Would you want me to spend time developing something like a 'terrain rover' in the game?

Post by **Vice** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:23 pm

Since this option would be a departure from the spacecraft focus of the game, I'd like to gauge feedback on if players think it would be worth me spending so much time on something not really related to the core element of the game. I've only had a few requests for something like this, so it's not something that's too high on the prototype/development list. But if enough interest is indicated in this poll, it may be something I will look into further.

This would be an additional terrain vehicle option, separate from the terrain walker (only one could be installed and used at a time). It would drive much like a car, likely having a high speed mode using a similar mechanism as the jump jets on the walker. It would not be an extensive car simulation, its form and function would be quite simple and designed more as a basic way to travel across terrain rather quickly using a four wheeled vehicle. It wouldn't really exist for any particular mission/contract or gameplay objective, mostly just as a way to travel around on the ground possibly faster than in a walker and perform many of the same mining, recovery, and exploration options. It would share the same kind of display and readout graphics. The vehicle would use default WASD controls for movement and include a cannon (possibly aimed with the mouse via a turret type mechanism). The control system would also likely allow the player to look around by default with the mouse, much like the terrain walker, but without affecting the direction of the vehicle itself. I would work on implementing a solid four wheel collision system and basic physics set to give the rover a fairly realistic feel, but the focus would remain on spacecraft simulation.

Such a project would take a lot of time on my part, so it would be a while before such an option would become available and I would likely be working on it rather than other things for quite a while. So please let me know what you think of this option and if you think it's worth it for me to spend time on developing, testing, and implementing it.

If you'd prefer to send your feedback and/or vote to me in private, feel free to do so via starwraith.com > contact.

Post by **Marvin** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:28 am

The terrain is rough ... so rough that the TWs have a difficult time transiting mountainous territory. I suspect a terrain rover (TR) would have even a tougher time going from place to place. It would be nice, though, if they could perform the same contracts as a TW ... or if combat contracts were added for both the TW and the TR (and both were capable of climbing steep mountains). Would the TR be a two-man vehicle like ships?

Post by **Vice** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:46 am

Single pilot/driver 4-wheel vehicle. It would be designed to be capable of traversing terrain very effectively, including high clearance and torque.

Starwiz · Post by **Starwiz** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:14 pm

It's an interesting idea, but only if it find a use. If combat or other new contracts for terrain transport will be added, then it will be great. If not, then I think it would not be worth the time and effort.

Serayl · Post by **Serayl** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:22 pm

Eh, I don't really think the rover is a good use of development resources.

From the perspective of land travel/statistics, unless the rover has a higher top speed than a ship which it almost certainly will not, using the ship --> TW combo is still a faster method for travel. TWs can already handle pretty nasty terrain gradients via jump jets as is - the TW's only real weakness in comparison to a theoretical rover is its pitiful flat-ground speed.

Then there's the usefulness angle. If the rover existed in game right now, I doubt I'd find much actual use for it, outside of silly things like doing donuts around other players or seeing if the rover can float/flip over/get air time. In terms of exploring planet surfaces, ground vehicles can't hold a candle to the ship (faster, better field of view from altitude, better radar/targeting systems, can drop sensor towers, can access navmap for waypoints) with the sole exception of not requiring fuel.

I'd prefer to see any resources that would be invested in the rover idea instead be used for adding things to find both planetside and in space, along with finding ways of having the game universe react to the things we players do/having our actions create noticeable consequences. If I wipe out around eighty ALC fighters during the course of a contract [nb. this is possible under the right conditions], something should happen to the local sector/system (and to me!) as a result of having gutted six+ fighter squadrons.

Sinbad · Post by **Sinbad** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:43 pm

I voted "no", but with the qualification that it could be worth it only if there were some unique gameplay/contracts related to the Rover.

i agree with Serayl and Starwiz. Without some unique and compelling reason to use a rover, it would be nothing more than a novelty that would quickly wear off. The current ship+TW combo does the job of exploring planet surfaces very well. In terms of using up your time and resources, I would prefer to see more development of planetary surface objectives, such as alien ruins, hidden caves, pirate base raids.

Post by **Marvin** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:40 pm

And combat contracts for TWs (which would probably require AI-controlled TWs).

