EL: Control Suggestion - Steering Widget

[primedragoon]

I'm uncertain if you've played Elite Dangerous Vice, but the game has this little thing called a steering widget. A triangle that points to the direction your input from the mouse is going, and fades/shrinks/and disappears at the center of the screen. So instead of having a mouse cursor all over the place on my screen, everything could be nice, tight, and neat in the center. Been looking for a screen shot here, but sadly coming up a little empty here. Seems most people either use a controller or a joystick setup, or all the official material does. Hard to find a screenshot of that widget. Impossible actually, holy crap.

Alright well its pretty basic anyways.

o

^Thats a center dot.

^
o

^--- That's you pitching upwards.

o

v

^--- Thats you Pitching downwards

o >

^--- Extreme right yaw

< o

^---- Extreme left yaw

o>

^--- Minimum input/almost no input distance.

o

^---- Again, neutral point.

It'd be really, really cool. And appreciated.
Might also prevent clicking out of the game window aye?

[Vice]

I think I understand what you are describing. Although I probably wouldn't give up or change the pointer for the 'Mouse Point' mode as it's a vital element to actually point the ship where to go. The pointer is also important in all other control modes for direct target selection and menu selection. And adding more indicators to the central region of the HUD might introduce obstruction/clutter (especially when inputting control to line up on a target).

There is also already a control input gauge, a master display for all/any control input (labelled 'Control' to the left of the compass). It displays what you are inputting with the mouse (or any control device) while the 'Thruster' indicator on the right shows the output result. So you can get a detailed visual overview of both your control input and the resulting ship response output from those two indicators.

There is additionally the FPM (flight path marker) which also points to where you ship is actually flying. It's also a vital visual aid that would likely be the most important to the player in terms of gauging flight course... without any additional visual obstruction at least.

Certainly open to comments/input from others though. I would just suspect that the visual indicators and display systems for control and flight course are fairly detailed and complete at this point for many.

[primedragoon]

I've always found keeping track of the mouse cursor in a mouse follow mode to be, well, next to impossible if the cursor that's going all over the screen isn't also where my fire is going. With something like Freelancer it was ok, and with X3 Terran Conflict I don't mind, because that's where the fire is going. So I can pay attention too it, know my ship is going that way, and still track onto my target. The way it is in Evochron, I need to point my ship at a specific point, while also keeping track of where the mouse pointer is with my peripheral vision, to be able to aim at something accurately. I suspect a lot of people don't care because they use a controller or a joystick, or honestly probably a Hotas. I'd be using one too if I had the money and my last one weren't stolen. And then I wouldn't be bringing this up at all. But for a mouse and keyboard user, having my steering indicator in the same area where I'm pumping fire is just a quality of life thing, I see both where I am steering and firing. Maybe if the mouse cursor was neon violet and super easy to track, even with peripheral vision, I might feel differently.

Anyways, that's my take on that issue. So I'm probably going to either play with direct mouse input to ship. (Not usually my favorite but I recall it worked okay with Mercenary.) Or I'm just gonna hold off and wait until I can afford another Hotas I suppose. That might be a little while, the difference between the canadian and the artificially pumped american dollar are currently setting the price of a decent low end hotas at about 240 dollars.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... -_-Product

There's 160 off the web, but I don't have a credit card to order online. Cut that thing up ages ago and kept my arse out of trouble. Here, here's the only place I've found them in Vancouver. (Which is where I live, I ain't shy!)

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX11865

220, so I was about 20 off. I could walk down to that place, but 220? I bought the first one at like 140. I'm not paying almost double for the same object omg. x.x The US has to stop printing extra money eventually right? I don't like being pushed towards being a poverty nation because my next door neighbor is cheating and totting guns.

Anyways back on topic. Oh oh, yeah you're first comment there Vice. Give up or change the pointer, no I'm not suggesting you get rid of it or change it. I'd request this as an additional input mode for those who prefer it. I know you aren't going to make weapons fire towards where the cursor is at, so this was the best compromised suggestion I could think of. And obviously, if you hit alt the widget would have to become passive and the cursor would need to return. Well, alt, or went into a menu. Or docked at a station/ect. Heck, if you could 'constrain the mouse cursor to a certain circular radius at screen center' and then release it from that when you hit alt, you'd basically have the same thing. It just wouldn't fade to nothing at the center of the screen, it'd sit there merged to the crosshair like it is now.

Could we have a constrain cursor to radius from screen center to a certain value? Say between a half inch to two inches on screen? Wait that would limit the turning radius of your ship unless you adjusted for the input. *sigh*

I tried!

[Serayl]

I'm a mouse and keyboard player. The only time I find the cursor gets in the way is when I'm flying in a straight line and I want to see what's behind the main gunsight. Even then, I can hold down Alt and take a peek.

I've probably gotten too used to way Evochron handles the cursor though, so I'm not a good representative of mouse/KB players.

