Proposing an alternate form of high speed travel.

[Oblivion Wolf]

This is a discussion that has been going around a lot on the forums lately and I thought I would throw my two cents in. This is an idea that has been running around in my head for a while and I wanted to put it out there and see what other people think.

One of my favourite things about Evochron is the fact that just about anything we do in the game has a learning curve and requires an investment in the skill set, and keeping with that theme I’m proposing an idea that requires a large amount of it.

My idea is the Gravitational Slingshot! Now this would require Vice’s input as he is the only one who knows what’s going on under the hood of legacy and whether it is at all possible as well as feasible. I got the idea one night whilst I was messing around orbiting a star, I think the fastest speed I got was somewhere in the 35k area (been about 6 months since I did this). I got really happy about this thinking I could maintain this speed if I broke orbit but unfortunately not. As long as I aimless sped around the orbit of this star I was able to maintain this speed, but the moment I broke orbit I would slowly loose speed back to the 8k mark. So I got to thinking if we could maintain this speed on exiting orbit of the star, it would be a great way to get around the galaxy at very high speeds. The one caveat being that the “high speed” would be anywhere between 100k to 160k, the 160k being about twice as fast what we travel with our fulcrum drives. This would equate to a 1000 sectors going from the 40 minute mark it is now to around 20 minutes, thus 3000 sectors would take an hour. That is a lot of ground you can cover in an hour.

I see this as a high level skill that would require a large amount of investment from players. To facilitate this some ideas I have are:

1. The slip angle to enter and exit the star’s gravity would have to be very specific and you would still need to know the co-ords of where you were headed to help plot your exit point from orbiting the star, perhaps this slip angle takes you very close to the star’s deadly core.
2. Even though you know where you are headed, aiming at something 100’s or even 1000’s of sectors out won’t be perfect, it will require you having to adjust your course if you happen across a new star in your journey or using your jump drive if you are a few sectors out.
3. It may require a very specific and rare energy source to propel the ship to that level of speed, thus it would take lots of preparation and planning for the slingshot trips out into the black. This energy source should also be carried underwing thus making a consumable.
4. A gyroscope to indicate the rotation of a star, thus effecting which way you enter orbit as going the wrong way will actually slow you down, or where specifically in the star is best to initiate your slingshot.
5. Ships would have to be specifically setup for this kind of flying, options include maximum cooling or heat dissipation core or a shield module to help with the heat of the star. A module that routes the underwing fuel to the engines. Having to run full armour and energy cores. In other words it takes dedication to fly this way.

So have at it everyone, poke it with a stick, knock holes into it, point out flaws I haven’t seen. For instance I don’t know if the game engine can handle loading and unloading sectors every 1.5 seconds or so as you fly through space at such a high speed.

Ps if anybody is able to manage higher speeds in orbit and maintain that speed on exit, you are a god amongst pilots, please share your secrets with me.

For anybody interested the very loose math of the speeds, it roughly works out to this, please note this is not to the exact second, but is pretty close within a minute or two.

Current Speed: 83k over 1000 sectors = 40 minutes
100k = over 1000 sectors = 33 minutes
120k = over 1000 sectors = 27 minutes
140k = over 1000 sectors = 23 minutes
150k = over 1000 sectors = 21.5 minutes
160k = over 1000 sectors = 20 minutes
200k = over 1000 sectors = 16.6 minutes

Personally I think 150/160 is just about the right amount. Although now with the jump caster available, this may now be a moot point.

[Serayl]

There's one tiny wrinkle in going so very, very fast with the existing game engine. It'll take you your entire fuel capacity just to bleed your ridiculous amount of momentum away, unless you use your jump drive. At that point, it's likely about as fast as using a high-class jump drive. The only direct benefit to slingshotting is saving fuel, outside of the satisfaction of the challenge. By conventional means, about the fastest I've gone drifting is around 8400, which is pretty damn fast. You can cross a sector in about ten minutes going that fast.

Also, good luck if you happen to crash into anything at all, since you will die instantly and there is no way you can avoid a collision.

I'm pretty sure the game can handle loading sectors at that speed, your PC's hardware notwithstanding of course. In deep space it wouldn't be a big deal at all, in sectors with significantly more objects it would be a problem.