Raven0 · Post by **Raven0** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:32 am

While I really like the idea of a rover and asked you about it once before, it's already being done by Elite and other space games will likely take a similar route. You've done very well with your own unique design and your reasoning for it is sound. A rover could be hard to meaningfully integrate into the game. I would more or less agree with Sinbad and Marvin: Rovers sound like fun to have, but would rather see what we already have expanded first or alongside any new developments. Besides, giant robots are better than cars unless those cars transform into giant robots. Just ask Hasbro.
If you're open to suggestions, would you consider adding a targeting system and scaleable radar sphere in the TWs?

As for moving around, impatient players might say they're too slow, but movement speed currently feels pretty well matched to their size. Faster could stretch credibility too much. If I want to get somewhere quickly, I just hop back into the ship.

Combat or other contract objectives would be great, but like Marvin said, that would lead to asking for AI TWs. Probably a nightmare to code. Having said all of the above, it's your game, you get to decide what direction to take, and any new content has the potential to attract more players, but to keep those players will require a little more substance. As you no doubt already know, modern gamers are spoiled by today's feature-loaded games and harder to impress. It's even harder to keep their attention. I remember when 16-bit graphics were just starting to give way to texture mapped polygons...

matchbox2022 · Post by **matchbox2022** » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:01 am

Honestly I'm much more with Marvin & Sinbad on this topic.

I feel like the rover is an already done idea, and that itch can be scratched elsewhere. It'd be better to add more depth and not start on the path NMS took.
More depth into the already high quality stuff that currently exists would enhance the experience and replayablity way more. Even more mission types, or mission types which require some separate steps / depend on each other in a cascade manner, station / city defense or assault contracts (with capital ships to attack /defend as well for such contracts directly against ships and stations since current station builds are impossible to defeat alone or a weapon like a fulcrum torpedo to assist your assault which can be launched from your ship which you only attain through those contracts) more interactive NPCs / choices that could influence their behavior (they may suddenly turn hostile based on what you say to them, or may surrender and dump their cargo..)

More contracts and TW based alien cave exploration or combat contracts...and NPC controlled ships visiting planet surfaces with TWs...that kind of behaviour would add a lot of depth which keeps people coming back to the game and in wonder with making their own path through the game with a little more direction in a sector focus, while keeping the interest and "freeform" of the game at the galactic level high.

A couple more ground based animals or reptiles might be nice

, but that's again more "graphics /novelty" and less gameplay. Gameplay is always better.

Radikal · Post by **Radikal** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:53 pm

If the rover has more cargo capacity then the walker it would be a benefit.
Having a rover in a behemoth game like Star Citizen is a lot of "Wow!", but that would requires huge detailing of planets that Evochron doesn't have and would most likely detract from the "space centric" feel that Evochron is known for.

I would rather see further development on capital ships; such as corrected scale (cap ships should really dwarf the current player frames), different sized transports (some massive and some only about three times size of Starmaster), hanger bays that could be used for repair/refuel on "friendly" cap ships (this would likely require most work since cap ships are almost always moving and I think current hanger functionality is based on stationary-only objects). I personally think these would add more to the spacecraft simulation emphasis of the series.

Post by **DaveK** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:57 pm

Having read through the thread the question that popped into my mind is ... what major difference does the rover off over the TW? I can see the differences as described, for example the rover would be faster, but not fly (which allows the TW to tackle extreme ground). But what would the rover add that is sufficiently different to gameplay that isn't already in the TW (could be implemented probably more easily? For example the TW could be given a speed boost mode, a bigger fuel allowance etc (= a Mk II TW) and I would expect that it would be an easier tweak than developing a new vehicle.

Post by **Marvin** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:29 pm

Sounds like what we really need is a "TW Modification" thread.

matchbox2022 · Post by **matchbox2022** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:57 pm

More interesting explore alien ruins, dig this cave here with weapons, defend this city, etc (other kinds of contracts) that are "completely different" from what you'd ever find with a spaceship would be interesting..not simply a rehash of current "ship" missions...eg. mission to find wildlife only in TW or a planet scan, wouldn't make a lot of sense, but

.... use weapons to dig a cave to recover this alien artifact (which may spawn some kind of strange event or ability), or explore this anomaly under the ocean on this planet, negotiation for the release of a prisoner, or defend /attack this city from /with AI...made only doable with and while in a TW.

Specific and very unique missions / contracts basically, that'd give the TW a lot more value currently in game than just a novelty / better mining tool. As far as it holding more, being faster etc....Im really impartial to that, would not matter to me.

