If you look around, you can find thousands of examples of his inappropriate behaviour that go back 10 years.

Originally posted by MMaggioWhat I'm trying to say is, don't condemn the author 'till you've played enough of his game to know where he's headed. And if you don't like the game, then it's neither his fault nor yours. It's just a matter of preferences.

That's the funny part. If you were to tell him that, he would literally call you a moron and insist that if you don't like his games then you are a [pick a random vulgarity].

I think, and this is just my own theory, that those that like his games simply *tolerate* him. Everyone knows that you generally shouldn't ask for technical support from Derek Smart. You're better off asking other players or just giving up.

[MMaggio]

As I said, I don't know Mr. Smart and never had any dealings with him. On the other hand, I know our "feerless leader", Vice for quite some time and like to think that among programmers, he is unique. I've never known anyone who has shown such patience and tolerance with members who have had nothing else to do than complain about his games. Not only is he an awesome programmer, he appears to be a decent human being as well. That being said, Mr. Smart is a talented programmer, but perhaps he has spent too much time in a dark room in front of a PC and has lost some "social skills". I'm not trying to defend him, I'm just glad that he found the time and desire to forment and design a game that has brought pleasure and entertainment to any number of gamers. I, will not throw stones!

[Edited on 2-15-2008 by MMaggio]

[Goatnado386]

But stones are so much fun to throw! They're small and round and they make a nifty wet thud sound upon impact. I can't sit back. I have to stick up for people if I see them being crapped on... unless they deserve it.

[MMaggio]

Hey! If it makes you happy, and doesn't hurt anyone... knock yourself out!
I'm just a die hard gamer and a die hard supporter of anyone who takes the time to develop and publish a playable game. That doesn't mean I like every game I played, but by god, I buy every one I can find!:P

[Goatnado386]

Where exactly is Jupiter in Florida or is that a joke? I used to live in Longwood which is right outside Orlando. I worked at a automotive racing company a while back.

[49rTbird]

Seems to be about 100 miles north of Miami on the eastern coast.

[Skiiwa]

ncc386>I've played Smarts games every since his first. U are spot on about the interface. Its the Worst I've every used, and ive been playing PC games since the vector graphics days:){Jetfighter, heheh..God I miss Microprose:(..Can anyone do a bloody battle ship game better that Taskforce 1942!! PLEASE!!!} I continued to buy his games and try to play them as no one else was even coming close to ALL the things U can do in his games. I never really got to far because of all the bugs. Be warned now! He has never fixed a minning bug that causes your minners to end up in never never land. Of course its Your fault for not ordering your marines to land on flat terrain or one of another exuses he has. I also keep buying his games because I hoped SOME day he would stop being such a A** and fix his stupid UI. I've pretty much gave up on that one:(

Vice Has impressed me greatly because I looked at DB and didnt think it could do what he has made it do. Of course the version I looked at was probly much older but from some of the stuff he has written ablout the suckieness of DB now I dont think much has changed...He also has hit the sweet spot for ship controls, to realistic and the game would be very VERY Math intensive on the users part(Orbiter anyone?) To simplistic and u get the Terrific, craptasic physics of the BC3000 Franchise.

I really wouldnt care if Vice is an A**, if he could do BC3000 with his physics and Decent UI. It just a plus that he isnt and understands that its in a developers best intrest not to Call your customers MORONS:)

Aw god, Ive written a book!! Sorry Ya'll:) Sighning off now hehehe

Chris

[MMaggio]

Can I tell you a secret Chris...?
The reason Vice can do what he does with DP is because.....Shhh.... I think he might not be.... of this world. If you know what I mean......
P.S. I do have Orbiter loaded and on my Desktop. I can dock, but I cannot land. DOH!

[Edited on 2-16-2008 by MMaggio]

[Archangel]

Well dont know anything about BC, however on the subject of minerals. What Skiiwa said about metal haveing a purpuse other then being discarded all the time seemed like a good idea to me. Ive been thinking about it and trying to come up with something usefull that wouldnt compleatly throw off the game. What I came up with was makeing it so if you brought so much of it to a station you can add assembly points to your ship. I was thinking something like 1000 units of metal for 1 assembly point. That way in order for it to be usefull one would have to forgo earning cash while they worked on colecting it. It would also take a while to build it up to a point whare it would amount to enough points to make an impact on your ship.

I thought adding it as an option on a base that a player owns would work. That way they have to take it to the same base all the time and would also make buying a base more usefull. Now Ive found that alot of people around here tend to change ships frequently to sute their task at the time. So if the points earned were not transferable then one would have to decide what trates they want in a ship before setting out to earn the upgrade points.

I dont know if it would be posible to implement into the game but I do think it would add even more to the long term play ability. Especialy if one had to start it all over again after changeing frames. Doing it that way would also cut down on the odds of someone geting an "uber" ship. As the assembly points dont add hull strength or top speed your still giveing something up even if you manage to max out all your equipment.

I relize it dose impact the curent ballanceing system but I think the impact would be kept to a minimum if it takes alot of metal just to get one point. And since there are alrady restictions on the frames, EX speed, armor, number of missile slots. It requires that players decide what their going to task their ship for and what trates they are going to need before beginging to upgrade it.

As I said it may not even be posible, or could messup the current ballance too much. But was a thought I had.

[tha_rami]

I like that, actually.

[Goatnado386]

A crafting system for ship add-ons would be another viable option.

Grab a copy of SpaceForce Rogue Universe to see this concept in action. It's actually pretty nice being able to construct (for greatly reduced prices) upgrades for maneuverability, speed, shields, weapons, armor, etc, from mining asteroids for hours.

Of course, you may want to consider adding a lot more than just three items from mining. A plethora of metals would probably be required in order to fully flesh out the feature. That would take time and effort.