[Feature Request] Option to save MP chat logs to disk?

[FotonCat]

Today I've finally met player online in the multiplayer since last month!
We had a nice time, performed a little TW fight and of course we talked a lot in MP chat. He provided me with some URL's and information on clans. To save the chat I need to manually roll up message log with mouse and take a screenshot on each "page" which is not comfortable at all.
I think it would be good and easy to implement feature if game wrote the multiplayer chat logs to my disk automatically, for example, to C:/sw3dg/Evochron Legacy/logs/%DATE_TIME%.TXT
Advantages are obvious:
1) You don't need to take a screenshots manually anymore;
2) The information will be stored as the text (as it should be in the case of chat logs ), not the images;
3) You don't lose the valuable information from the other player if you, for example, suddenly disconnect from the server
4) You can always recall what was the topic of your chat with your friends last time by looking into the TXT logs.

It would be great if Vice kindly paid his attention to this problem

Thank you in advance, best regards,
FotonCat

[SolarWarden]

Hey Foton, it was me you played against Good seeing you on here bud. If you want to get to that clan forum I gave you, just click on my signature below and it will take you there. Can't help with the chat thing though... sorry, hehe.

[Marvin]

If Vice were to implement player-side chat-saving (it already exists, host-side), I'd hope it would either be optional or easy to find on the HD so I could delete it.

[SolarWarden]

I tend to agree, that would generate large useless files of text that would be just as irritating to search through for small bits of info. Chat log searches make me want to kick puppies. (Not really, I love puppies).

[DaveK]

How would it work? Would you get a download for every new bit of chat or would it be downloaded as a new version every x minutes? On the server side is the chat stored as an ever increasing text file? Would it be possible to specify a start time/end time and save the appropriate chat?

It seems to me that small amounts of data could just be copied with pencil and paper, or screenshots (I have it set up for a single key press using a program called 'PrintScreen'). I get exactly what I want, no more no less with minimum fuss.

... or am I missing something?

[Marvin]

Well, text files get big ... but don't take up much room (memory-wise). And Notepad has a search function to help sort out which entries are applicable.

[FotonCat]

How would it work? Would you get a download for every new bit of chat or would it be downloaded as a new version every x minutes? On the server side is the chat stored as an ever increasing text file? Would it be possible to specify a start time/end time and save the appropriate chat?

It seems to me that small amounts of data could just be copied with pencil and paper, or screenshots (I have it set up for a single key press using a program called 'PrintScreen'). I get exactly what I want, no more no less with minimum fuss.

... or am I missing something?

You can find answers to most of your questions in the first post. There could be just one log file per day. It's easy to implement and understand. I can save a screenshot juyst pressing one key (F12 in Steam) like you, but text files are more useful and they can assure me that I will not miss anything valuable in the game.
And guys, whining about text file sizes in 2016 is ridiculous!

[DaveK]

I did read your post and think that there is some promise to being able to save chat files ... my post was moving on from that.

! wasn't whining - I am just interested in the practicalities: I think it would be good and easy to implement feature if game wrote the multiplayer chat logs to my disk automatically, for example, to C:/sw3dg/Evochron Legacy/logs/%DATE_TIME%.TXT doesn't give me the practical answer to the questions I raised

I'm not worried about the text file length (I've got 4 x 2TB drives attached - my Evochron folder is 63GB (don't ask )) - I am interested though in how I would get it/them onto my hard drive and how often and under what save rules. A file of everything historical on the server that appeared every time a new chat message appeared but didn't overwrite the original on my drive would end up as hundreds of ever bigger version and players with less speedy internet access than me (70 Mb/s) might suffer an unacceptable performance hit. If (as with my backup programme) I could just download incremental files I would have to search through all of them (eventually thousands of files) to find stuff, though it would give me automatic access to those between specified dates. One file (incremental or full) per day sounds manageable but for much of the chat info I want access to I need it when I need it, usually without waiting up to 24 hours.

I also have confidence that if there is a demand then Vice will create an elegant and practical solution - I'm just interested in people's thoughts about the practical details.

[FotonCat]

I did read your post and think that there is some promise to being able to save chat files ... my post was moving on from that.

! wasn't whining - I am just interested in the practicalities: I think it would be good and easy to implement feature if game wrote the multiplayer chat logs to my disk automatically, for example, to C:/sw3dg/Evochron Legacy/logs/%DATE_TIME%.TXT doesn't give me the practical answer to the questions I raised

I'm not worried about the text file length (I've got 4 x 2TB drives attached - my Evochron folder is 63GB (don't ask )) - I am interested though in how I would get it/them onto my hard drive and how often and under what save rules. A file of everything historical on the server that appeared every time a new chat message appeared but didn't overwrite the original on my drive would end up as hundreds of ever bigger version and players with less speedy internet access than me (70 Mb/s) might suffer an unacceptable performance hit. If (as with my backup programme) I could just download incremental files I would have to search through all of them (eventually thousands of files) to find stuff, though it would give me automatic access to those between specified dates. One file (incremental or full) per day sounds manageable but for much of the chat info I want access to I need it when I need it, usually without waiting up to 24 hours.

I also have confidence that if there is a demand then Vice will create an elegant and practical solution - I'm just interested in people's thoughts about the practical details.

Ok, sorry if I looked impolite.