If more combat is done via TW though, I'd like to see it have the ability to fire "a" missile, and perhaps only have the flarebeam (not have the ships overpowered weapons magically on the TW)

Post by **DaveK** » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:33 am

It would be cool to have a cave buried in a planet (or a moon) with the entrance at or near the surface and so needing to be found and then cleared. Since it would be planet side it could be explored in a TW - even cooler. It would also be cool to have something worthwhile to find in each of the asteroid caves, even if the caves themselves were harder to locate ... or is the contents being saved for quests?

Perhaps templates for otherwise unobtainable equipment (like an Excalibur that could fire 2, 4 or all 8 missiles at a time - I'm sure someone mentioned that a while ago )

The thing about 'alien' ruins is that there are Humans, Vonari and LGM (aka Actarians). An Elder Race is rumoured but virtually no evidence of it exists, so ... who created the ruins?

Perhaps a quest can seed evidence of the forerunner race with modified city modules to simulate ruins? Any comments Marvin?

ps - the devil doesn't appear to be working ...

...

Post by **Marvin** » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:08 am

DaveK wrote:The thing about 'alien' ruins is that there are Humans, Vonari and LGM (aka Actarians). An Elder Race is rumoured but virtually no evidence of it exists, so ... who created the ruins? Perhaps a quest can seed evidence of the forerunner race with modified city modules to simulate ruins? Any comments Marvin?

No ruins that I can find. There is the cosmic computer, though. I guess somebody had to build that.

Serayl · Post by **Serayl** » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:53 am

DaveK wrote:It would be cool to have a cave buried in a planet (or a moon) with the entrance at or near the surface and so needing to be found and then cleared. Since it would be planet side it could be explored in a TW - even cooler. It would also be cool to have something worthwhile to find in each of the asteroid caves, even if the caves themselves were harder to locate ... or is the contents being saved for quests? Perhaps templates for otherwise unobtainable equipment (like an Excalibur that could fire 2, 4 or all 8 missiles at a time - I'm sure someone mentioned that a while ago )

The thing about 'alien' ruins is that there are Humans, Vonari and LGM (aka Actarians). An Elder Race is rumoured but virtually no evidence of it exists, so ... who created the ruins? Perhaps a quest can seed evidence of the forerunner race with modified city modules to simulate ruins? Any comments Marvin?

ps - the devil doesn't appear to be working ... ...

The main challenge I feel with adding caves is the complexity in constructing a system that's interesting to explore, versus having a single layout dropped whereever Vice sees fit. I thought about whether it'd be best for Vice to build modular "caves" by taking the existing station module models/system and repurposing them such that it lets players fly inside those models, where the station connection points would allow for various pieces to be plugged together in whatever configuration is desired. Given that it'd use the existing system, it could also be used to develop space-side derelicts similar to the existing asteroid caves only with more possibilities.

Another facet worth thinking about - if there is super cool, unique stuff to be found, what use would this loot have? For example, if there were some combat performance enhancements (in whatever form, be it missile/gun upgrades, new equipment, unique shipyard addons, etc), I feel there should be a semi-direct application that isn't simply having the power to kill an NPC in ten shots versus eleven. Some sort of new challenge(s) ought to come along to warrant such enhancements; it isn't that you would need these theoretical things in order to win, only that it would make it somewhat easier (less time consuming/dangerous).

FotonCat · Post by **FotonCat** » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:21 pm

Definitely, no. If rover will be even more useless thing than TW, it doesn't even worth a minute to spend on such thing. It would better for developer to focus on more useful in-game things, so, I've voted 'No'.
Thank you for providing an opporunity for us to dissuade you from this dubious activity, Vice.

theforce media · Post by **theforce media** » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:10 am

Space, space, space!!!!
Perhaps include a basic version, with high modification ability for the community.
But you Sir, space, space, space.

YaroslavUSSR · Post by **YaroslavUSSR** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:11 pm

I have voted "No". TW is all-terrain combat vehical and it already has everything I want to explore planets. Vice, if it is possible, please, add combat missions for TW. It is very difficult to meet online for ground PvP in TW due to small number of active online players/job/family/time zones/etc. Also, I would like to add that flying monsters are great, but ocean monsters would be better as TW allows player to explore sea-bed.

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