[Vice]

The way it is in Evochron, I need to point my ship at a specific point, while also keeping track of where the mouse pointer is with my peripheral vision, to be able to aim at something accurately.

Interesting. But even though the weapons don't aim where the pointer is at, it doesn't mean the visual reference is deleted or altered in any way. And you technically don't need to point your ship at a specific point, you only need the target in the MDTS circle for the weapons to aim themselves without any required manual control (if desired and with the MDTS on).

But for a mouse and keyboard user, having my steering indicator in the same area where I'm pumping fire is just a quality of life thing, I see both where I am steering and firing. Maybe if the mouse cursor was neon violet and super easy to track, even with peripheral vision, I might feel differently.

Many do use HOTAS/joystick or gamepad, but a large portion also use mouse and keyboard. Having weapons aim at a mouse pointer would also displace control consistency, potentially giving an aiming advantage to mouse players (as you noted later). But if a visual reference is key for you, it is possible to dramatically change the mouse pointer via custom images, including neon violet if you like. The mouse pointer for flight control is also kept separate from the menu selection mode mouse pointer, so you can keep the menu pointer and change the flight mode pointer specifically/separately.

Could we have a constrain cursor to radius from screen center to a certain value? Say between a half inch to two inches on screen? Wait that would limit the turning radius of your ship unless you adjusted for the input. *sigh*

And that is a valiant effort Your interest in the direction flight control mode with the mouse might be the best interim option at the moment.

Hopefully, the HOTAS you want will come down in price, that does seem like a lot for an X52, wow.

[primedragoon]

If you think that'd bad, I'm specifically aiming at the oldest cheapest model because of the current crazy prices. That being said, work has been tight and money has been tight for a while. What can you do. I'm also starting to think the only possible way I'm ever going to get the space sim I actually want to play is by writing the thing myself. The idea of one manning a 5 to 10 year project isn't joyous to me, sadly. Also, the widget handing the advantage to players over joystick users is a bit of a pile mate. I can turn the sensitivity up on my mouse and put the cursor anywhere on the screen as fast as my brain can handle it, and with the mouse cursor, piloting the ship is not longer about how the ship reacts. Its 'where do I put the mouse on the screen to do this' and memorize that position for when you need it next time. So, potentially, a mouse user could always grab the advantage. However, in standard play, the Joystick user would have the advantage more often. Because normally he'd have to cover less distance for the same input, and indeed one of these users will have mapped their controls to their fingertips. Where-as a keyboard jockey has a keyboard and movement to cover. Y being gunsight targetting in particular is kind of an awkward reach. I contest that point. I'd say the widget would be more equal to the joystickers, because then they'd be covering an area inside the same radius to maneuver their ship. Plus then maneuvering your ship feels more like maneuvering your ship, but then maybe I'm the only one that feels that divorce a little.

Put a joystick on top of your mousepad. Rotate the joystick around its full circular radius, measuring where max input is from the bottom of your hand/lowest portion of the joystick you interact with. Then go pilot a ship in mouse cursor mode, without moving your mouse outside of that radius on the pad. If ya gotta, joystick be winnin yo.

Edit - And if you just increase the sensitivity then you take my whole point on that yeah?

Edit Edit - And the controller guys would have more advantage than the joystick guys still when it comes to reaction time. I don't care if you gotta mouse or a joystick, ain't neither of those things swapping input directions as quickly as a controller.

[Marvin]

I'm also starting to think the only possible way I'm ever going to get the space sim I actually want to play is by writing the thing myself.

Oddly enough, that's exactly what Vice did. He wrote the game he wanted to play ... and has been perfecting the game he wants to play ever since.

[Vice]

Also, the widget handing the advantage to players over joystick users is a bit of a pile mate.
...
Edit - And if you just increase the sensitivity then you take my whole point on that yeah?

Edit Edit - And the controller guys would have more advantage than the joystick guys still when it comes to reaction time. I don't care if you gotta mouse or a joystick, ain't neither of those things swapping input directions as quickly as a controller.

Not really sure what counter-point you are trying to make there. The 'advantage' I was referring to was responding to what you said in the quote from you I included. It isn't rate of movement or sensitivity response or any widget, it's auto-aiming the weapons at the pointer that was the issue.

Rate of response/sensitivity is adjustable with any control mode with any control device within the game. Aiming advantage had to do with aiming weapons with a pointer manually on the screen.

[primedragoon]

Ah, no worries then, I misunderstood where the remark was directed. Also with your aiming circle size yeah, mouse point aiming would be crazy. -_-

Edit - Having been using the direct input mode for a little bit now, I'd advocate that IT be replaced with the widget suggestion. Because, mouse cursor follow? Constant input. Joystick? Constant input. Controller? Constant input. Direct input mouse? Lift my mouse all the friggin time losing input. Grrrrrrr.