[Oblivion Wolf]

Using your Fulcrum Drive to "break" tends to be most efficient way of stopping in general. I myself never bothered with thrusters or reverse afterburners once I exceed 4k, I set my speed to 0 set my nav marker on where I am and then jump. This would be the only possible means of slowing from such high speeds, Vice may also have to allow us to bind a button to set the nav marker. That being said if you had to react really quickly you could always alt jump.

As you mentioned 8400 is pretty much where you will top out (give or take a little), at that speed it takes you roughly 24 seconds to cross a sector which is pretty descent. But that's about the same time it takes the mantis (with the cool down) to jump 10 sectors.

[matchbox2022]

Gravitational Slingshots I believe work on stealing rotational momentum from planets in order for you to have a greater speed coming out than you did going in. You always slow down and will never be going as fast as you'd be right at the star.
That said. I have managed to get into relatively stable orbits around stars, so its perfectly doable.....though you'd need some kind of super shielding / hull consumable to not die being that close....there should definitely be some sound effects too.

I can see this being a good idea if you could have something on your HUD to help guide you through the process....and it could actually work....but the stars gravity would have to go...WAY WAY WAY up from where it is now.

A better idea may be to have some kind of equipment which allows you to have a "mini" fulcrum jump, kicking your speed up to those levels...call it a Higgs Compensator (since it would reduce your mass )...very much so like you see with Arvoch Alliance, but maybe have the sound effects and at least the colour look different. Maybe some fancy effects added that make objects and space look warped around you as you're doing it.

[Marvin]

but the stars gravity would have to go...WAY WAY WAY up from where it is now.

And, if that were changed, quite a few other parts of the program would need to be changed ... including a couple of the quests.

[DaveK]

There's one tiny wrinkle in going so very, very fast with the existing game engine. It'll take you your entire fuel capacity just to bleed your ridiculous amount of momentum away, unless you use your jump drive. At that point, it's likely about as fast as using a high-class jump drive. The only direct benefit to slingshotting is saving fuel, outside of the satisfaction of the challenge. By conventional means, about the fastest I've gone drifting is around 8400, which is pretty damn fast. You can cross a sector in about ten minutes going that fast.

Also, good luck if you happen to crash into anything at all, since you will die instantly and there is no way you can avoid a collision.

I'm pretty sure the game can handle loading sectors at that speed, your PC's hardware notwithstanding of course. In deep space it wouldn't be a big deal at all, in sectors with significantly more objects it would be a problem.

I travel into deep space with a jump drive and burn fuel at around one unit per sector. That limits the distance I can travel before I need to refuel and refuelling becomes very very difficult beyond around 20K sectors for a variety of reasons. Getting to 20K sectors beyond the 20K limit drifting at 8K would take 140 days real time flying ... at 24K it's only 47 days real time

I slingshot around a star and can keep going at (say) 24K - I go off for coffee or even a (long) holiday and when I get back I've gone much further than the 20K fuelled travel limit ... I can't manoeuvre and if I stop (by using the jump to the same point manoeuvre) I can't get going again unless I'm near a star (20K sector issue again). For pure explorers (I just need to see what's out there!) and record chasers (In EM I went 300K sectors out from Sapphire using deploy refuellers!) and pilots who like bragging rights for really difficult things to do (I can slingshot across the Evoverse) it would be a great opportunity. I'd certainly like to give it a try if it becomes possible. It'd be a very cool experience and take my callsign (Incoming) to a whole new level.

But since I can't see it as other than a one way trip, it's not really a practical method of travel for a hardworking merc. If you stay within the core, gated jumps get you across the Evoverse in minutes. Mantis drives get you to ungated stars in under an hour so slingshotting with its inherent inaccuracies isn't so attractive. But then again, the fun of orbiting a star in a stable orbit is just that it's not easy but we can do it! Slingshotting would join the list of star orbiting, jumping through BH's, flying through a command module at >5000 and the like

I like the idea, and it sounds that all (!!!) Vice would need to do is stop our ships slowing down to the 'max' speed they can travel at (though there are good reasons that there is a max speed mentioned in the TechyGuide ... but the TechyGuide isn't carved into stone )

[YaroslavUSSR]

I like the idea, and it sounds that all (!!!) Vice would need to do is stop our ships slowing down to the 'max' speed they can travel at

It was exactly in Evochron Legends and Renegades. I entered the warp at speed over 4k and exited from warp at the same speed. It was very useful when I was flying through Thuban where everyone wanted to kill me. But in EM we got IDS level adjusting and the speed always decreased from over 9k to your max ship speed. I am voting for slingshotting.