1) First of all, I think this could be an option which can be enabled in the game settings and anyone who doesn't need this function just can disable it.
2) What exactly shoul be stored in the logs? Only players' messages or all stuff including system messages? In my opinion, it could be easier for Vice to copy this function from the server code with minimal modifications. I mean, for example, writing additional filtering code to save only the players' messages into the TXTs without system messages is not mandatory, because there is not so many system messages at all when you play MP.
3) How many log files there should be? I think, easiest way is to implement this like in all messengers (IRC, for example): another day - another log file with date in it's name.
4) Defining starting and ending times for start and termination of log saving (if I understand you right) only will mess things up
5) Regarding your slow internet connection: You don't need to download additional data. All the messages you see in the chat are already been sent to your client game. I'm just asking Vice for ability to save those messages to HDD.
6) Why you ever think that you will be able to access log of the day only once per 24 hours if the game will simply dump message log to file in real time as they appear on your screen? You can access it anytime after game saves each new message to %date%.TXT. Maybe it can saved once per minute or per second.
If we will imagine a simplest concept of this function in BASIC language, it could look like that:

Code: Select all

if new_message_in_chat then
   open date$+".txt" for append as #1
       print #1,message$
   close #1
end if

[Vice]

A couple of questions to consider feasibility:

1 - Would you be willing to use a simple text file placement option to enable saving the message log? That is, you'd place a blank text file named something like 'messagelogsave.txt' in the game's install folder to activate the option. Or the file could contain a save interval time in seconds.

2 - For optimal gamestate (read/write performance being hindered by third part security software for example), would storing the entire message log upon exit or during a time interval specified in the text file be acceptable, rather than rapid appending every time a message appears?

[Marvin]

It would be for me. As stated above, text files take up very little memory (storage) and Notepad has its own search function. Uses? Off hand, I can think of how much easier it would be to refer back to a text file after being given a URL, email address, book title, YouTube subject, etc., over chat.

P.S. Of course, I use JSGME ... which allows me to swap the file in (to enable) and out (to disable) tracking of chat while in the game.

[DaveK]

Option 1 seems fine - save interval could be useful so that we can each work out what suits our usage of chat text. Would we be allowed to choose the destination folder for the actual chat file? Would each message or block of messages have a date and time stamp to keep track of when it was created?

Option 2: If I find myself in a useful chat heavy situation then I could choose to periodically trigger a save by exiting and re-entering the game (rather than having to reload I hope.) if my chosen default time interval is too long.

[Vice]

The interval option may not be a good way to go, considering how big the message log can get and how long it takes some systems to write that much data out to a text file (even trying to load and append), so storing upon exit may be the best route. To directly answer your questions:

Would we be allowed to choose the destination folder for the actual chat file?

I guess it could be included in the text config file, but by default, it would write out to the save data folder.

Would each message or block of messages have a date and time stamp to keep track of when it was created?

Each complete output file could be given a date and time stamp in its filename.

[DaveK]

That would work for me - I can put a shortcut to the location on my desktop for easy access, exit and rejoin the game if I need to save a copy of the file before I end a full playing session and easily keep track of 'when' a particular chat took place - the date/time to would be a fine enough slice allowing me to find, say, monday morning's chat or see that the data file was created, say, tuesday evening and so on.

[FotonCat]

But if the game will save logs only upon exit (exit from the server or a game at all?), would be log saved if I suddenly disconnect from server?

[Vice]

Yes, it would be designed to be an auto-save event upon session closing.

[FotonCat]

Yes, it would be designed to be an auto-save event upon session closing.

So, maybe it would be good idea to align this function to "Alt+F9" (or another key combination) which would make me ensured that I will not lose the logs?

[Vice]

It could also be linked to saving, if desired, but that will create a much larger array of text files, even for a single play session (if you want date and time stamps in the filenames so a new file entity is created with each output). But if that's the way you want it to work, it can be made to do so.

Edit: Maybe a better approach for the filenames would be to simply use a unique integer value for each file based on a timer anyway, then the inherent timestamp of the file itself can be used to determine its age. Wouldn't necessarily solve the issue of bulk file creation due to frequent save events, but might make them a little easier to sort through chronologically.

Other issues that would need to be considered if you want message log storing to be tied to save events:

1 - You'll need to be careful to remember to save whenever you want a snapshot of the message log.
2 - Saving is not always available, so you may want the message log storage system to operate independently (so it still saves to a file even if the save event can't be completed).
3 - You'll need to keep an eye on the numerous files that will be generated and prune those you may not want over time.

[Marvin]

On average, I drop off between zero and three times in a two-hour (plus) MP session. Usually, it's my connection which is the problem. But, when it happens, the only warning I get is that the game freezes ... and, by then, it's too late to save. Ergo, if there had been anything I wanted to save in Chat, doing it via a save would mean to save the chat right after the information is displayed ... not waiting until I'm preparing to exit the game.

[Vice]

A couple of options there then. I could set it up so that you could still save out the message log even if the save event isn't completed (so you could write out the message log to a text file while you're still moving). I could also run the save out routine upon exit as a redundant back up, in case of a forced exit.

[Marvin]

I'm not sure that would be necessary (but, then again, I didn't ask the original question). I've disabled auto-save (upon docking) and routinely save after a couple successful contracts ... or, more importantly, after mining 250 units of whatever it is I'm in need of. So it wouldn't be much of a mental chore for me to also save whenever another player passes along a piece of information via Chat.

[Vice]

One more stored message log file will probably be insignificant in the scheme of saving the files as a whole and it will provide an additional measure of backup for those interested in recording the information. I've got the basic system put together and testing. If it continues to check out locally, I'll include it in the next list for the next planned update.

[Marvin]

Will this file only log what the player sees in chat? For example, if IM decides to chat using the Sector option, will only those players in the sector (who see the chat) also have the chat logged to their file ... or will it be more like the host's file, showing all chat messages?

[Vice]

The option will only write the data the local receiving player sees in their message log.