[DaveK]

A better idea may be to have some kind of equipment which allows you to have a "mini" fulcrum jump, kicking your speed up to those levels...call it a Higgs Compensator (since it would reduce your mass )...very much so like you see with Arvoch Alliance, but maybe have the sound effects and at least the colour look different. Maybe some fancy effects added that make objects and space look warped around you as you're doing it.

Hmmm. This thread started as using real physics to slingshot around stars - a cool and fun idea in it's own right and a skillful challenge to pull off. Now we've identified some probs we're moving on to other ways of going faster. Gated systems allow tranversing the Evoverse in minutes and jump drives allow the getting to uncharted places in less than an hour. BH jumping and wild WH's can get you to out of the way places virtually instantly. What does kicking your speed up to jump speeds ... which would then slow down to your max set speed ... give us in terms of gameplay? Or am I missing something?

[Nigel_Strange]

You can use gravitational slinging in reality. If you look at how the Voyager craft made it to the edge of the solar system (and beyond) you have an excellent example of how gravity can be used to navigate within a solar system. However, the trick is more complicated. EL does not really use orbital flight dynamics, and the gravitational pull of planets and stars is more of a linear force, rather than an acceleration.

Anyway, the way gravitational slingshots work is dependent on the movement of the body that you're slingshotting around. For example, if you are approaching Jupiter from behind, it will pull you forward, towards it, but then it is still moving away. In the end, it has accelerated your craft just enough to move you faster, and you have stolen some of it's momentum (so it moves a little slower, though infinitesimally so). It also changes your course, so instead of going straight toward the star you were pointing at, you are now moving about 30 degrees off.

You can also use planets to slow down in the same way, but if you have to pass the planet, let it slow you down, and then allow the planet to leave the area after this happens so you don't get pulled into its orbit.

The key, though, is that if Jupiter didn't move, you would simply be pulled into Jupiter's orbit. Or, you would have to expend a lot of energy to leave its orbit. Ultimately, it is like going into and out of a funnel: you don't get more energy out of it than went in, unless the funnel is moving. It's Jupiter's movement away from you that allows you to steal some momentum without being pulled in.

In Evochron, none of the celestial bodies move...so...not going to happen.

[Oblivion Wolf]

Awe common Mr Strange.... We just need to fudge the dice a little

[DaveK]

Thanks for the clear explanation Nigel.

[matchbox2022]

You guys try out the jump caster yet?

[Marvin]

Yup. It's like ... indispensable.

[DaveK]

Only played with it a bit. Initial exploring will still be by jump drive, but when something interesting and worth revisiting is discovered it will be invaluable - half way to having the ability to create gates without the danger of littering the Evoverse. I've not had the opportunity to try out the group use yet but it sounds good for MP.

In terms of use, as long as you remember to set coordinates before deployment, it's a doddle. The only thing that might be a bore is working out coordinates when you're not travelling directly NSEWU or D - a bit of calculation will needed. A spreadsheet or even a table of number of sectors to add would sort it though (after the initial prep work!)

Along with the return of the Indie option, it's a great addition that adds a lot to gameplay.

[Marvin]

I use it for star systems already discovered (like those found while doing one of the quests), placing the coordinates in my log. That way, IM can set up its own home world in an otherwise out-of-the-way location and get there from gated space rather quickly.

[Oblivion Wolf]

Updated the original post with some of the speed calculations. Even with the jump caster implemented it could still be crazy fun to zip around the verse in this fashion. It may require some hand waving and a little "strange" science near the center of stars to get it to function though.

If this was implemented you just know slingshot racing would happen!